Why is this straight Republican in favor of SSM?

Pandora said:
right now nothing. But my son was told that condoms are safe and if your going to have sex wear condoms so you are safe. He was in the 6th grade, far to early to be talking to him about this especially without consulting parents. He of course came home and told me, I spent some time on trojans website and other condom websites and got the stats, brought them to the teacher and said please stop telling my son condoms are safe. they are zero percent effective against herpies and only somewhat effective against hiv exc. blah blah the list went on. I asked him that he let me know when he was going to be talking about this stuff with my son so I would know what is going on and asked him to let the kids know the things condoms do not protect you from and the other things they dont protect you fully from and to please stop calling it safe sex, I didnt mind safer but please dont lie to them and say its safe. He refused everyting I asked. So we had a year long battle.

If he wants to tell his own kids that its his right, its sad for his kid who might get herpies but its his right as a parent. It should be my right also.

In my daughers 2d grade class they were going to read the "heather has two mommys" book. There was a big backlash and they didnt. I am glad they didnt. This is a topic parents need to have with thier kids not the school teachers.

Though I do think there are rare cases where the school may need to have the chat.

but that isnt what this thread was about. PLC1 made the thread about a straight republican who thought same sex marriage should be legal because he married a homosexual. Part of the topic was how religous people need to change and be mroe accepting so homosexual people can feel more comfortable.

I think its wrong to attack or be mean to anyone because you dont like their life style but I sure as hell draw the line at being expected to changing your spirtual faith or religous belief so another person can feel more happy or comfortable.
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Don't schools in Oregon have to notify parents when they're going to discuss this kind of thing, and don't the parents have a right to keep them out of class? They do here in California.

But again you are doing like PLC1, he somehow couldnt seem to tell me it was ok for me to have faith and that I should be tolerated just as I tolerate others whos lifestyles do not agree with my own.
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I'm not sure what I posted that led you to believe that I didn't think it was OK for you to have faith that should be tolerated. My philosophy is what it has always been, live and let live. So long as your liberty doesn't impinge on mine, you should have a right to believe whatever you want.
 
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PLC1 said:
Don't schools in Oregon have to notify parents when they're going to discuss this kind of thing, and don't the parents have a right to keep them out of class? They do here in California.



I'm not sure what I posted that led you to believe that I didn't think it was OK for you to have faith that should be tolerated. My philosophy is what it has always been, live and let live. So long as your liberty doesn't impinge on mine, you should have a right to believe whatever you want.
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No Oregon or at least my county does not have any rules like that.


What lead me to believe you must think its the person of faith to have to do the changing started with the first post in the thread that suggests that we have to accept the life styles and it went on from there, every time I asked you if the non religous person should learn to tolerate the person of faith too you would come back with another question about what my faith believed. I dont think it matters if the person is a catholic or muslim or baptist, they all have rights just like the non religous person.


My personal faith tells me that I can not accept a multitude of life styles as good, right, normal or healthy. But its not my place to tell people what is good, right, normal or healthy for them. I just know its not for me or my family.

Your last post explains it much better and I agree with you on it. I dont want anyones religion shoved down my throat and I dont want anyones secularism shoved down my throat either. and in return I wont shove mine down anyones throat.
 
well it does say in the NT to spread the good news that the Messiah has risen.


The OT has Johah going to Niniva (spelling) to tell them about the One True God exc.

So it does say to tell people, but it also says dont throw your pearls to swine, in other words dont waste your time on those who have hard hearts to the news.

and in Rev it says let those who wish to do evil do evil and let those who wish to do good do good exc. I take that as mind your own business :)
 
Pandora said:
No Oregon or at least my county does not have any rules like that.


What lead me to believe you must think its the person of faith to have to do the changing started with the first post in the thread that suggests that we have to accept the life styles and it went on from there, every time I asked you if the non religous person should learn to tolerate the person of faith too you would come back with another question about what my faith believed. I dont think it matters if the person is a catholic or muslim or baptist, they all have rights just like the non religous person.


My personal faith tells me that I can not accept a multitude of life styles as good, right, normal or healthy. But its not my place to tell people what is good, right, normal or healthy for them. I just know its not for me or my family.

Your last post explains it much better and I agree with you on it. I dont want anyones religion shoved down my throat and I dont want anyones secularism shoved down my throat either. and in return I wont shove mine down anyones throat.
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Exactly. I think we have far more points of agreement than otherwise.

Oregonians need to pass a law that parents are notified when sex education is to take place, and that they have the right to opt out of it. Here, we have to get permission slips signed before and "human reproduction" kinds of classes. Very few parents ever refuse to sign, but there are some, and they have a right to decide what their children are or are not taught.

Having taught 4th. grade, 8 and 9 year olds for the most part, I have often been amazed by how much they do know about the subject. Kids are exposed to a lot of things at an early age, things that they aren't ready to fully comprehend. Someone needs to teach them values and instill a sense of what is OK and what is not OK. Their parents are the ones to do that, IMO, not the school, but not every parent takes on that responsibility.
 
PLC1 said:
Exactly. I think we have far more points of agreement than otherwise.

Oregonians need to pass a law that parents are notified when sex education is to take place, and that they have the right to opt out of it. Here, we have to get permission slips signed before and "human reproduction" kinds of classes. Very few parents ever refuse to sign, but there are some, and they have a right to decide what their children are or are not taught.

Having taught 4th. grade, 8 and 9 year olds for the most part, I have often been amazed by how much they do know about the subject. Kids are exposed to a lot of things at an early age, things that they aren't ready to fully comprehend. Someone needs to teach them values and instill a sense of what is OK and what is not OK. Their parents are the ones to do that, IMO, not the school, but not every parent takes on that responsibility.
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My daughter who is in the 4th grade said a 5th grader told her they are learning to put condoms on cucumbers this year. I have no idea if its true or not but told my daughter to just ask to be taken to the office if they ever talk about anything she is not comfortable with and to always let me know when topics like obama or sex come up.

I am willing to teach her what ever she needs or wants to know. We have had very deep discusions about all sorts of sexual topics.
 
Pandora said:
My daughter who is in the 4th grade said a 5th grader told her they are learning to put condoms on cucumbers this year. I have no idea if its true or not but told my daughter to just ask to be taken to the office if they ever talk about anything she is not comfortable with and to always let me know when topics like obama or sex come up.

I am willing to teach her what ever she needs or wants to know. We have had very deep discusions about all sorts of sexual topics.
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I taught for 38 years, and never once was asked to show kids how to put condoms on cucumbers. Before accepting that story at face value, I'd ask the teacher or the principal. I have heard stories about condoms and cucumbers and bananas, but I really think they are just that, stories.

Lots of kids in pubic schools get their family values and human sexuality education from other kids, and from watching the actions of their parents. Not everyone takes time to talk to their own kids about that subject, or much of anything else. Experienced teachers have no trouble picking out which kids are talked to, read to, and taught at home and which are not. The ones who are not keep getting more and more numerous.
 
PLC1 said:
I taught for 38 years, and never once was asked to show kids how to put condoms on cucumbers. Before accepting that story at face value, I'd ask the teacher or the principal. I have heard stories about condoms and cucumbers and bananas, but I really think they are just that, stories.

Lots of kids in pubic schools get their family values and human sexuality education from other kids, and from watching the actions of their parents. Not everyone takes time to talk to their own kids about that subject, or much of anything else. Experienced teachers have no trouble picking out which kids are talked to, read to, and taught at home and which are not. The ones who are not keep getting more and more numerous.
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I agree the cucumber is probably a grade school tale. That is why I have not gone to the school to confront them.

Things are different now than they were when I was a grade school or middle school kid. I know for a fact the middle school gives out condoms. I find them all the time on the playground of where I work. The 6th graders have no idea what to do with these so they just open the packages and throw them around the playground. Its half way funny.

But I dont think they are doing this in grade school ...................... yet.
 
Pandora said:
I agree the cucumber is probably a grade school tale. That is why I have not gone to the school to confront them.

Things are different now than they were when I was a grade school or middle school kid. I know for a fact the middle school gives out condoms. I find them all the time on the playground of where I work. The 6th graders have no idea what to do with these so they just open the packages and throw them around the playground. Its half way funny.

But I dont think they are doing this in grade school ...................... yet.
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Let's hope not.

Another thing I was never asked to do, not even in high school, was hand out condoms. Personally, I don't think the school should be in the business of dispensing condoms. The school nurse might counsel kids, and maybe advise them to go buy their own, but handing out condoms? What is next, birth control pills?

Things have changed, and how! When I was in high school, condoms came with a disclaimer that said, "For the prevention of disease only," and were not displayed openly in drugstores. They were for "marital relations" at that time (1950s)

When I started teaching, kids weren't really aware of sexual things as they are now. Of course, puberty does bring powerful feelings, along with a lot of curiosity. The difference seems to be much less curiosity and no longer much incentive to control those feelings.

When 90% of the sitcoms on TV revolve around sexual innuendo, and depict adults jumping from bed to bed with no consequences, what can we expect?
 
PLC1 said:
Let's hope not.

Another thing I was never asked to do, not even in high school, was hand out condoms. Personally, I don't think the school should be in the business of dispensing condoms. The school nurse might counsel kids, and maybe advise them to go buy their own, but handing out condoms? What is next, birth control pills?

Things have changed, and how! When I was in high school, condoms came with a disclaimer that said, "For the prevention of disease only," and were not displayed openly in drugstores. They were for "marital relations" at that time (1950s)

When I started teaching, kids weren't really aware of sexual things as they are now. Of course, puberty does bring powerful feelings, along with a lot of curiosity. The difference seems to be much less curiosity and no longer much incentive to control those feelings.

When 90% of the sitcoms on TV revolve around sexual innuendo, and depict adults jumping from bed to bed with no consequences, what can we expect?
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You are older than I am but things have changed a whole lot just since I was a middle school kid. No one gave us condoms till high school!

I know that some of our kindergarten teachers through out the district read the book heather has two mommies and the two princes. I dont think its right but I dont see anyway to stop it. All I can do is explain the liberal agenda to my daughter when this sort of stuff happens to her.

You should look up some of the Calif state laws in reguards to children, you would be amazed!
 
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Pandora said:
You are older than I am but things have changed a whole lot just since I was a middle school kid. No one gave us condoms till high school!

I know that some of our kindergarten teachers through out the district read the book heather has two mommies and the two princes. I dont think its right but I dont see anyway to stop it. All I can do is explain the liberal agenda to my daughter when this sort of stuff happens to her.
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Again, Oregon really should have laws requiring parents to be notified in advance when such things are being taught in school. I can see where a lot of parents would object to having alternative lifestyles being taught, especially at such an early age.

California does have such laws.

Meanwhile, involved parents can keep tabs on what is being taught. Most parents are not involved, however.

Pandora said:
You should look up some of the Calif state laws in reguards to children, you would be amazed!
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Such as??
 
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