Why is this straight Republican in favor of SSM?

Werbung:
Zylstra said:
No, they don't. Let we who are a part of this world worry about how to do things in this world.
Click to expand...

Actually, yes they do.

Not sure where you are from but here in the states we still have freedom of religion. It may not be for long but for now we have it and people have rights to it.



this is a great example of how only one side is expected to accept the other. Zylstra obviously has no desire to tolerate someone else religous freedoms even when that person has no problem with them doing what ever they do as long as I am able to keep my right to believe what I feel is important religously and spiritually.
 
Pandora said:
I am perfectly ok with those first two you named

but I think its wrong to try and make people give up their own religious ideas because someone else doesnt like it.

people who believe in the scriptures have every right to say this isnt right

now not thinking its right doesnt mean they can be mean or hurtful or hateful but they have a right to beleive it is morally wrong.

if there is a push to force people to accept lifestyles against what they believe then I say that is wickedly wrong.

I do not think it is morally right, but I dont think many things are morally right. It doesnt mean I have the right to be mean or hateful about it, but I reserve the right to think we as humans are way off track morally. Myself included!
Click to expand...

I think they are not pushing to force you to accept, but they can ask and hope that people would learn to do that. The Rights aspect, like it or not I dont think they care , its about there rights as people,,,you are always free to have your view of it, so long as they still have them,
 
Pandora said:
Actually, yes they do.

Not sure where you are from but here in the states we still have freedom of religion. It may not be for long but for now we have it and people have rights to it.
Click to expand...

They're not a part of this world

they need to go back home and be quiet

they've messed things up enough
 
pocketfullofshells said:
I think they are not pushing to force you to accept, but they can ask and hope that people would learn to do that. The Rights aspect, like it or not I dont think they care , its about there rights as people,,,you are always free to have your view of it, so long as they still have them,
Click to expand...

People who do not accept certian things based on their religious and spiritual beliefs are doing it because of those religous and spiritual beliefs. Its not a matter of learning to accept it.

If a person dislikes homosexuals because they are biggots or because they dont like people who are different from them, then yeah I can agree. and I am right with you that I hope they learn to accept other lifestyles as equal.

Pocket read the post above mine, the person was pretty clear.. Religous people do not have a right to think certian things are sinful based on their scripture. That person expects that people need to give up what they beleive and just accept things.

No one is hurt if I do not personally think Adultry,promiscuity,homosexuality exc are not good or healthy lifestyles. I do not personally care if other people do these things, I just know they are things I can not do and I must teach my children not to do. And I am not hurt if there are night clubs full of people doing gang sex or wife swapping parties or homosexual bars.

Both can live happily.

Where it becomes a problem is if I am holding a sign outiside of a nightclub or homosexual bar saying their lifestyle is wrong. I would not do that but I can see if I go in their space and try and tell them they are wrong based on my religous beliefs.

It also becomes a problem when that agenda decides to go to my childs school and read books about homosexual relationships my grade schooler and 6th grade math teachers decide to come out of the closet during math class.

If my son or daughter told me they were homosexual I would tell them the same things I would tell them if they told me they were
Promiscuous. I would tell them its not healthy and according to my beliefs these are things we should not be doing. I would love them just the same as I would if they were neither but I would not pretend it was ok to save their feelings.
 
I think the OP is an amusing story. How many gay people marry straights as a cover? Sad that it took this to persuade him to broaden his view of basic human rights and dignity.
 
Pandora said:
People who do not accept certian things based on their religious and spiritual beliefs are doing it because of those religous and spiritual beliefs. Its not a matter of learning to accept it.
Click to expand...

So we should bow to their bigotry because it's grounded in their ignorance?
 
Pandora said:
No one is hurt if I do not personally think Adultry,promiscuity,homosexuality exc are not good or healthy lifestyles. I do not personally care if other people do these things, I just know they are things I can not do and I must teach my children not to do. And I am not hurt if there are night clubs full of people doing gang sex or wife swapping parties or homosexual bars.

Both can live happily.
Click to expand...


You are mixing up behaviors that most people would agree are unhealthy and undesirable with something that is innate to a small minority of the population. Homosexuality is an orientation, not a behavior. It is something some people are born with, and so not a choice. Adultery and promiscuity are choices, and unwise and unhealthy ones at that.

When gay marriage is outlawed, it gives gays a limited number of choices:

They can deny who they are, and attempt to have a heterosexual marriage, like the wife in the OP.

They can pretend to be married, and accept a life partner. I know a couple who has done exactly that for many years.

They can choose the promiscuous lifestyle.

They can be celibate.

If my son or daughter told me they were homosexual I would tell them the same things I would tell them if they told me they were Promiscuous. I would tell them its not healthy and according to my beliefs these are things we should not be doing. I would love them just the same as I would if they were neither but I would not pretend it was ok to save their feelings.
Click to expand...

I would hope that if you were to discover that your son or daughter was sleeping around, you'd have a serious parent/child talk about unacceptable and unhealthy choices. Were they to confess to you that they were homosexual, I'd hope you could accept them for who they are and not try to mold them into something that they're not.

You mention religion, but there is very little in the teachings of Jesus about homosexuals. There is quite a lot about "fornication", of course.
 
Zylstra said:
So we should bow to their bigotry because it's grounded in their ignorance?
Click to expand...

No you should not. You should just let people have their own faith, ideas and life styles and they should let you have yours.

your ideas of what is good and right if it conflicts with someones faith, religion or what ever, you should be able to get over the fact that they are not going to give up thier faith for your ideas and they should get over the idea that you should or would give up yours for thiers.
 
PLC1 said:
You are mixing up behaviors that most people would agree are unhealthy and undesirable with something that is innate to a small minority of the population. Homosexuality is an orientation, not a behavior. It is something some people are born with, and so not a choice. Adultery and promiscuity are choices, and unwise and unhealthy ones at that.
Click to expand...

I disagree, I used two different examples that scriptures say to obstain from
I am looking at this with my faith just like I look at everything first with my faith.

Both are wrong according to my faith, only one am I attacked for because I am not giving up on what my faith says about it.
 
PLC1 said:
When gay marriage is outlawed, it gives gays a limited number of choices:

They can deny who they are, and attempt to have a heterosexual marriage, like the wife in the OP.

They can pretend to be married, and accept a life partner. I know a couple who has done exactly that for many years.

They can choose the promiscuous lifestyle.

They can be celibate.
Click to expand...

You are assuming I am against homosexual marriage. I am not. I would not care if laws were passed that we could marry dogs and trees. It would mean nothing to me. What stock can I seriously put in some athiest judge or our government validating a relationship?

I am talking about how people are expected to accept the lifestyle as mainstream, normal and ok. That is something many people of faith can not do and will not do. Not because they are mean but because their faith tells them they can not. I still say that is no reason to pick on people, attack them or point fingers and yell sinner. If im going to point fingers and yell sinner, I am going to point at myself. I am the biggest sinner I know.
 
PLC1 said:
I would hope that if you were to discover that your son or daughter was sleeping around, you'd have a serious parent/child talk about unacceptable and unhealthy choices. Were they to confess to you that they were homosexual, I'd hope you could accept them for who they are and not try to mold them into something that they're not.

You mention religion, but there is very little in the teachings of Jesus about homosexuals. There is quite a lot about "fornication", of course.
Click to expand...

I do tell my children that sleeping around is wrong, perhaps too often :)


I mentioned religion but you need to remember Jesus is not the only religion out there :)

I personally accept and believe in the total of the whole scripture, some is found in what you call the bible, but much more never made in the book.

Islam also does not accept homosexuality, mostly based on what we call the OT. Heck Iran doesnt even have any homosexuals, So says their president.



I am very sure you will agree it would be wrong to tell everyone you have to disagere with homosexuality because a popular religion says its bad.


So why cant you agree that its wrong to tell everyone you cant disagree with homsexuality even though your faith says its wrong.

I should have the right to say adultry is wrong, homosexuality is wrong, unmarried people sleeping around is wrong, I even think not observing the Sabbath is wrong

but none of these things I would ever consider holding another person to. My faith is for me and my family and I do not expect anyone to agree with it.

and I expect the same in return from others.

I tolerate what others say, think and do and I should be tolerated also. and it should be ok
 
Pandora said:
I do tell my children that sleeping around is wrong, perhaps too often :)


I mentioned religion but you need to remember Jesus is not the only religion out there :)

I personally accept and believe in the total of the whole scripture, some is found in what you call the bible, but much more never made in the book.

Islam also does not accept homosexuality, mostly based on what we call the OT. Heck Iran doesnt even have any homosexuals, So says their president.



I am very sure you will agree it would be wrong to tell everyone you have to disagere with homosexuality because a popular religion says its bad.


So why cant you agree that its wrong to tell everyone you cant disagree with homsexuality even though your faith says its wrong.

I should have the right to say adultry is wrong, homosexuality is wrong, unmarried people sleeping around is wrong, I even think not observing the Sabbath is wrong

but none of these things I would ever consider holding another person to. My faith is for me and my family and I do not expect anyone to agree with it.

and I expect the same in return from others.

I tolerate what others say, think and do and I should be tolerated also. and it should be ok
Click to expand...

Herein lies the answer to the conundrum mentioned above.

You can continue to believe that homosexuality is wrong, and place it in a category with promiscuity and adultery. That is your choice.


Homosexuality is not a choice at all, of course. Saying that it is a choice is like saying that left handedness is a choice. At one time, people attempted to retrain lefties to be "normal" as well.

But I digress. Your belief really doesn't matter to the homosexuals, or to your fellow heteros either.

You can have your belief, so long as you're willing to live and let live. Your belief system, so long as you aren't trying to impose it on someone else, won't affect gays any more than their orientation will affect you.

Since you say you're not opposed to gay marriage, why would your belief that homosexuality is a choice and that it is not a normal lifestyle affect your gay neighbors any more than their being gay affects you?

It's a perfect Libertarian solution.
 
PLC1 said:
Herein lies the answer to the conundrum mentioned above.

You can continue to believe that homosexuality is wrong, and place it in a category with promiscuity and adultery. That is your choice.


Homosexuality is not a choice at all, of course. Saying that it is a choice is like saying that left handedness is a choice. At one time, people attempted to retrain lefties to be "normal" as well.

But I digress. Your belief really doesn't matter to the homosexuals, or to your fellow heteros either.

You can have your belief, so long as you're willing to live and let live. Your belief system, so long as you aren't trying to impose it on someone else, won't affect gays any more than their orientation will affect you.

Since you say you're not opposed to gay marriage, why would your belief that homosexuality is a choice and that it is not a normal lifestyle affect your gay neighbors any more than their being gay affects you?

It's a perfect Libertarian solution.
Click to expand...

When did I say that I thought homosexuality was a choice? I do not remember saying that. I supose for some people its a choice. Probably people who are bi sexual would fit in that catagory.

I dont think its a choice to be attracted to same sex as far back as you can remember and I have seen many documentarys on the topic. Some kids even before they can walk and talk show interest in things that normally the other sex shows interest in.

I do not think attraction to children is a choice either. I do not think those people who are attracted only to small children do it because they choose to. I think its something far deeper than that and I do not think they can help feeling those feelings.

The two women who live next door to me are homosexual. I do not have any problems with them. When they walk their dog in front of my house I say hi, my dog visits wtih their dog. I have never had any problems with them at all. I am really unclear of what you are trying to say in your post, sorry
 
Werbung:
Pandora said:
When did I say that I thought homosexuality was a choice? I do not remember saying that. I supose for some people its a choice. Probably people who are bi sexual would fit in that catagory.

I dont think its a choice to be attracted to same sex as far back as you can remember and I have seen many documentarys on the topic. Some kids even before they can walk and talk show interest in things that normally the other sex shows interest in.

I do not think attraction to children is a choice either. I do not think those people who are attracted only to small children do it because they choose to. I think its something far deeper than that and I do not think they can help feeling those feelings.

The two women who live next door to me are homosexual. I do not have any problems with them. When they walk their dog in front of my house I say hi, my dog visits wtih their dog. I have never had any problems with them at all. I am really unclear of what you are trying to say in your post, sorry
Click to expand...

That makes two of us who are confused, then.

If homosexuality is something that some are born with, and not a choice, then why would you post:

If my son or daughter told me they were homosexual I would tell them the same things I would tell them if they told me they were Promiscuous. I would tell them its not healthy and according to my beliefs these are things we should not be doing. I would love them just the same as I would if they were neither but I would not pretend it was ok to save their feelings.
Click to expand...

If it is something that they were born with, how is it unhealthy? Why would anyone just pretend it was OK to save their feelings? How can it not be OK?

If god made them that way, who are you to say he was wrong?

It's like saying that a child born left handed, or with curly hair is "not something that they should be doing?" It is not something that they are doing, but something that they are. Would you insist that they learn to use their right hand, or straighten their hair?

Sure, promiscuity is a choice, and not a healthy one. Homosexuality is not a choice, nor is it a behavior.

I'm really not sure just what your position is on this matter.
 
Back
Top