Why is this straight Republican in favor of SSM?

[Pandora]

Again, Oregon really should have laws requiring parents to be notified in advance when such things are being taught in school. I can see where a lot of parents would object to having alternative lifestyles being taught, especially at such an early age.

California does have such laws.

Meanwhile, involved parents can keep tabs on what is being taught. Most parents are not involved, however.



Such as??

Well here is one thing, section 12 bothers me

http://www.cde.ca.gov/ls/he/se/faq.asp


I was able to find this site but I am still working on a different computer, most of my info is stored on my own "broken" computer.

Also, there was a law passed a few years ago reguarding kids taken into foster care having sexual orientation stuff taught to them within a short window of time of going into foster care. I dont know if that law was repealed or not but it bothered me greatly.

To some degree I understand the topic has to come up. A kid in your class might have a homosexual mom and so two different women are called mom and comes to pick her up exc. and that could get confusing to a child who does not know about sexual orientation. But this would be the exeption not the rule. yet its being made the rule.

 

[PLC1]

Well here is one thing, section 12 bothers me

http://www.cde.ca.gov/ls/he/se/faq.asp


I was able to find this site but I am still working on a different computer, most of my info is stored on my own "broken" computer.

Also, there was a law passed a few years ago reguarding kids taken into foster care having sexual orientation stuff taught to them within a short window of time of going into foster care. I dont know if that law was repealed or not but it bothered me greatly.

To some degree I understand the topic has to come up. A kid in your class might have a homosexual mom and so two different women are called mom and comes to pick her up exc. and that could get confusing to a child who does not know about sexual orientation. But this would be the exeption not the rule. yet its being made the rule.

Hmm.. Section 12:

What does the EC say about providing sex education and HIV/STD instruction to students who may be lesbian, gay, bisexual, or transgendered?

EC sections 51933(b)(4) and 51934(b) require that instruction be appropriate for use with students of all sexual orientations and clearly states that part of the intent of the law is “to encourage a pupil to develop healthy attitudes concerning adolescent growth and development, body image, gender roles, sexual orientation, dating, marriage, and family.” The law prohibits sex education classes from teaching or promoting religious doctrine and from promoting bias against anyone on the basis of any category protected by the state's school nondiscrimination policy, EC Section 220, which includes actual or perceived gender and sexual orientation.

All comprehensive sexual health education and HIV instruction, including topics such as sexual development, dating, family, and protection from STDs and pregnancy, must encompass the experiences of gay, lesbian, and bisexual students as well as those of their heterosexual classmates.

I'm guessing that this is the troublesome part:

must encompass the experiences of gay, lesbian, and bisexual students as well as those of their heterosexual classmates.

I'm not sure just what that means. It must encompass the experiences of gays, etc.. Would that mean sexual encounters?

Surely not. Well, let's hope not, anyway.

Or, would it mean harassment by homophobic classmates? That is one experience I'm sure that they've all had. Even the students that other kids think are gay have experienced such harassment.

 

[Pandora]

Hmm.. Section 12:
I'm guessing that this is the troublesome part:



I'm not sure just what that means. It must encompass the experiences of gays, etc.. Would that mean sexual encounters?

Surely not. Well, let's hope not, anyway.

Or, would it mean harassment by homophobic classmates? That is one experience I'm sure that they've all had. Even the students that other kids think are gay have experienced such harassment.

'The part you clipped out troubles me some yes but the whole thing troubled me some. This part troubled me some

“to encourage a pupil to develop healthy attitudes concerning adolescent growth and development, body image, gender roles, sexual orientation, dating, marriage, and family.”

I am really sorry but teachers and government workers need to keep the hell away from my child and not encourage them to do anything but their homework in reading, writing, math and science exc.



All students should be protected from harassment, I do not take issue with that. Things could be worded a whole lot more clear to clarify this.


when the wording leads even you to say things like.......

I'm not sure just what that means.

Where it talks about ............It must encompass the experiences of gays, etc.. Would that mean sexual encounters?


Then for you to need to guess and hope at what it really means like this....

Surely not. Well, let's hope not, anyway.


I think my concerns are reasonable and it will be a cold day in hell before I let the frakin government or teachers influence or encourage my child with thier version of good sexual lifestyles.



But it all comes back to the same thing. We have a right to raise our children with our values, not the governments values or the popular cultures values, and we should be tolerated and left alone to do these things just as we should tolerate those parent/ students who pick other lifestyles.

 

[PLC1]

'The part you clipped out troubles me some yes but the whole thing troubled me some. This part troubled me some

“to encourage a pupil to develop healthy attitudes concerning adolescent growth and development, body image, gender roles, sexual orientation, dating, marriage, and family.”

I am really sorry but teachers and government workers need to keep the hell away from my child and not encourage them to do anything but their homework in reading, writing, math and science exc.



All students should be protected from harassment, I do not take issue with that. Things could be worded a whole lot more clear to clarify this.


when the wording leads even you to say things like.......

I'm not sure just what that means.

Where it talks about ............It must encompass the experiences of gays, etc.. Would that mean sexual encounters?


Then for you to need to guess and hope at what it really means like this....

Surely not. Well, let's hope not, anyway.


I think my concerns are reasonable and it will be a cold day in hell before I let the frakin government or teachers influence or encourage my child with thier version of good sexual lifestyles.



But it all comes back to the same thing. We have a right to raise our children with our values, not the governments values or the popular cultures values, and we should be tolerated and left alone to do these things just as we should tolerate those parent/ students who pick other lifestyles.

All of which explains why parents should be notified before any such discussion takes place, so that they can opt out of it. Most parents don't discuss sexual matters with their children. Sure, it would be much better if they did, and if the schools would simply stay out of it altogether, but the fact remains: Most parents don't discuss these things with their children.

Many parents don't read to their children when they're small, play games with them, go over homework with them, put them to bed at a reasonable hour, and keep track of where they go and who they spend time with either.

If the school can "encourage a pupil to develop healthy attitudes concerning adolescent growth and development, body image, gender roles, sexual orientation, dating, marriage, and family” for children whose parents don't try to teach them about such things, then they should do so. Isn't that better than children getting their instruction from other children, from TV or from the internet?

 

[Pandora]

If the school can "encourage a pupil to develop healthy attitudes concerning adolescent growth and development, body image, gender roles, sexual orientation, dating, marriage, and family” for children whose parents don't try to teach them about such things, then they should do so. Isn't that better than children getting their instruction from other children, from TV or from the internet?

IF the only people that the government wanted to "encourage" were the kids who had parents who didnt care about them and I know there are parents out there like that, though I do not agree its the majority but rather the minority. and IF we were sure these teachers and the government person who made the guidelines actually had any moral fiber then I supose its better but IF is a really big word in a case like this.

BUT the problem is, they are not now and never will be satisfied just "encouraging" those kids that have bad parents and no one cares about them. They are wanting to "encourage" all the nations children to their way of thinking.


Anyways,

back to the origional post in this thread, I disagree that people should be expected to change what they find morally right because some group feels unhappy or uncomfortable being who or what they are as long as there are people who disagree for what ever reason.

Those people need to learn to be happy in their own skin reguardless of the world agreeing with them. and they need to learn to tolerate that there are other people out there who will always disagree with them.

 

[Zylstra]

'The part you clipped out troubles me some yes but the whole thing troubled me some. This part troubled me some

“to encourage a pupil to develop healthy attitudes concerning adolescent growth and development, body image, gender roles, sexual orientation, dating, marriage, and family.”

I am really sorry but teachers and government workers need to keep the hell away from my child and not encourage them to do anything but their homework in reading, writing, math and science exc.

So they shouldn't tell your kid to follow the rules and not beat up kids for having a different skin color?

Perhaps you'd care to recant or rephrase your foolish statement.

All students should be protected from harassment, I do not take issue with that.

Contradicts what you said above

Where it talks about ............It must encompass the experiences of gays, etc.. Would that mean sexual encounters?

Does every kid write about sex for their 'what I did last summer'?

http://www.fallacyfiles.org/redherrf.html

Did it occur to you thst maybe they would discuss social implications of 'coming out' and how their interactions with their peers have been effected by their orientation/age/sex/color and the social environment around them?

I think my concerns are reasonable

Negative

But it all comes back to the same thing. We have a right to raise our children with our values,

Most of you reactionaries don't do so, and we have the same right to teach your children to not becomes plague upon society.

not the governments values or the popular cultures values, and we should be tolerated and left alone to do these things just as we should tolerate those parent/ students who pick other lifestyles.

So when a kid shows up to school and starts telling all the black kids that '******s need to get back in the fields', the teachers should say/do nothing?

 

[Pandora]

So they shouldn't tell your kid to follow the rules and not beat up kids for having a different skin color??

I never said kids should be able to taunt other kids, not for their race or sexual orientation. Why are you trying twist things to say something I never said?

Perhaps you'd care to recant or rephrase your foolish statement.
Contradicts what you said above

No need since I never said what you accused me of

Does every kid write about sex for their 'what I did last summer'?

You quoted PLC1 and then applied it to me. You had better ask him what he meant.

Did it occur to you thst maybe they would discuss social implications of 'coming out' and how their interactions with their peers have been effected by their orientation/age/sex/color and the social environment around them??

Yes it did occur to me and I do not think its the place of the government or teachers to tell students what is morally appropriate especially where sex and sexual identity is concerned. But I supose if a parent doesnt mind and a teacher is willing, those kids could talk about it to thier hearts concent. And those familys who want no part of it should not be made to take part.

Most of you reactionaries don't do so, and we have the same right to teach your children to not becomes plague upon society.

I would not let someone with your mindset and thinking 5 ft of my child to teach them anything. I am afraid that would result in the plague you speak of.

So when a kid shows up to school and starts telling all the black kids that '******s need to get back in the fields', the teachers should say/do nothing?

Those kids would and should be suspended or expelled. No one could stop the kid from hating certian races but that kid has no right to tease or taunt others and if they wont stop they should leave the school and not be welcome back

 

[PLC1]

Say, Zylstra, how does race apply to any of this?

I think you're using race to muddy up the waters, but that's just my personal perception.

 

[Zylstra]

I never said kids should be able to taunt other kids, not for their race or sexual orientation. Why are you trying twist things to say something I never said?

wait for it...

I do not think its the place of the government or teachers to tell students what is morally appropriate especially where sex and sexual identity is concerned.

So... teachers should not tell kids not to beat up on the little black kid, depants the girls, or steal the other kids' money?

I would not let someone with your mindset and thinking 5 ft of my child to teach them anything. I am afraid that would result in the plague you speak of.

OH NOES! THE CHILDREN! THEY'RE TEACHING THEM NOT TO FIGHT! THE LIBERALS ARE TEACHING THEM TO BE NICE TO THE JEWS AND EFFEMINATE! QUICK, GRAB YOUR BIBLES AND YOUR GUNS! LET US BE OUTRAGED!

*****

Those kids would and should be suspended or expelled.

I do not think its the place of the government or teachers to tell students what is morally appropriate especially where sex and sexual identity is concerned.

 

[Zylstra]

Say, Zylstra, how does race apply to any of this?

I think you're using race to muddy up the waters, but that's just my personal perception.

Methinks you're evading because you've been shown a fool.

 

[AtheismIsReality]

Would people demand that a teacher refrain from telling children a story that contained a married man and woman so the parents could discuss that aspect of life with their kids and not have the nanny government indoctrinating their children?

 

[Pandora]

wait for it...



So... teachers should not tell kids not to beat up on the little black kid, depants the girls, or steal the other kids' money?





OH NOES! THE CHILDREN! THEY'RE TEACHING THEM NOT TO FIGHT! THE LIBERALS ARE TEACHING THEM TO BE NICE TO THE JEWS AND EFFEMINATE! QUICK, GRAB YOUR BIBLES AND YOUR GUNS! LET US BE OUTRAGED!

*****

Apparently you did not read anything I said.

NO kids should not pick on other students for being different
YES adults should stop kids who pick on students for being different

the comedy at the end was funny

liberals teaching them to be nice to Jews.

I got a laugh out of that. Liberals are the biggest Jew haters I know.

I thought jimmy carter was your king American Jew hater, but I see that
obama has won the title.

 

[PLC1]

Methinks you're evading because you've been shown a fool.

and, you've done that by totally changing the subject from homosexuality to race? Well, if you say so, it must be so

 

[Zylstra]

Apparently you did not read anything I said.

NO kids should not pick on other students for being different

Yet teachers should teach kids what's acceptable or enforce their morals..

YES adults should stop kids who pick on students for being different

so they should teach kids what society deems moral, whether the parent agrees or not?

Do try to make up your mind.

 

[Pandora]

Yet teachers should teach kids what's acceptable or enforce their morals..



so they should teach kids what society deems moral, whether the parent agrees or not?

Do try to make up your mind.

I have made up my mind, you are just trying to twist it.. though I dont know why.

This thread is about homosexuality not race, do you understand that?


I do not want teachers to teach my child that what ever morals they happen to have on sexuality is the right morals. I have no problems with teachers stopping a child from harrasing another child if the child is harrasing someone over anything.

It does not matter if a person agrees with homosexuality or not, it is NEVER ok to pick on or tease another person over it just like its never ok to tease over race or religion.