Who Shouldnt Have Guns?

[Federal Farmer]

The only people who should not be allowed to be able to exercise their Rights as guaranteed under the Second Amendment are those who are presently incarcerated, or have been deemed mentally or physically unfit to do so by a board of certified clinical psychiatrists due to the fact that they are currently under a psychiatrists care and on psychotropic medications.

Other than that, everyone, at least those subject to Title 10 and Title 32 authority, should be required to at least own a firearm of the "normal military issue" along with a basic load of ammunition. Everyone else should be allowed to have as many weapons, of whatever description they choose. Whether they choose to carry it on their person at any time should be left strictly up the them.











(now, let the wailing, crying, and gnashing of teeth commence)

 

[PLC1]

The only people who should not be allowed to be able to exercise their Rights as guaranteed under the Second Amendment are those who are presently incarcerated, or have been deemed mentally or physically unfit to do so by a board of certified clinical psychiatrists due to the fact that they are currently under a psychiatrists care and on psychotropic medications.

Other than that, everyone, at least those subject to Title 10 and Title 32 authority, should be required to at least own a firearm of the "normal military issue" along with a basic load of ammunition. Everyone else should be allowed to have as many weapons, of whatever description they choose. Whether they choose to carry it on their person at any time should be left strictly up the them.






(now, let the wailing, crying, and gnashing of teeth commence)

I'm not sure I'd want an all powerful government requiring people to own a gun of any kind, but i pretty much agree with the rest. I do think that anyone who packs a gun should have enough training to make sure that they can use it competently, however.

And the second amendment doesn't mention guns.

 

[dahermit]

I'm not sure I'd want an all powerful government requiring people to own a gun of any kind, but i pretty much agree with the rest. I do think that anyone who packs a gun should have enough training to make sure that they can use it competently, however.

And the second amendment doesn't mention guns.

Would you feel more comfortable if the Government issued a firearm to citizens and the ownership of the weapon was still the Government's?

Guns are a common name for "arms". Unless you are concerned that "guns" could mean artillery, what issue do you take with that?

 

[PLC1]

Would you feel more comfortable if the Government issued a firearm to citizens and the ownership of the weapon was still the Government's?

Guns are a common name for "arms". Unless you are concerned that "guns" could mean artillery, what issue do you take with that?

All guns are arms. Not all arms are guns.

 

[Federal Farmer]

Would you feel more comfortable if the Government issued a firearm to citizens and the ownership of the weapon was still the Government's?

That would be in direct contradiction of the Militia Act of 1792, which required that all members of the militia supply their own weapons, ammunition (there goes the "silly ones" argument about arms not necessarily being firearms since you don't need ammunition with knives or clubs), accoutrement's, and field pack. Also, under Title 10 Section 311, and Title 32 Section 313 of the United States Code, every able bodied male between the ages of 17 and 45, to age 64 if he has served in the Armed Forces, and every female between 17 and 45 who has served in the Armed Forces, is a member of the "unorganized militia" of the United States, and is subject to call-up at the discretion of POTUS to put down insurgency, riots, and other civil unrest that threatens the security of the United States, as well as to call them up at the request of the Governor of a State.

Every citizen, by virtue of these Positive Laws, is duty bound, as an American, to own at least one weapon of the type used by our Armed Forces, and to know how to use it/them, at least a basic load of ammunition for that weapon (in the case of an M-16, that would be 180 rounds in 30 round magazines), and any other equipment necessary for their use during a deployment.

Guns are a common name for "arms". Unless you are concerned that "guns" could mean artillery, what issue do you take with that?

This is a primary example of Liberals equivocating about the meaning of words, without having the historical facts to support their position. The "arms" mentioned in the Second Amendment were specifically FIREARMS, and specifically of the type used by the militias of the day, which were the equivalent, or in some cases, superior to the type used by the regular military. Mayhaps if someone has suggested that he read the "Debates of the Federal Convention" by James Madison, he'd have known that.

I also recall some mention of cannons? It may interest some to know that when the British forces were marching on Concord, their orders were to seize powder, shot and privately owned cannon of the citizens of Concord. It seems that they were the original BATFE, and everybody has forgotten that little fact.

Those who do not learn from their history, are doomed to repeat it!

 

[dahermit]

That would be in direct contradiction of the Militia Act of 1792, which required that all members of the militia supply their own weapons, ammunition (there goes the "silly ones" argument about arms not necessarily being firearms since you don't need ammunition with knives or clubs), accoutrement's, and field pack.

This is a primary example of Liberals equivocating about the meaning of words, without having the historical facts to support their position. The "arms" mentioned in the Second Amendment were specifically FIREARMS, and specifically of the type used by the militias of the day, which were the equivalent, or in some cases, superior to the type used by the regular military.

"To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;..." Section 8 of the U.S. constitution. Sounds like the Government is required to provide arms.

If "arms" always just means firearms, then do you contend that militia may not posses bayonets, spontoons, and swords?

 

[PLC1]

That would be in direct contradiction of the Militia Act of 1792, which required that all members of the militia supply their own weapons, ammunition (there goes the "silly ones" argument about arms not necessarily being firearms since you don't need ammunition with knives or clubs), accoutrement's, and field pack.

You can stick your fingers in your ears and go lalalalalala, of course, as long as you want, but the fact will remain that "arms" means bombs, grenades, artillery, tanks, planes, and a whole lot more than simply guns.

 

[Federal Farmer]

"To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;..." Section 8 of the U.S. constitution. Sounds like the Government is required to provide arms.

If "arms" always just means firearms, then do you contend that militia may not posses bayonets, spontoons, and swords?

I see that you're testing me to find out if I actually know what I'm talking about, or if I just pulled something out of my fourth point of contact. Fine, here goes;

The Militia Act of 1792

I. Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America, in Congress assembled, That each and every free able-bodied white male citizen of the respective States, resident therein, who is or shall be of age of eighteen years, and under the age of forty-five years (except as is herein after excepted) shall severally and respectively be enrolled in the militia, by the Captain or Commanding Officer of the company, within whose bounds such citizen shall reside, and that within twelve months after the passing of this Act. And it shall at all time hereafter be the duty of every such Captain or Commanding Officer of a company, to enroll every such citizen as aforesaid, and also those who shall, from time to time, arrive at the age of 18 years, or being at the age of 18 years, and under the age of 45 years (except as before excepted) shall come to reside within his bounds; and shall without delay notify such citizen of the said enrollment, by the proper non-commissioned Officer of the company, by whom such notice may be proved. That every citizen, so enrolled and notified, shall, within six months thereafter, provide himself with a good musket or firelock, a sufficient bayonet and belt, two spare flints, and a knapsack, a pouch, with a box therein, to contain not less than twenty four cartridges, suited to the bore of his musket or firelock, each cartridge to contain a proper quantity of power and ball; or with a good rifle, knapsack, shot-pouch, and power-horn, twenty balls suited to the bore of his rifle, and a quarter of a power of power; and shall appear so armed, accoutred and provided, when called out to exercise or into service, except, that when called out on company days to exercise only, he may appear without a knapsack. That the commissioned Officers shall severally be armed with a sword or hanger, and espontoon; and that from and after five years from the passing of this Act, all muskets from arming the militia as is herein required, shall be of bores sufficient for balls of the eighteenth part of a pound; and every citizen so enrolled, and providing himself with the arms, ammunition and accoutrement's, required as aforesaid, shall hold the same exempted from all suits, distresses, executions or sales, for debt or for the payment of taxes.

The Militia Act of 1792, as well as Title 10 and Title 32 of the USC specifically provides for the organizing, arming, and disciplining of the militia, so that part of Article 1 Section VIII has been accomplished. Thank you for playing.

The items specifically mentioned in the act were part of the normal military issue of the day. Today, swords and espontoons are not a part of the normal military issue, while the bayonet still is, and therefore would be part of the normal accoutrement's of a member of the militia. Now, if you wish to present yourself on a modern battlefield with a sword or espontoon, by all means, please do, and after the battle, I'll be more than happy to pry it from your cold dead hands and hang it on the wall where it belongs. Also, as you can plainly see, you are supposed to provide your OWN weapon, ammunition, and accoutrement's, so I suggest you get down to your local firearms dealer, and your local GI Surplus store and get your gear together. If you need a list of exactly what you'll be needing, I'm sure I can put one together for you.

 

[dahermit]

The Militia Act of 1792, as well as Title 10 and Title 32 of the USC specifically provides for the organizing, arming, and disciplining of the militia, so that part of Article 1 Section VIII has been accomplished. Thank you for playing.

Also, as you can plainly see, you are supposed to provide your OWN weapon, ammunition, and accoutrement's, so I suggest you get down to your local firearms dealer, and your local GI Surplus store and get your gear together. If you need a list of exactly what you'll be needing, I'm sure I can put one together for you.

Nevertheless, cited legislation withstanding, what I want to know is when do I get my free M16 or M4. I do not feel that my need for arms has be "provided for" as in section eight. I interpret section 8 as supplying the arms for the militia.

As for the arms I will need, I have 48 more or less already including M1 Garand, Officers Model .45, Browning H.P., AR15 Hbar, abundant ammo in GI clips, and magazines, bayonets, entrenching tool, Alice Pack and Frame, Med Kit, etc.

I was however hoping for the free full auto or at least 3 shot burst capability Stoner-based current G.I. weapon I mentioned, and a couple of frags would be nice.

 

[Jarlaxle]

On a semi-related note to this thread, I managed to hit a wooden block thrown in the air with my uncle's H&H double elephant rifle today. First time after probably 50+ tries. He then hit seven out of ten with the Holland, and 24 out of 24 with my .44 Magnum. Show-off.

 

[Federal Farmer]

Nevertheless, cited legislation withstanding, what I want to know is when do I get my free M16 or M4. I do not feel that my need for arms has be "provided for" as in section eight. I interpret section 8 as supplying the arms for the militia.

You can "interpret" all you want to, it doesn't make it a reality. If you want an M-16 or an M-4, go out and buy your own. It's not the governments job to give you a weapon any more than it's their job to provide food and housing to a bunch of slackers that refuse to provide for themselves by misinterpreting the General Welfare clause.

As for the rest, I would be careful about listing the contents of your armory on the net, lest the good people at BATFEIEIO decide to come pay you a visit to see if you are in compliance with whatever un-constitutional rules they've decided to invent.

 

[dahermit]

On a semi-related note to this thread, I managed to hit a wooden block thrown in the air with my uncle's H&H double elephant rifle today. First time after probably 50+ tries. He then hit seven out of ten with the Holland, and 24 out of 24 with my .44 Magnum. Show-off.

I have a Interarms Mark X in .458 Win.Magnum that gives me a headache if I fire it three times with factory ammo. The Mark X only weighs about 8 lbs. That is probably one of the reasons that the recoil is so brutal. What H&H caliber is the double?

 

[dahermit]

If you want an M-16 or an M-4, go out and buy your own.

Last I heard, full auto arms(class three) are not for sale to civilians...just law enforcement.

 

[Federal Farmer]

Last I heard, full auto arms(class three) are not for sale to civilians...just law enforcement.

Nope, just contact a Class 3 dealer, he'll be able to hook you up with just about anything you want, provided your pockets are deep enough, and provided the local LEO's in your area are willing to sign off on it. You'll have to have a full BCI, and there are certain rules you'll have to abide by as far as storage etc., which the BATFEIEIO boys WILL stop by on occasion to ensure you are abiding by (secured in a rated gun safe).

One of the reasons I live where I do now is that the Sheriff in our old county took it upon himself to refuse to sign off on any more Class 3 transfers, so we sold our home of 20 years, packed up and moved to the next county over, where the Sheriff actually understands, and abides by, the Second Amendment.

If you don't know any Class 3 dealers, HERE'S a resource to get you started. You should be able to pick up an M-16/M-4 variant (3 rnd burst) for about $15,000.00. Frankly, I wouldn't spend that kind of money on one when you can pick up an Olympic Arms AR-15/CAR-15 for about $800.00 to $1,000.00 and it'll do the same job, except no 3 rnd burst or full auto. Trust me though, if the sh1t ever hits the fan that bad that you NEED 3 rnd burst or full auto, there'll be plenty of 'em laying around on the ground, all you have to do is bend over and grab one.

 

[Jarlaxle]

I have a Interarms Mark X in .458 Win.Magnum that gives me a headache if I fire it three times with factory ammo. The Mark X only weighs about 8 lbs. That is probably one of the reasons that the recoil is so brutal. What H&H caliber is the double?

This one is a .577 Nitro (Holland and others also made doubles in .600 Nitro). Recoil isn't as bad as you'd think (of course, it's about a 16lb rifle). The loudest one we fired was a revolver: his Springfield Sledgehammer (.500 Smith & Wesson).

I hope you wear ear protectors when shooting a .458 Winchester!