What is the point?

[Dawkinsrocks]

Yes, that is interesting.

Look at the rage in Bododie's posts.

And BTW Bododie, there are lots of references in the bible to heaven. I think that is probably why every christian except you thinks that is where christians end up.

You should re-read your last post above.

Look at how desperate you appear wanting to be right at all costs.

And you are still wrong.

 

[bododie]

Dawkins, I believe the point of YOUR thread was what is the point in going to Heaven? not is there a Heaven? Are you telling me now that I am wrong because you don't know what you asked? I never said that there weren't references to Heaven did I? You are unable to site anyplace in the Bible that says "when you die you go to Heaven". You know why? Because it isn't there. Is it my fault that you are wrong?
I'm not responsible for what other people want to believe. Catholics thought for a long time that you could buy your way into Heaven. Did they get it from the Bible? No.

As for "Christian love" the Bible also says to essentially choose your friends wisely". The only love I owe anyone is to honor their gift of life, as I honor my own. But I don't have to "love" them. Should I have loved someone like Jeffrey Dahmer? That's just plain stupidity.

You take being taken to task for your words as hate. I wouldn't bother to hate someone who doesn't believe in God, it's their choice. I don't care. Why should I? I wouldn't bother to hate if someone socked me either, but you can bet I would defend myself and sock them back if that's what it took to stop them.

No Dawkins, you are wrong. You said that the Bible says that we will go to Heaven. It does not. Look how desperate you are to be right at all costs, even when you are proven wrong.

I said first thing that I am a child of God, who likes Jesus' message. I don't live my life by everything the Bible says, and I certainly am not striving to be perfect. I do live a moral life in that I don't steal, cheat, lie or murder. I don't do it because a book said to, I do it because it's common decency.

 

[Dawkinsrocks]

That post was too boring to read

 

[bododie]

I'll make it short. You are wrong, and you can't admit it. It's an athiest thing. Pitiful.

 

[vyo476]

You guys might want to consider starting over. This is going nowhere fast.

 

[Dawkinsrocks]

Indeed

It has become a personal quest by bododie to vanquish me rather than get to the truth.

Suggesting that my OP is answered by stating that there is god and all that but not eternal life in heaven is just silly.

The vast majority of chirtians believe in eternal life in heven and my question is about the pointlessness of that.

I know there is no eternal life and no heaven so stating that this is the case does not remotely address the question I originally posed.

 

[Dr.Who]

Christians are always banging on about how pointless life is in the context of the fact that god does not exist.

They do not seem to realise that pointlessness is not a defence.

According to christians you spend all your life doing as god says in return for a ticket into heaven where you will live forever.

So here's my question.

What is the point of that?

I can think of nothng worse than eternal life and anyone who seriously contemplates it soon realises that it is actually a nightmare scenario.

So, christians, what is the point of living forever in heaven?

I see that this thread includes a debate about whether or not man will live on in heaven or on earth.

It makes no difference if the meaning of life is accomplished in heaven or on some eternally lasting earth. Whether man lives on in heaven or on some eternally lasting earth the point of life is the same; to love God.

This is nothing new or mysterious. It is mentioned in the bible often. It is mentioned in the Shema, Jesus says that it is the sumation of the law. And the Westminster Shorter catecism written in 1640 says it this way:

Q: What is the chief end of man?

A: To glorify God and to enjoy Him forever.
http://www.puritansermons.com/watson/watson5.htm

So if one loves God then there is a point to life. If one does not love God then life is pointless. At least from god's perpective and that of christians and the bible. But you are free to decide for yourself if you find eating and drinking and dying to be meaningful.

 

[Dr.Who]

According to christians you spend all your life doing as god says in return for a ticket into heaven where you will live forever.

I have no doubt that some Christians say that but a careful reading of the bible would show one that that is not what the bible says.

We are not intended to spend our whole life following a list of rules (I assume that is what you are talking about) in exchange for a ticket to heaven.

We are expected to use our minds to do what is right just because it is right and that leads naturally to a healthy relationship with God. One might try to follow the rules to do what is right but he would discover that he is unable to follow the rules. The ticket can't successfully be bought by man! That should give one perspective to see that man cannot be good enough for heaven on his own. But God can make one righteous through faith.

 

[Dawkinsrocks]

Prizes for anyone who can decode that.

It sounds like you have to live a half-witted life professing all sorts of nonesense, being massively humilated as a result but with no reward at the end.

That is my attempt.

Others on a postcard to me.

 

[dahermit]

Q: What is the chief end of man?
A: To glorify God and to enjoy Him forever.

Do not want to...it sounds boring and unappealing to all of us who are not frequently indoctrinated (mass, services, group prayer, sermons), with church rhetoric

So if one loves God then there is a point to life.

So you say. But then, the point to all other life on this planet seems to be to live, reproduce, and die...what more is needed?

If one does not love God then life is pointless.

So you say. Is there some advanced degree that you hold in some scientific discipline that makes you an authority on the subject, or is that just one person's opinion?

At least from god's perpective

Do you speak for God?

and that of Christians and the bible.

Do you speak for all Christan's? Do you have credentials in Bible scholarship? Or, is that just one person's opinion?

But you are free to decide for yourself if you find eating and drinking and dying to be meaningful.

Do believers "...find eating and drinking and dying to be meaningful."?
If it were proved that God did not exist, would you stop "...eating and drinking and dying?"

 

[Dawkinsrocks]

My original point is that eternal life in heaven has no point. In fact it would be unbearable.

So Dr Who is saying that the point of life is to work towards something that is pointless and unbearable.

And I cannot think of a better description of religion.

 

[Dr.Who]

My original point is that eternal life in heaven has no point. In fact it would be unbearable.

So Dr Who is saying that the point of life is to work towards something that is pointless and unbearable.

And I cannot think of a better description of religion.

I offer that the meaning of life includes eating and drinking and all we rightly find enjoyable plus I add as a more important aspect of it that loving God is the reason that one lives life one way versus another.

You offer only the eating and drinking part. You think yourself to be more free but I think myself to be more free. I am free to love God and live my life in ways that would make God happy or to live my life solely in my own pursuits. You are free to live life in pursuit of your own ends but you are not free to live a life devoted to God (unless you change your mind about God).

 

[Dawkinsrocks]

You are free to be as ridiculous as you wish.

God doesn't exist so pursuing him in anyway is a complete waste of life.

But a waste you are free to make.

Shame but there you are.

 

[bododie]

God doesn't exist

You have made a statement as fact. Prove it or admit that you can't. To pretend that you don't understand isn't viable since you claim to have a high I.Q. Of course, if you did, you would know that it doesn't mean that you are smart, but is merely an predictor of educational achievement. That means: One with a high I.Q. is considered better able to quickly grasp concepts and understand. You have admitted in writing on this board that you lack that ability.

Are you a liar?

 

[Dawkinsrocks]

In the same way that people and probably even you are (although it wouldn't surprise me to hear that you aren't) happy to say that faires don't exist I am happy to say that god doesn't exist.

There is as much evidence for the existence of both i.e. none.

In the normal world the onus is on proof of existence and in the absence of said proof we behave as though stuff does not exist until proven otherwise.

Christians are so desperate to have an argument for god that they cling to the sophistry of arguing that you cannot prove non-existence although when their guard is down are happy to talk about the non-existence of loads of things.

You have to be sooooo thick to be a christian. You have to be happy with made-up answers to hard questions and you oh so need to think that you will see people again who have died as though wanting something to be true makes it true.

I stopped doing that when I was about 4 years old.

So really christianity is a childish way of dealing with a realisty that the proponents are too weak to accept.

Like when a young child's friend or parent dies and they have to be comforted with a story of that person going to heaven. That is about the level of christianity and it is no different to telling a child that Sanat Claus exists.

Unfortunately many children only grow out of one of the two lies.