Understanding the Enemy

[bewitched]

All three of the monkeys, "see no evil", "hear no evil" and "speak no evil" come to mind. They not only dont want to hear it, they dont want it spoken.

exactly.
and when the enemy is upon the monkeys they will become bushmeat.

unless we face the fact that there is Islamic violence and the threat against the West we are vulnerable and taking the risk of losing our freedom, country, and lives.

reverting to biblical verse does nothing to stop the present violence that is a threat to our National Security. it's a cheap cop-out and denial and ineffective.

those who take action and fight for the US should be commended.

 

[bewitched]

speaking of monkeys.
sapience isn't something that Christianity or Islam possess, it's a human characteristic. if sapience (judgement) allows humans to act in a certain manner, such as terrorism, then their judgement is poor. human nature that is guided to make poor judgement by hate preaching clerics or religion can be changed. and it is this change that is necessary to stop terrorism.

 

[jb_1430]

speaking of monkeys.
sapience isn't something that Christianity or Islam possess, it's a human characteristic. if sapience (judgement) allows humans to act in a certain manner, such as terrorism, then their judgement is poor. human nature that is guided to make poor judgement by hate preaching clerics or religion can be changed. and it is this change that is necessary to stop terrorism.

Its not their judgement. "judgment is only Allah's". Wouldnt be so bad if he was a pascivist preaching turn the other cheek and do unto others instead of "slay the idolaters".

[5.44]...and whoever did not judge by what Allah revealed, those are they that are the unbelievers.
[5.45] ..and whoever did not judge by what Allah revealed, those are they that are the unjust.
[5.47] ... and whoever did not judge by what Allah revealed, those are they that are the transgressors.
[5.48] And We have revealed to you the Book with the truth, verifying what is before it of the Book and a guardian over it, therefore judge between them by what Allah has revealed,
[12.40] ... judgment is only Allah's; He has commanded that you shall not serve aught but Him; this is the right religion but most people do not know:

 

[bewitched]

from the enemy's mindset: (which is the most important thing to understand)
On January 3, 2008, the Islamist forum http://ek-ls.org (hosted by NOC4Hosts Inc. in Florida, USA) posted a communiqué titled "As You Condemn Others, So You Will Be Condemned" by the terrorist group Harakat Al-Shabab Al-Mujahideen. In the communiqué the group threatens to attack the capitals of African countries which are participating in the peacekeeping force in Somalia.
[...]

"… We stress that we will retaliate. Whoever banishes Muslim nations [from their lands] grants us permission to banish his people [from their land]; whoever kills our women – we shall kill his women; whoever attacks our dignity – we shall give him what he deserves; whoever turns our mothers into widows and our children into orphans – we shall turn his mother into a widow and increase [the number of] his orphans…"

[...]

"The soldiers and people of the states that are participating in the occupation of our country have become part of the Crusader alliance led by the global criminal Bush, and [partners in] the war he is waging on all the Muslims. Thereby, they have made themselves targets for attacks by the Muslims who are protecting themselves and their religion.

"And just as they rallied under the banner of the global Crusade against Islam, we [now join] the mujahideen in the global Islamic war against the Cross; just as the Abyssinians [Ethiopians] are helped by their brethren, the worshippers of the Cross, so do we have our Muslim brethren in all the countries of the world, including the countries from which [the soldiers of the peacekeeping force in Somalia] come – [namely] Ethiopia, Uganda, Burundi and so on… They stand with us and we stand with them against [our] common Crusader enemy."

 

[numinus]

I answered the golden rule. the Islamic golden rule is to treat brothers as you would yourself. that means only Muslim brothers, because the Quran clearly states that others (non-muslims) are not equal.

LOL. Of the 40 years of islamic practice, have you not encountered the term 'people of the book', the same people being contemplated in the passage I provided?

I also answered apartheid and nazism. Germany and South Africa are not religious governmental countries.

Apartheid is a CHRISTIAN nationalist movement of the afrikaner. Nazism generously employed christian symbolism in their anti-jew propaganda. You have answered NOTHING - merely demonstrated your utter lack of education.

moving forward is difficult. I know.
so maybe you can comment on:
"Ressentiment is a reassignment of the pain that accompanies a sense of one's own inferiority/failure onto an external scapegoat. The ego creates the illusion of an enemy, a cause that can be "blamed" for one's own inferiority/failure. Thus, one was thwarted not by a failure in oneself, but rather by an external "evil". This issuing of "blame" leads one to desire revenge, or at least believe in the possibility of revenge; this lust for revenge may take many forms, as in the Christian conception of the Last Judgment, or the socialist conception of revolution. In each case, a sense of powerlessness creates the illusion of an enemy; one suddenly conceives oneself to be oppressed rather than merely weak, a phenomenon that spawns externally-directed bitterness (lust for a perceived "revenge").

Ressentiment lies at the heart of much of Nietzschean thought, particularly in regard to Judaism and Christianity. Nietzsche believed that these religions stemmed from a desire to invert the natural order of the world, to establish the prevalence of weakness over strength. Judea's position of weakness in the Roman Empire was itself the origin of ressentiment, of the moral system that elevated pity (the weak) over vitality (the strong). The immense strength of the Roman Empire could not be overwhelmed in a physical sense; Judea's inferiority manifested as hatred for Roman rule. Judaism redefined the strength of the Roman Empire as evil, weak, or depraved, envisioning a wrathful God who would effect a revenge. "Jewish" weakness caused hatred for Roman overlordship, which was thus damned as evil, merely because it dared to be strong."

There is nothing to comment on. I do not see how this deals with epistemology. Human knowledge is a subjective view of an objective reality. One's emotions has nothing to do with propositional logic.

As for nietzche, he never proposed any systematic philosophy - merely a hodge-podge of essays more suited in psychology rather than political science or ethics.

He was declared clinically mad prior to his death, fyi - which neatly summarizes my opinion of his work.

 

[numinus]

Soooo lets see it. Show me ANYTHING from the bible that was used to justify the actions of the Catholic church.

http://www.catholic.com/library/Peter_and_the_Papacy.asp

Then two important things were told the apostle. "Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven" (Matt. 16:19). Here Peter was singled out for the authority that provides for the forgiveness of sins and the making of disciplinary rules. Later the apostles as a whole would be given similar power [Matt.18:18], but here Peter received it in a special sense.

So, tell me - is there an end to your ignorance?

 

[jb_1430]

http://www.catholic.com/library/Peter_and_the_Papacy.asp

Then two important things were told the apostle. "Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven" (Matt. 16:19). Here Peter was singled out for the authority that provides for the forgiveness of sins and the making of disciplinary rules. Later the apostles as a whole would be given similar power [Matt.18:18], but here Peter received it in a special sense.

So, tell me - is there an end to your ignorance?

I dont have this need of yours to proclaim your ignorance in every other post. You do it just fine each time you post.
Not sure what kind of tortured interpretation of those verses the Catholics used to justify atrocities. Islam is up front and straight about it.

[2.191] And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers.

[2.193] And fight with them until there is no persecution, and religion should be only for Allah...

2.216] Fighting is enjoined on you, and h is an object of dislike to you; and it may be that you dislike a thing while it is good for you, and it may be that you love a thing while it is evil for you, and Allah knows, while you do not know.

[2.244] And fight in the way of Allah,...

[2.246] ...May it not be that you would not fight if fighting is ordained for you? They said: And what reason have we that we should not fight in the way of Allah, and we have indeed been compelled to abandon our homes and our children. But when fighting was ordained for them, they turned back, except a few of them, and Allah knows the unjust.

[3.169] And reckon not those who are killed in Allah's way as dead; nay, they are alive (and) are provided sustenance from their Lord;

[4.74] Therefore let those fight in the way of Allah, who sell this world's life for the hereafter; and whoever fights in the way of Allah, then be he slain or be he victorious, We shall grant him a mighty reward.

[4.76] Those who believe fight in the way of Allah, and those who disbelieve fight in the way of the Shaitan. Fight therefore against the friends of the Shaitan; surely the strategy of the Shaitan is weak.

[9.5] So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

[9.29] Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.

[9.111] Surely Allah has bought of the believers their persons and their property for this, that they shall have the garden; they fight in Allah's way, so they slay and are slain;

[9.123] O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness; and know that Allah is with those who guard (against evil).

[47.4] So when you meet in battle those who disbelieve, then smite the necks until when you have overcome them,

48.16] Say to those of the dwellers of the desert who were left behind: You shall soon be invited (to fight) against a people possessing mighty prowess; you will fight against them until they submit; then if you obey, Allah will grant you a good reward; and if you turn back as you turned back before, He will punish you with a painful punishment.

[5.44]... and whoever did not judge by what Allah revealed, those are they that are the unbelievers.

[5.45] ..and whoever did not judge by what Allah revealed, those are they that are the unjust.

[5.47] ... and whoever did not judge by what Allah revealed, those are they that are the transgressors.

[5.48] And We have revealed to you the Book with the truth, verifying what is before it of the Book and a guardian over it, therefore judge between them by what Allah has revealed,

[12.40] ... judgment is only Allah's; He has commanded that you shall not serve aught but Him; this is the right religion but most people do not know:
http://quod.lib.umich.edu/k/koran/browse.html

 

[numinus]

I dont have this need of yours to proclaim your ignorance in every other post. You do it just fine each time you post.
Not sure what kind of tortured interpretation of those verses the Catholics used to justify atrocities. Islam is up front and straight about it.

That is as 'up front and straight about it' as can ever be. Within that verse lies the WHOLE DOCTRINE OF PAPAL INFALLIBILITY. It establishes the SUPREMACY of the petric tradition against ALL other christian traditions.

A few days ago, your ignorance was mildly amusing. Now, it isn't even that. It is simply an utter bore.

 

[numinus]

show me where Germany and South Africa are non-secular.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History..._Apartheid_era

There are numerous distinct differences between segregation and apartheid:

Segregation was a more elastic strategy which was not officially concurrent with religious ideas; apartheid was ostensibly based on a Christian National dogma of the 'calling' and 'mission' of Afrikanerdom.

 

[jb_1430]

That is as 'up front and straight about it' as can ever be. Within that verse lies the WHOLE DOCTRINE OF PAPAL INFALLIBILITY. It establishes the SUPREMACY of the petric tradition against ALL other christian traditions.

A few days ago, your ignorance was mildly amusing. Now, it isn't even that. It is simply an utter bore.

Your demonstrating my point for me.

Christian doctrine was used to justify atrocities.

Soooo lets see it. Show me ANYTHING from the bible that was used to justify the actions of the Catholic church.

and the best you can do is

19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of Heaven: whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven; whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.'
18 'In truth I tell you, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven; whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.

Takes a pretty freakin tortured interpretation of those two verses to justify atrocities. Especially when compared to -

[2.191] And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers.
[2.193] And fight with them until there is no persecution, and religion should be only for Allah...

2.216] Fighting is enjoined on you, and h is an object of dislike to you; and it may be that you dislike a thing while it is good for you, and it may be that you love a thing while it is evil for you, and Allah knows, while you do not know.

[2.244] And fight in the way of Allah,...

[2.246] ...May it not be that you would not fight if fighting is ordained for you? They said: And what reason have we that we should not fight in the way of Allah, and we have indeed been compelled to abandon our homes and our children. But when fighting was ordained for them, they turned back, except a few of them, and Allah knows the unjust.

[3.169] And reckon not those who are killed in Allah's way as dead; nay, they are alive (and) are provided sustenance from their Lord;

[4.74] Therefore let those fight in the way of Allah, who sell this world's life for the hereafter; and whoever fights in the way of Allah, then be he slain or be he victorious, We shall grant him a mighty reward.

[4.76] Those who believe fight in the way of Allah, and those who disbelieve fight in the way of the Shaitan. Fight therefore against the friends of the Shaitan; surely the strategy of the Shaitan is weak.

[9.5] So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

[9.29] Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.

[9.111] Surely Allah has bought of the believers their persons and their property for this, that they shall have the garden; they fight in Allah's way, so they slay and are slain;

[9.123] O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness; and know that Allah is with those who guard (against evil).

[47.4] So when you meet in battle those who disbelieve, then smite the necks until when you have overcome them,

48.16] Say to those of the dwellers of the desert who were left behind: You shall soon be invited (to fight) against a people possessing mighty prowess; you will fight against them until they submit; then if you obey, Allah will grant you a good reward; and if you turn back as you turned back before, He will punish you with a painful punishment.

 

[numinus]

Your demonstrating my point for me.





and the best you can do is



Takes a pretty freakin tortured interpretation of those two verses to justify atrocities. Especially when compared to -

Papal infallibility is codified in the dogmatic constitution of the church - which in turn was used for all sorts of wars.

And what do you suppose hadiths are if not the analogous equivalent of the dogmatic constitution of the church, eh?

As I said, absolutely no critical thought can be discerned from you.

 

[bewitched]

That is as 'up front and straight about it' as can ever be. Within that verse lies the WHOLE DOCTRINE OF PAPAL INFALLIBILITY. It establishes the SUPREMACY of the petric tradition against ALL other christian traditions.

A few days ago, your ignorance was mildly amusing. Now, it isn't even that. It is simply an utter bore.

gez, what a bad attitude you have to go along with your name calling and other rude remarks.
you will never understand the enemy.
I wish you luck. you're gonna need it.

 

[numinus]

gez, what a bad attitude you have to go along with your name calling and other rude remarks.

Bad attitude???

My attitude, fyi, is impecably pleasing. Nothing but sunshine and cheer.

you will never understand the enemy.
I wish you luck. you're gonna need it.

The only thing I do not understand is your utter infatuation with goat-herder logic. I'm afraid no amount of luck would help me on that one.

 

[jb_1430]

Papal infallibility is codified in the dogmatic constitution of the church - which in turn was used for all sorts of wars.

Aaaand your still making my point for me. They used the "dogmatic constitution of the church", catholic doctrine, not biblical doctrine. Biblical doctrine established Peter as the leader of the disciples, nothing more.

 

[jb_1430]

gez, what a bad attitude you have to go along with your name calling and other rude remarks.

Its the only substance in his posts. He needs something to respond with.