???? Noooo. Only Catholics consider them to have any authority whatsoever. Haddiths were written by Muhammads companions, canons were written centuries after christ. Those canons justifying the crusades no longer have any authority even in the Catholic Church, haddiths are forever, so far.
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Understanding the Enemy
- Thread starter bewitched
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???? Noooo. Only Catholics consider them to have any authority whatsoever. Haddiths were written by Muhammads companions, canons were written centuries after christ. Those canons justifying the crusades no longer have any authority even in the Catholic Church, haddiths are forever, so far.
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Perhaps the meaning of "New" within the term "NEW Testament" escapes you. Its like a centuries old canon that has been replaced by a new one.
bewitched
Well-Known Member
so who is under the impression that Christianity is the enemy?
Coyote
Well-Known Member
It has not been replaced - the OT is still valid as is evidenced by constant references to it. Christianity recognizes the two of them together. (Ten Commandments anyone?). Unless you cherry pick.
Coyote
Well-Known Member
Haddiths weren't written until over a hundred years after the death of Mohammad.
You couldnt have provided a better example of my point. I and others have presented verse after verse of commandments made to Muslims by Muhammad such as "slay the idolaters, verse after verse of hadiths extolling the virtues of jihad spoken by muhammad to the Muslims. Ive asked repeatedly for this Christian doctrine that you all say is just like the verses of Islamic text we have quoted. Finally you cough something up, and we might presume this is your best available evidence of what you allege, and this is what you have.
Mark 7:9 in fact is not Jesus being critical of anybody because it is the "Pharisees and teachers of the law" who were critical of Jesus' disciples, asking them "Why don't your disciples live according to the tradition of the elders instead of eating their food with 'unclean' hands?" Jesus responds to them quoting Moses.
Luke? The Parable of the Ten Minas? Nooooo, Jesus is ordering nobody to do anything. Its a parable about a king who "orders killed anyone who refuses to be ruled by him".
I would accuse you of being a liar, but I know you just glomed it off some anti christian website making some lame arguement that christianity is just as violent as Islam. Another point would be that there are not any Christians using these verses to justify killing anybody. If there were, I couldnt really be critical of the doctrine because they are twisting the doctrine to mean something that CLEARLY defies the plain meaning of the words. "Jesus orders killed"??? nooooo Jesus is telling a parable about a non existant king who "orders killed".
Coyote
Well-Known Member
By the way, Muslims themselves aren't unified as to the role of the Hadiths.
According to Wikipedia:
The overwhelming majority of Muslims consider hadith to be essential supplements to and clarifications of the Qur'an, Islam's holy book. In Islamic jurisprudence, the Qur'an contains many rules for the behavior expected of Muslims. However, there are many matters of concern, both religious and practical, on which there are no specific Qur'anic rules. Muslims believe that they can look at the way of life, or sunnah, of Muhammad and his companions to discover what to imitate and what to avoid. Muslim scholars also find it useful to know how Muhammad or his companions explained the revelations, or upon what occasion Muhammad received them. Sometimes this will clarify a passage that otherwise seems obscure. Hadith are a source for Islamic history and biography. For the vast majority of devout Muslims, authentic hadith are also a source of religious inspiration.
However, some contemporary Muslims argue that the Qur'an alone is sufficient. Examples of such Muslims groups are Tolu-e-Islam (Resurgence of Islam), Free Minds, and United Submitters International. Muslims who take the "Qur'an alone" viewpoint are regarded as deviant by mainstream Muslim scholars, and by the vast majority of Muslims. Hadith-trusting Muslims argue that many Qur'anic instructions are impossible to fulfill without guidance from the ahadith. (The Qur'an does not, for example, specify how many prayer cycles constitute fulfillment of each of the daily prayers. See salat.) It is also important to note that most Muslims claim that the Qur'an cannot be fully explained by itself alone or read with complete understanding -- which is why the Hadith is referred to as the "second source" of Islam. While the Qur'an states "We have made it (the Qur'an) easy to understand and in your own tongue (language) may you take heed." (Qur'an 44:58), there are great debates between Muslims regarding the views stated in the Qur'an, and also those stated in the Hadith.
According to Wikipedia:
The overwhelming majority of Muslims consider hadith to be essential supplements to and clarifications of the Qur'an, Islam's holy book. In Islamic jurisprudence, the Qur'an contains many rules for the behavior expected of Muslims. However, there are many matters of concern, both religious and practical, on which there are no specific Qur'anic rules. Muslims believe that they can look at the way of life, or sunnah, of Muhammad and his companions to discover what to imitate and what to avoid. Muslim scholars also find it useful to know how Muhammad or his companions explained the revelations, or upon what occasion Muhammad received them. Sometimes this will clarify a passage that otherwise seems obscure. Hadith are a source for Islamic history and biography. For the vast majority of devout Muslims, authentic hadith are also a source of religious inspiration.
However, some contemporary Muslims argue that the Qur'an alone is sufficient. Examples of such Muslims groups are Tolu-e-Islam (Resurgence of Islam), Free Minds, and United Submitters International. Muslims who take the "Qur'an alone" viewpoint are regarded as deviant by mainstream Muslim scholars, and by the vast majority of Muslims. Hadith-trusting Muslims argue that many Qur'anic instructions are impossible to fulfill without guidance from the ahadith. (The Qur'an does not, for example, specify how many prayer cycles constitute fulfillment of each of the daily prayers. See salat.) It is also important to note that most Muslims claim that the Qur'an cannot be fully explained by itself alone or read with complete understanding -- which is why the Hadith is referred to as the "second source" of Islam. While the Qur'an states "We have made it (the Qur'an) easy to understand and in your own tongue (language) may you take heed." (Qur'an 44:58), there are great debates between Muslims regarding the views stated in the Qur'an, and also those stated in the Hadith.
Coyote
Well-Known Member
So in other words you are providing context and analysis to Christian passages which you deny to Muslim ones... .
bewitched
Well-Known Member
back to reality folks....
here's an example of the enemy at work:
WASHINGTON (AP) -- A former congressman and delegate to the United Nations was indicted Wednesday as part of a terrorist fundraising ring that allegedly sent more than $130,000 to an al Qaeda and Taliban supporter who has threatened U.S. and international troops in Afghanistan.
The former Republican congressman from Michigan, Mark Deli Siljander, was charged with money laundering, conspiracy and obstructing justice for allegedly lying about lobbying senators on behalf of an Islamic charity that authorities said was secretly sending funds to terrorists.
A 42-count indictment, unsealed in U.S. District Court in Kansas City, Missouri, accuses the Islamic American Relief Agency of paying Siljander $50,000 for the lobbying -- money that turned out to be stolen from the U.S. Agency for International Development.
Siljander, who served two terms in the U.S. House of Representatives, was appointed by President Reagan to serve as a U.S. delegate to the United Nations for one year in 1987.
here's an example of the enemy at work:
WASHINGTON (AP) -- A former congressman and delegate to the United Nations was indicted Wednesday as part of a terrorist fundraising ring that allegedly sent more than $130,000 to an al Qaeda and Taliban supporter who has threatened U.S. and international troops in Afghanistan.
The former Republican congressman from Michigan, Mark Deli Siljander, was charged with money laundering, conspiracy and obstructing justice for allegedly lying about lobbying senators on behalf of an Islamic charity that authorities said was secretly sending funds to terrorists.
A 42-count indictment, unsealed in U.S. District Court in Kansas City, Missouri, accuses the Islamic American Relief Agency of paying Siljander $50,000 for the lobbying -- money that turned out to be stolen from the U.S. Agency for International Development.
Siljander, who served two terms in the U.S. House of Representatives, was appointed by President Reagan to serve as a U.S. delegate to the United Nations for one year in 1987.
And another good example of our point. Here are the above verses. I skipped the Acts:10 as I cant imagine what it was included for. They dont advocate war against unbelievers.
No, I am providing the text. Ignore my words and read the text using a literal interpretation and you can plainly see that your claim is a LIE. Jesus isnt commanding anybody to do anything. "Jesus orders killed"??? Its a fabricated lie. Are you actually arguing that your interpretation is supported by the text???? You are more delusional than I thought if so. Tel you what, why dont you just copy and paste from the text the words that lead you to conclude that "Jesus orders killed anyone who refuses to be ruled by him" as youve not yet provided ANY quotes to support your assertions.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=49&chapter=19&version=31
bewitched
Well-Known Member
thread hijacked.
by Jesus.
call the cops.
by Jesus.
call the cops.
Your making my point. And
Bukhari Haddiths is primarily what Ive posted from here on the group. Put Jihad in the search function, and then try to argue with a straight face that Jihad is an inner struggle with oneself.
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/reference/searchhadith.html
just the first one that comes up on the search
bewitched
Well-Known Member
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