Understanding the Enemy

You WANT me to be lieing...You NEED me to be lieing. But simple fact is...I'm not. I have nothing to gain by lieing...I made a simple statement of fact about terrorism exsisting already here in our country through extremist hate groups...And you're the one wanting the exact numbers, the whole story, etc. of each individual incident...

Darling, youve presented nothing regarding "hate crimes" or "hate groups". I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and presume your "pamphlet" containing information that wasnt even released until last Monday, doesnt make clear that your statistics are for ALL crimes. This should make it clear to you that your statistics are in fact for ALL crimes, not "hate crimes"

http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/prelim2007/table4al_ca.htm
 
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Ive presented the written doctrine i am critical of, literal interpretations of that doctrine by so called respected Islamic scholars, and the writings of Islamic terrorist, espousing that doctrine to justify the need to "kill the Americans". Other than this belief of yours that criticism of the doctrine is criticism of 1.2 billion muslims, and your desire that I not do so, youve not really even presented anything relevant to my posts that you respond to.

Yet you ignore the writings of many respected Islamic scholars that denounce killing and your interpretation of jihad. Is it because they aren't fundamentalist?
 
Darling, youve presented nothing regarding "hate crimes" or "hate groups". I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and presume your "pamphlet" containing information that wasnt even released until last Monday, doesnt make clear that your statistics are for ALL crimes. This should make it clear to you that your statistics are in fact for ALL crimes, not "hate crimes"

http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/prelim2007/table4al_ca.htm

Actually, I just got it delivered...So why your focus on when it was listed on the site? I also have been told to expect another edition around mid June...Which I expect means they'll get it and send it out to their mailing lists same time it goes up on-line...Since from the short time I've had to look that link over, the numbers are matching...They've left out other portions of the stats...But overall the ones involving violence/property damage are the same.

Of course, I also get to have fun now with the group that sent it to me...Cause if what you are saying about the numbers is true...I'm not happy they are sending out information under false pretenses/not disclosing that it's ALL crimes...I'm also going to use that link to cross-check their other pamphlets they've been sending us since September.

Tell you what...I know I've got a link saved somewhere...Of a hate-group watcher site...I just don't know if I saved it before or after my computer crashed. :D

They don't tell you exact numbers of crimes committed by individual groups but they do tell you who the largest ones are, approximate number of those groups, membership of those groups, etc...But I do believe they do give an approximate number of hate related crimes each year.

Again though...I really do thank you for the link. It still doesn't change the facts though that hate groups exsist, or that crimes are committed by them and their members (including murders)...BUT it is a helpful link non-the-less.
 
Hey! Thank you for finding it on-line. :D At least that looks like what's in my booklet...I'll have to cross-check the numbers...See what the difference is there. That saves me alot of time copying from my book if the numbers match from the site to the pamphlet. But it doesn't seem to have the other states listed...

All the tables are at
http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/prelim2007/index.html
just click on the "table 4" has all the states. Have you yet recognized that it is ALL crimes, not "hate crimes"?
 
Actually, I just got it delivered...So why your focus on when it was listed on the site? I also have been told to expect another edition around mid June...Which I expect means they'll get it and send it out to their mailing lists same time it goes up on-line...Since from the short time I've had to look that link over, the numbers are matching...They've left out other portions of the stats...But overall the ones involving violence/property damage are the same.

Of course, I also get to have fun now with the group that sent it to me...Cause if what you are saying about the numbers is true...I'm not happy they are sending out information under false pretenses/not disclosing that it's ALL crimes...I'm also going to use that link to cross-check their other pamphlets they've been sending us since September.

Tell you what...I know I've got a link saved somewhere...Of a hate-group watcher site...I just don't know if I saved it before or after my computer crashed. :D

They don't tell you exact numbers of crimes committed by individual groups but they do tell you who the largest ones are, approximate number of those groups, membership of those groups, etc...But I do believe they do give an approximate number of hate related crimes each year.

Again though...I really do thank you for the link. It still doesn't change the facts though that hate groups exsist, or that crimes are committed by them and their members...BUT it is a helpful link non-the-less.
what kind of booklet is this and where did you get it?
 
Yet you ignore the writings of many respected Islamic scholars that denounce killing and your interpretation of jihad. Is it because they aren't fundamentalist?

the number of clerics denouncing jihad are outnumbered by those who preach hate and support violence. further can you name the names of these "peaceful" clerics? because alot of them are usually busted and shipped back to the Middle East because they are caught preaching or filtering money to terrorist organizations.
 
the number of clerics denouncing jihad are outnumbered by those who preach hate and support violence. further can you name the names of these "peaceful" clerics? because alot of them are usually busted and shipped back to the Middle East because they are caught preaching or filtering money to terrorist organizations.



According to who? The MSM?


I have named and quoted a number of Islamic clerics and scholars speaking out against terrorism and murder several times in threads here. I see no need to repeat myself or make the effort to dig it all up again since you'll only ignore it...again....Steve:D
 
And I would bet you anything, that if I was critical of the doctrine of "Christian Identity", you wouldnt bat an eye. But because I criticize the Islamic doctrine Im labeled with

hatred of Muslims... fear-mongering and hate-mongering agendas…Terrorist like yourself…your hatred, predjudices, and alarmist messages….ignorance, fear, false propaganda….some hate-filled ignorant, backwoods individual like yourself

you guys are SOOOOOOO transparent.
 
According to who? The MSM?


I have named and quoted a number of Islamic clerics and scholars speaking out against terrorism and murder several times in threads here. I see no need to repeat myself or make the effort to dig it all up again since you'll only ignore it...again....Steve:D
don't you just have a list of names?
I googled "clerics who denounce terrorism"
and came up with only this:
http://www.islamdenouncesterrorism.com/religionsdenounceterrorism.htm
 
Yet you ignore the writings of many respected Islamic scholars that denounce killing and your interpretation of jihad.

I have no interpretation of Jihad. Thats why I present the interpretations contained in the Haddiths. And I am thrilled when Islamic scholars dont preach those aspects of the doctrine. Unfortunately the doctrine remains and is preached by other scholars and is open to criticism.
Would peaceful members of "Christian Identity" also render the group immune from any criticism of their doctrine in your view, or is this special treatment for Islamic doctrine only?
 
I find it interesting that when she starts to put forth facts you resort to insults. I think you've lost this debate.

And I find it interesting that you accept as fact, anything that fits with your 'love to hate America' agend thats posted on an internet discussion forum. Even when these so called "facts" are shown to be nothing but propaganda for the eager sheep, the sheep will still believe.
 
don't you just have a list of names?
I googled "clerics who denounce terrorism"
and came up with only this:
http://www.islamdenouncesterrorism.com/religionsdenounceterrorism.htm

Isnt it comforting to know that some Muslims want to restore the Islamic Caliphate through peaceful means

The SRF is of the opinion that the way the Ottoman Empire allowed the members of all three divine religions to live together in an atmosphere of peace and tolerance sheds important light on the problems of the world today. For example, the Ottoman administration established a centuries-long environment of peace and tranquillity in Palestine, which has been in a state of conflict and chaos since the early 20th century. In Jerusalem under Ottoman hegemony Jews worshipped in their synagogues, Christians in their churches and Muslims in their mosques, and the three religions lived together in peace. The bloodshed in Palestine today can be stopped and the atmosphere of peace and brotherhood which existed in the region in Ottoman times re-established if the Ottoman vision is adopted anew.

What they wont tell you about the ottoman empire.

The Massacres of the Khilafah
http://debate.org.uk/topics/history/xstnc-6.html
 
And I find it interesting that you accept as fact, anything that fits with your 'love to hate America' agend thats posted on an internet discussion forum. Even when these so called "facts" are shown to be nothing but propaganda for the eager sheep, the sheep will still believe.

Who posted anything that said anything about 'love to hate America'? Are you saying I did? Where? I'd really love to see the post of mine that said I hated America...

Or are you confusing that I hate HATE GROUPS and their supporters, because of what they're turning America into into supposedly being I 'love to hate America'.

I hate the extremist groups/people that are violent and hate that are citizens here in our country...Who attack fellow citizens for no other reason then they hate whole groups of people because of preceived differences in race, religion, orientation, etc.

I do not hate my country...I love my country and want it to be better and safer. Because on whole, our citizens are not hateful nor support hate groups...But the few that do? They make it miserable for the majority of us who have to put up with their hate agenda being brought into our communities...I see those that hate-monger as those trying to destroy our country by dividing our citizens and terrorizing the innocent through intimidation, fear, and violence to join them in hating specific groups, races, religions, and sexual orientated people.

Just like the extremist Muslims that cause harm and misrepresentation for the majority of Muslims that aren't violent or hate.

Lovely twist there though JB...Because I can see the bigger picture, not focus it on just 'one' type of perferred threat you want to insinuate that I hate my country? LOL!

Tell you what...When you have people in your yard, firing guns at others because of their race. And as an innocent bystander minding your own business in your home, you become victim to that hate when the bullets start tearing through your home? When you have that moment thinking that one of your loved ones is the one everyone is screaming about saying 'he's been shot, he's been shot'...When that hate that was aimed at another tears two innocent lives from your womb from the physical as well as emotional trauma...When you have to listen to the doctors telling you that one of your babies died in uterous and the other isn't going to survive either and you should consider removing life support...Praying for days that a miracle would revive your child but complete breakdown when his little lungs and heart couldn't be revived anymore and you have no choice but to let go when you didn't even get the chance to hold on to that precious life and see it grow up...When it's not only your body torn up, but everything in your life and in your heart because another person hated someone because of their skin color....Then dear, you get can get back to me about what it's like to experience true terrorism on the home front.


9-11 was a horrible incident...But it's not the sole terrorist acts that happen on a daily basis either. I live in a war zone JB...I've watched the race related incidents esculate over the last 15 years in my area...I've watched as crime and race incidents moved closer and closer each year...Two years ago, it was a mile away...Few months later a few blocks away...Then the next block over, then down the street, Then a few doors over...Then to my own front yard.

People in our neighborhood don't go out at night...Doors locked tightly, windows drawn to hide their occupants...People jumping at the popping noises around us...People living in terror of who will hate next, who will be targetted, and who will be caught in the middle.

Sadder still is the fact that you really can't run from it. Cause hate exsists everywhere that haters live. Hate follows us everywhere...From anybody it harbors in.

Luckily my hubby delt with the hate groups that came knocking at our door because I spent nearly a month in the hospital between ICU, rehab, and trama watch. Those people thinking we'd join them because of what happened...'Protection in numbers. We'll watch your back cause us 'whites' need to stick together against them'...

Hate made the persons that terrorized our lives...Hate fed by hate. Hate shared by hate. Intolerance and total disrespect for those different then themselves.

So when you experience such terrorism first hand...Then we can compare notes...Not hypotheticals.

I don't hate my country or my people. I want those that hate to stop hurting those of us that don't hate. Simple as that. I want to love my country without fear of one of my fellow citizens take away anything else from me because they don't like who I am or they catch me in the cross-fire of hating someone else because of who they are.
 
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I have no interpretation of Jihad. Thats why I present the interpretations contained in the Haddiths. And I am thrilled when Islamic scholars dont preach those aspects of the doctrine. Unfortunately the doctrine remains and is preached by other scholars and is open to criticism.
Would peaceful members of "Christian Identity" also render the group immune from any criticism of their doctrine in your view, or is this special treatment for Islamic doctrine only?

Yes.

I don't criticize the doctrine but rather how it's interpreted and applied because that is what gives it meaning and power and that varies widely. Unlike you - I don't single out any one religion for emnity - I single out extremism and ignorance.
 
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