Understanding the Enemy

[numinus]

Well, a boy can have his dreams.

I'm not the one biting into goat-herder propaganda and rhetorics, am I?

 

[numinus]

you do understand that in Islam that political government and religion are one in the same, right?

They are NOT the same - although there is a considerable overlap in the exercise of political power.

A simple google-search into the government organization of predominantly 'islamic' countries would clarify this misconception. You are capable of this simple task, aren't you?

 

[numinus]

goat herder logic?
who are you talking about?
Bin Laden is a well educated scholar.
can you clarify?
and you understand that Islam includes government, religion and culture, right?

He isn't a scholar - he is an engineer.

And yeah, he's using goat-herder logic in the strategic conduct of his war.

 

[jb_1430]

I have never heard of the koran as having any practical value in military science. You obviously don't know what you're babbling about.



"Slay them where you find them" is a maxim in military science????? What idiotic nonsense!

I pray to god the us military is a lot smarter than you are.

LOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!!!! I guess that must be one of those Maxims in military science without "any practical value". I hope all the Islamic terrorists are just as smart as you.

 

[jb_1430]

A simple google-search into the government organization of predominantly 'islamic' countries would clarify this misconception. You are capable of this simple task, aren't you?

His comments were regarding "Islam", not predominantly 'islamic' countries.

 

[jb_1430]

Yes they are - although it is in the best interest of the terrorists for you to think otherwise.

I am amazed at how any rational person living in the 21st century could be thoroughly duped by goat-herder logic.

It isnt really relevant what you or I think. It is what the goat herders think.

The evidence that the appointment of a Khalifah is obligatory upon all Muslims is in the Quran, Sunnah and the Ijma' (consensus) of the Sahabah. ...

"And rule between them by that which Allah revealed to you, and do not follow their vain desires away from the truth which came to you". [TMQ 5:48]
"..Verily the 'Hukm' (command, Judgment) is for none but Allah.." [TMQ 12:40]
"Whoever does not judge by that which Allah has revealed, they are disbelievers" [TMQ 5:44]
"Whosoever does not judge by that which Allah has revealed, such are oppressors" [5:45]
"Whosoever does not judge by that which Allah has revealed, such are transgressors" [5:47]
...
Moreover, the Prophet ordered the Muslims to obey the Khaleefah and to fight those who dispute his authority as Khaleefah, which indicates an order to appoint a Khaleefah and to protect his Khilafah by fighting against whosoever disputes with him.

...
Khilafah.
1. Ibn Khaldoon defined it as: A representation, of the one who has the right to adopt the divine rules, aimed at protecting the Deen and ruling the world (Dunia) with it.
...
In summary, Khilafah is the ***POLITICAL**** (emphasis mine) system in Islam. It is responsible for implementing the Islamic system (be it social, economic, educational, foreign policy,...) and maintaining its implementation. It is also responsible for spreading the message of Islam to the world.
http://www.islamic-world.net/islamic.../theobasis.htm

 

[Coyote]

Correct.

I'd rather ignore the religious rhetoric meant to cover the political agenda.

Oh, and for the benefit of the low-brows in the forum, religious texts were never meant to be read like a grocery list. That's what hermeneutics is for. So you would do well to interpret them in the privacy of your own solitude because, quite frankly, you are an intellectual embarassment.

Exactly!!!!!!

And that is not the way real religious scholars read them.

 

[Coyote]

And, while secular organisations perpetrated approximately half of the human bombs up to 2001, Hoffman says, 31 out of 35 groups perpetrating terror today are jihadi. It is difficult to deny that religious inspiration is at work in the motivation and mobilisation of terror today.

From: http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,18852596-12332,00.html

Another hypothesis offered by Holmes in Making Sense of Suicide Missions is that religious practices, as opposed to beliefs, help sustain a bomber's convictions once he or she has committed to a mission. By crowding out cognitive functions, certain ritualistic activities and preparations - such as those depicted in the training manual for the September 11 bombers serve as physiological and psychological sedatives.

Performed in a group, they reify emotional loyalties and serve as a check against faltering in the mission's last moments. (Of the attacks done by al-Qa'ida in Pape's sample, for instance, 89 per cent were done in teams.)

Importantly, according to neuroscientific studies, ritual effects do not require religion. Any social ritual, where people are brought together in repetitive acts imbued with meaning, will do. That point may help us to understand the mass radicalisation of beliefs often observed in situations of emerging violence, where liturgies of loss become the order of the day.

 

[Coyote]

And, while secular organisations perpetrated approximately half of the human bombs up to 2001, Hoffman says, 31 out of 35 groups perpetrating terror today are jihadi.

Where does Hoffman get his numbers? There are far more then 35 active terrorist groups.

Just to give a little more perspective...here's a partial list of designated terrorist organizations officially listed as such. Some are no longer active but many are.

Religious Terrorist Organizations

Christian

1. * Army of God - An American anti-abortion terrorist group.
2. * God's Army - A terrorist group in Myanmar.
3. * Lord's Resistance Army - Christian/Pagan/Muslim terrorist group that operates in northern Uganda, it seeks to overthrow the Ugandan government and create a country based on the ten commandments.
4. * Nagaland Rebels (1947-present) Active in predominantly Christian state in Hindu majority India. Involved in several bombings in 2004. Goal: Independence from India after annexing parts of neighboring Indian states and Burma if it has Christian majority.
5. * National Liberation Front of Tripura (1989-present) A group that seeks the independence of Tripura from India to create a Christian Tripura.
6. * Phineas Priesthood An American based Christian Identity movement.
7. * National Democratic Front of Bodoland, active terrorist in the Indian state of Assam, involved in the murder of Bineshwar Brahma, prominent Hindu Bodo activist.


Islamist

1. * Abu Sayyaf (1991-present; Islamist separatists; the Philippines)
2. * Aden-Abyan Islamic Army (Yemen)
3. * Al-Gama'a al-Islamiyya (Late 1970s-present; Islamists; Egypt)
4. * Armed Islamic Group (1992-present; Islamists; Algeria)
5. * Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades
6. * Ansar al-Islam (December 2001-present; Islamists; Iraq)
7. * Al-Qaeda (1988-present; Islamists; Afghanistan, Pakistan, and worldwide)
8. * Asbat al-Ansar (early 1990s-present; Lebanese Sunni Islamists; southern Lebanon)
9. * Jama'at al-Tawhid wa'al-Jihad/Al-Qaeda in Iraq - Abu Musab al-Zarqawi's Sunni network, operating in Iraq
10. * Eastern Turkestan Islamic Movement - al-Qaeda linked separatist group in China's Xinjiang Autonomous Region aiming to establish an Islamic state. Banned by China, along with related groups East Turkestan Liberation Organization, World Uighur Youth Congress and East Turkistan Information Center
11. * Egyptian Islamic Jihad - Egypt (active since the late 1970s)
12. * Hamas - West Bank, Gaza Strip. Listed as a terrorist organization by Australia, Canada, the European Union, Israel, and the United States
13. * Harakat ul-Mujahidin (HUM) - Pakistan and Kashmir
14. * Hezbollah - Lebanon; Listed as a terrorist organization by Australia, Canada, the Netherlands, Israel, and the United States
15. * Hizbul Mujahideen - Pakistan and Kashmir
16. *Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan - Uzbekistan
17. * Jaish-e-Mohammed - Pakistan
18. * Jaish Ansar al-Sunna - Iraq
19. * Jemaah Islamiyah - Southeast Asia
20. * Jundallah - Iran and Pakistan (affiliated with the USA and Al-Qaeda)
21. * Lashkar-e-Jhangvi - Pakistan
22. * Lashkar-e-Toiba - Pakistan
23. * Moroccan Islamic Combatant Group - Morocco and Spain
24. * Moro Islamic Liberation Front - (Islamic separatists; the Philippines)
25. * Palestinian Islamic Jihad - Israel, West Bank, Gaza Strip
26. * People Against Gangsterism and Drugs - South Africa
27. * RSM or Rajah Solaiman Movement - Philippines
28. * Salafist Group for Preaching and Combat - Algeria
29. * Sipah-e-Sahaba Pakistan - Pakistan
30. * Students Islamic Movement of India - India
31. * Takfir wal-Hijra - Egypt/Sudan/Algeria
32. * Turkish Hezbollah - Kurdish organization operating in Turkey
33. * Turkish Islamic Jihad - Turkey


Jewish

1. * Jewish Defense League
2. * Kach
3. * Kahane Chai (designated as terrorist by Israel, the EU, and USA)
4. * Irgun


Sikh

1. * Babbar Khalsa
2. * International Sikh Youth Federation
3. * Khalistan Zindabad Force


Other

1. *Aum Supreme Truth (Aum Shinrikyo) - Japan (homicidal religious cult)



Those are just the religious terrorist groups - then you have the others which I won't list individually but:

Nationalistic terrorist organizations -- which number around 40 and while they may contain certain religious groups (for example for some of the Irish groups you have Protestants and Catholics and for some of the Arab groups you have Muslims but they are defined by their primary aims which are nationalistic not religious)

Anarchist terrorist organizations -- 5 are listed (they've got some great names like The Angry Brigade and the Conscientious Arsonists)

Then there are a sundry other political, ethnic and issue specific groups plus you have groups that fall into more then one category.

 

[numinus]

LOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!!!! I guess that must be one of those Maxims in military science without "any practical value".

Quite right.

It is possible to educate a baboon after all.

I hope all the Islamic terrorists are just as smart as you.

Apparently, they are smarter than you. It would be overkill if they were as smart as me.

 

[numinus]

It isnt really relevant what you or I think. It is what the goat herders think.

I'm not inclined to surrender my rational faculties, thank you very much. But I see you have.

 

[bewitched]

He isn't a scholar - he is an engineer.

And yeah, he's using goat-herder logic in the strategic conduct of his war.

wow. you are so freeking smart.
actually he's using Islamic theology to conduct the war.
maybe if you understood all that you wouldn't be rambling all this nonsense on this forum.

 

[bewitched]

It isnt really relevant what you or I think. It is what the goat herders think.

have you ever even met a goat herder that you speak of?
but you know how they think?
that's amazing.

 

[jb_1430]

Exactly!!!!!!

And that is not the way real religious scholars read them.

Perhaps your not familiar with the writings of Ibn Khaldoon

Khilafah.
1. Ibn Khaldoon defined it as: A representation, of the one who has the right to adopt the divine rules, aimed at protecting the Deen and ruling the world (Dunia) with it.

Intellectually, Ibn Khaldoon was well-educated, having studied (in Tunis first and Fez later) the Quran, Prophet Muhammad's Ahadeeth and other branches of Islamic studies such as dialectical theology, Shari'ah (Islamic Law or Jurisprudence, according to the Maliki School). He also studied Arabic literature, philosophy, mathematics and astronomy.
http://www.islamweb.net/ver2/archive/article.php?lang=E&id=92757

From his times to the present, Islamic scholars have had this same interpretation.

 

[jb_1430]

I'm not inclined to surrender my rational faculties, thank you very much. But I see you have.

When trying to understand your enemy (topic of the thread) your views are irrelevant. And if they have surrendered their rational faculties to religious doctrine, this is important to understanding that enemy. Im sure Tzu probably said something about the motivations of your enemy and understanding them.