The "Why We're In Iraq" Checklist

[Truth-Bringer]

This is the second post I have seen from you complaining about me in the last five minutes. Do you do that for everyone?

No, just for the trolls I've encountered in other forums. I'm just giving them the low down.

If it is so obvious, wont they see it for themselves?

Absolutely. As I said, I'm just trying to save them some time.

 

[Sadistic Savior]

You said on the 2nd page you were willing to take the risk of allowing the government to slowly steal your freedoms by putting in place more and more terror laws. Can't you see, these terror laws are not just for abroad, they are for your homeland. They're to restrict you and what you do so that the government can have an easy ride when it comes to disobedient citizens in the future.

There is not a single law in the US that cannot be altered. Not one. Not even the Constitution.

If we decide to remove the terror laws, there is not a damn thing the government can do to stop us. All we have to do is elect politicians into office that share our views. The power is entirely our's.

Slowly but surely, we are having our freedoms taken away from us, for the greater good.

...and with our consent, because the alternatives are worse.

We can regain those "freedoms" any time we choose.

The question is, how far will they take it, how soon will we be in a 1984-style world?

When it gets to the point where we have given up power we cannot regain, that is when we enter a 1984-style world. So far that has not happened, and it is extremely unlikely to happen in the future. Liberals grossly exaggerate the situation.

Exactly what freedoms have you lost that are irreplacable?

What we need is for the world to run out of oil and pull everything back three or four decades to a time when we had a bit more freedom.

The trade-offs we would have to make would be unacceptable IMO. I prefer what we have now. And I think the vast majority of Americans would as well.

The good old days werent always good and tomorrow isnt as bad as it seems.

 

[OPGhostdog]

I can. But Im not a muslim like you. I have different standards of morality. MARK

Mark!!!! What does being a Muslim have to do with today's reality?,
and the only reason why you can is because you're a Bush supporter.
That's the problem now...you Bush people seem to think that Bush is
some kinda GOD, and I am thinking in a completely different direction.

I can tell by your hate that you are not a Muslim...Mark, and you are
like your political partners who believe in different standards of moral-
ity. Which to me is a plain simple case of Religious discrimination, and
yes I am a member of the Muslim faith, and do believe in our traditions.

Now This is a reply to Sadistic Savior's post # 10. You need to re-edit
that entire post, due to the fact that you is one of these individuals
with a mindset of their own, and you are trying to quote everything I
have said in your own words.

 

[Sadistic Savior]

Now This is a reply to Sadistic Savior's post # 10. You need to re-edit that entire post, due to the fact that you is one of these individuals with a mindset of their own, and you are trying to quote everything I have said in your own words.

All of your quotes are verbatum. I did not modify them. If you believe I misinterpreted your words, feel free to clarify.

Since I believe my itnerpretation was accurate, I have no intention of editing my post further.

 

[OPGhostdog]

Whether we did or not is irrelevant,
since we were correct not to simply take Saddam's word for it either way.
It was reasonable to assume he was probably lying, given his continual
interference with inspectors.

If so, we rubber stamped it. Bush is not a dictator...he could not have done
anything without our consent. Congress CHOSE to give him war powers,
and we elected Congress.

So do you believe that Americans voted to allow the war because they wanted oil?
It is obvious to everyone that Bush is better. Thats why statements such as this
are ridiculed so much. It shows how completely out of touch you people are.

Yes, you and your tiny minority are the only ones who believe that Bush is not
better than Saddam.

Yes. There is a double standard. Democracies are allowed to have such weapons. Non-democracies are not.

No, it's not fair. nor should it be.

Can you give a specific example?

Give me an example where any of the above organizations deliberately
targeted civilians with the intention of spreading terror.

So you're telling me that Bush don't lie? and why should non-Bushers
believe his lying ass?

If so, we rubber stamped it.
Bush is not a dictator...he could not have done anything without our consent.
Congress CHOSE to give him war powers, and we elected Congress.

At the time Congress was majority of Republicians, and they are the
ones who voted...have you forgot the majority rules?

It is obvious to everyone that Bush is better.

Who is everybody? Everybody isn't kissing Bush's butt or is thinking
that he is doing a great job by killing innocent people in the Middle East.

your tiny minority are the only ones who believe
that Bush is not better than Saddam.

Again, Who said Saddam was a great leader?, and I know damn well
that Bush was never a leader with his vote steal ass.

Give me an example where any of the above organizations
deliberately targeted civilians with the intention of spreading terror.

In Closing, You must be drunk off of Mountain Dew, or are you just
stuck on being ignorant? Look at the last quote of yours where you
asked me to give you an example. Whereas if you understand my
post it is mentioned in there. The agencies I named is in on whatever
the President orders.

 

[Sadistic Savior]

So you're telling me that Bush don't lie?

I have been debating a long time on forums like this. To date not a single person has been able to prove that Bush lied about anything.

Being wrong is not the same as lying. Having a strong opinion is not the same as lying.

and why should non-Bushers believe his lying ass?

No one says you have to. But it is only your opinion that he has lied...it hasnt been objectively proven.

At the time Congress was majority of Republicians, and they are the ones who voted...

It was not only republicans that voted to give him war powers. At least two Democrat Presidential candidates did as well. No one forced them to do that.

have you forgot the majority rules?

Not all majorities are the same. Some of our laws require a 2/3 majority.

Me: It is obvious to everyone that Bush is better.

Who is everybody?

In this context, "everybody" is the vast majority of the American population.

Everybody isn't kissing Bush's butt or is thinking
that he is doing a great job by killing innocent people in the Middle East.

Please post your evidence that Bush has ordered the deliberate killing of innocent people in the Middle East.

You: Another issue is most of you posters is always barking about what Saddam did, but how many of you can say that Bush is any better?

Me: your tiny minority are the only ones who believe that Bush is not better than Saddam.

Again, Who said Saddam was a great leader?,

That is called a Strawman.

I was not countering the claim that someone said Saddam was a great leader. I was countering the implication by you that Bush is as bad or worse than Saddam. He obviously is not to most people.

and I know damn well
that Bush was never a leader with his vote steal ass.

If you have evidence, feel free to present it.

Under our system, the Presidential election is determined by the electoral college, not popular vote.

In any event, he won both in the second election anyway...which means that he gained support over his first term.

Me: Give me an example where any of the above organizations deliberately targeted civilians with the intention of spreading terror.

In Closing, You must be drunk off of Mountain Dew, or are you just stuck on being ignorant?

Is that an admission that you cannot provide an example where any of the above organizations deliberately targeted civilians with the intention of spreading terror?

Whereas if you understand my post it is mentioned in there.

Can you quote it? I did not see an actual example.

The agencies I named is in on whatever the President orders.

You did not provide specific example, just accusations. They are not guilty simply because you accuse them.

 

[jb_1430]

We aren't talking about terrrorism, we are talking about going against the Geneva convention.

As for the Muslim comment, thats blatant racism Mark.

Muslim isnt a race and I dont even know what race ghostdog belongs to. My comment had nothing to do with race, let alone racism. MARK

 

[OPGhostdog]

I have been debating a long time on forums
like this. To date not a single person has been able to prove that Bush lied
about anything.

Damn Sadistic, You don't believe a damn thing anyone say, but your
mouth is a pray book? Your ignorances is pissing me off. Who really
care about how long you been on the internet forums? A single person
has given the reply that you wanna hear. Bush lied when he gave the
reason for going into Iraq, and bringing Saddam down...that's 1 of his lies.

being wrong is not the same as lying.
Having a strong opinion is not the same as lying.
This statement makes you a Joke.

But it is only your opinion that he has lied...
it hasnt been objectively proven.
It was not only republicans that voted to give him war powers.
At least two Democrat Presidential candidates did as well.
No one forced them to do that.

That's why they did not win their candidancy.


Not all majorities are the same. Some of our laws require a 2/3
majority. In this context, "everybody" is the vast majority of the
American population. Sadistic Savior, you must be a true Bush
fan? It seems to me you are a confused individual who like to shift
things on other peoples opinions and thoughts.

Please post your evidence that Bush has ordered the deliberate killing
of innocent people in the Middle East. Damn Sadistic, you need help badly
Listen, Bush is the one who ordered the invasion of Iraq in the beginning,
without really realizing the innocent lifes that would be taken, and once
he did realize the fact he has done NOTHING to stop it. Now its so bad
until we have losted thousands and thousands of our Troopers lifes,
and Bush still havn't had enough yet.


I was not countering the claim that someone said Saddam was a great leader.
I was countering the implication by you that Bush is as bad or
worse than Saddam. He obviously is not to most people. Again Sadistic,
you are calling me out about my opinion, and like I said Bush is the
worse President United States ever had.

[Sadistic Savior] Under our system, the Presidential election is determined
by the electoral college, not popular vote. In any event, he won both
in the second election anyway...which means that he gained
support over his first term.

Is that an admission that you cannot provide
an example where any of the above organizations deliberately targeted
civilians with the intention of spreading terror?

Sadistic ..Have you ever served in any branch of the Arm Services?
Don't lie by claiming you served anywhere, and why I said that is
because IF you have ever experienced any kind of War contact you
wouldn't be posting that garbage you posting.

You did not provide specific example, just accusations. They are
not guilty simply because you accuse them.

I have accused
them based on past performance in Viet Nam, Somalia,Desert Storm,
and where ever else that the United States government wanted
interest.

What you need to do is to update yourself concerning foreign affairs,
and look at the facts about how many cold wars have we won? Plus
common senses will show you that most conflicts would have died
down if the American government agencies did not keep confusion
going.

I am pulling myself back from this paragenda bs you are trying to
run on me, and it won't work on me. So going play with your
toy duck. Again, like I have posted many times I am a Black, and
I am a Muslim.

 

[Sadistic Savior]

Damn Sadistic, You don't believe a damn thing anyone say

Look whose talking, heh heh

No, I am not going to assume someone is guilty merely because they are accused.

but your mouth is a pray book?

Um...when have I asked you to take my word for anything? I dont project my opinions as if they are fact.

Bush lied when he gave the reason for going into Iraq

What did he lie about? Can you quote him?

Me: being wrong is not the same as lying. Having a strong opinion is not the same as lying.

This statement makes you a Joke.

So you believe that if someone is wrong, that they are also lying?

If it makes you feel better to believe that, go right ahead. But most people do not define a lie as being wrong or having a strong opinion. I think your are in the minority.

Me: It was not only republicans that voted to give him war powers. At least two Democrat Presidential candidates did as well. No one forced them to do that.

That's why they did not win their candidancy.

The "why" is irrelevant. The fact is that they did it. They gave their consent to the war by doing that. No one forced them to do it.

Bush does not have the power to override Congress. The reverse is not true however.

Me: You did not provide specific example, just accusations. They are not guilty simply because you accuse them.

I have accused them based on past performance in Viet Nam, Somalia,Desert Storm, and where ever else that the United States government wanted interest.

That is an assumption, not proof. You gave reasons why you hold your opinion, but you have not given actual evidence that they have done what you accuse them of doing.

In America you are expected to provide evidence when accusing someone. They are not guilty by default.

What you need to do is to update yourself concerning foreign affairs

And I can only do that by adopting your point of view, is that what you are saying?

look at the facts about how many cold wars have we won?

What does that have to do with anything? Please clarify.

(The answer is: at least one)

I am pulling myself back from this paragenda bs you are trying to run on me, and it won't work on me.

You should do what makes you feel better. No one is forcing you to respond to my posts. I am perfectly happy to simply comment on your's.

Again, like I have posted many times I am a Black, and I am a Muslim.

Irrelevant even if true. On an anonymous forum, credentials mean nothing. only the argument (and the evidence or logic used to support it) matters.

 

[OPGhostdog]

[quoted=Sadistic Savior] Irrelevant even if true. On an anonymous
forum, credentials mean nothing. only the argument.

Anonymous!!!! Hahahaha That's another joke. Why should any
one hide or conceal their ID if they have nothing to hide? Believe
me I have NOTHING to hide, and I do stand behind anything that
I will say or do.

Or is it hard for many of you blue eyed devils to accept the truth
from a well educated Black Brother? This has been the problem with
the Anglo-Saxons (whites here in America). They have always wanted
to be the ones who is always right, and everyone else is always wrong.

Sadistic Savior, To live a life as a Muslim, and to be looking from the
outside in is two different means of education. AKA Know What You
Are Talking About.

 

[Sadistic Savior]

Me: Irrelevant even if true. On an anonymous forum, credentials mean nothing. Only the argument.

Anonymous!!!!

Did I stutter?

Hahahaha That's another joke.

No. This is my serious face.

Why should any one hide or conceal their ID if they have nothing to hide?

Because their argument has no merit without credentials to back it up. That seems obvious to me. There are many reasons people would lie on an anonymous forum. Egos run rampant here.

Believe me I have NOTHING to hide, and I do stand behind anything that I will say or do.

Maybe. But I dont know you. So I am unwilling to simply take your word for it.

Or is it hard for many of you blue eyed devils to accept the truth from a well educated Black Brother?

Would you just accept my claims without evidence too? Dont be a hypocrite.

This has been the problem with the Anglo-Saxons (whites here in America). They have always wanted to be the ones who is always right, and everyone else is always wrong.

I am not asking you to take my word for anything though. By contrast, you ARE asking me to assume you are correct.

Sadistic Savior, To live a life as a Muslim, and to be looking from the outside in is two different means of education. AKA Know What You Are Talking About.

I have not seen evidence that you know more than I do. What makes you so special that you should be held to a different standard than everyone else?

 

[palerider]

I've dealt with this fraud before folks. If you thought palerider was on crack, just wait til you get a load of this Neocon nutcase.

You say that like you beleive you have actually won an argument with me. Talk about being on crack.

 

[OPGhostdog]

Did I stutter?

No. This is my serious face.

Because their argument has no merit without credentials to back it up. That seems obvious to me. There are many reasons people would lie on an anonymous forum. Egos run rampant here.

Would you just accept my claims without evidence too?....

[Ghostdog...Reply]
The answer would depend on how much merit your statement
have, and if I can be one who accept that you posted a simple
reply or answer.

I have not seen evidence that you know more than I do.
What makes you so special that you should be held to a
different standard than everyone else?

Sadistic, I do not and will not try to impress you or anyone else
by reply with a bunch of political BS. These debate forums was
designed for level minded individuals to sign onto to exchange
political viewpoints, and not for the purpose to tell someone
that their wrong for expressing their opinions or thoughts a
certain way.

In closing, I am going to use your exact words as an example.

I have not seen evidence that you know
more than I do. What makes you so special that you should be
held to a different standard than everyone else?

You're questioning me in a indirect way, due to the fact that you
have become defensive, and it shows where you're on here to
argue issues instead of contributing to seeking out a solution.
Standards?? We all have certain standards that we live by, and
its not the point about one having standards...its about solving
the problem.

 

[Sadistic Savior]

Me: Would you just accept my claims without evidence too?....

The answer would depend on how much merit your statement have

Translation: No. Not unless my evidence supported your conclusion.

Sadistic, I do not and will not try to impress you or anyone else by reply with a bunch of political BS.

It is not necessary to impress me in order to support your argument with objective evidence.

These debate forums was designed for level minded individuals to sign onto to exchange political viewpoints, and not for the purpose to tell someone that their wrong for expressing their opinions or thoughts a certain way.

As far as I can tell you are not an administrator on this forum. So you cannot really know the motive for creating it any more than I can.

"Level headed" is an ambiguous and subjective term, which in my experience really means "people who agree with me".

In closing, I am going to use your exact words as an example."I have not seen evidence that you know more than I do. What makes you so special that you should be held to a different standard than everyone else?"

How am I holding you to a different standard than myself?

You're questioning me in a indirect way, due to the fact that you have become defensive, and it shows where you're on here to
argue issues instead of contributing to seeking out a solution.

if you really believe that, why do you respond to my posts at all?

We all have certain standards that we live by, and
its not the point about one having standards...its about solving the problem.

Before the problem can be solved we have to agree on what the variables are. You are expecting me to take your word for it what certain variables are. I am unwilling to do that. I suspect I am not the only one.

 

[OPGhostdog]

Quote=PoliticalGhostdog] Sadistic, I do not and will not try to impress you
or anyone else by reply with a bunch of political BS.

[qoute=PoliticialGhostdog] These debate forums was designed for level minded individuals to sign onto to exchange political viewpoints, and
not for the purpose to tell someone that their wrong for expressing their opinions or thoughts a certain way.

Sadistic Savior said..It is not necessary to impress me in order to support your argument with objective evidence. As far as I can tell you are not an administrator on this forum. So you cannot really know the motive for creating it any more than I can.

Asshole who said I was, and if I was I banned your a88 for being
ignorant. Why do you twist **** up to suit your benefits?
Where in my above quote sentences do you read where I said
that I am this site's administrator?

You are showing me just how self-centered,ignorant, and selfish you
are, and I bet you did not read this sites Terms of Service agreement.
Because if you did you would not have posted a pre-school statement
concerning me being the administrator.

Common senses would tell anyone who enter this site what the motive
was behind the creation of this site. Plus you must not have completed
the fifth grade, due to the fact that your reading comprehension is
way down. Anytime you can't see or realize the motive that this site's
Creator or Administrator used to develop this site.

Sadistic Savior, I suggest that you go play with someone else on this
site that believes in your childish bull****. Now I have came to you
in a nicely matter, and if you continue your childplay I shall submit a
complaint against you to the Administrator on the grounds of harrassment,
and on the violations of the terms of service agreement.