The Forgotten Founders

[GenSeneca]

Your rhetoric toward the Supreme Court and lower courts would be justified if there was one shred of fact behind it. As it is, it's just more radical right wing jargon for "they passed laws I don't like and I hate them for it".

So the Court's pass laws now?

The rest of us compromise and move on.

And now America has been compromised.

 

[GenSeneca]

Just like those damn activist judges who said seperate but equal was not constitutional...becuase its not...and many on the right did not agree with that...it was "Activist"

Democrats opposed integration, civil rights Act, and all other measures to establish minorities as having the same rights as whites. But a little historical revisionism and viola! They were all "right wingers".

it comes down to how one reads it and understands it.

Does the phrase, "Original Intent" mean anything to you?

activist is just code for, I don't like and or understand the ruling of a judge.

Judges who make a ruling contrary to the original intent of the law are activist judges. But since Progressives completely ignore original intent, you guys just make it up as you go along and pretend the Constitution says whatever you want it to say.

 

[clarkatticus]

Even in a Constitutional Republic, the majority votes. No, we are not a democracy, our forefathers did not want one, nor do I. Our nation is formed by compromise-it is not a dirty word. From the very first president we have altered the Constitution, even it's most ardent supporter and main founder, Madison, diviated from his own convictions and allowed the 2nd national bank to be licensed. The far right passed laws leading up to the 14th Amendment, which the left later returned the favor and passed the Civil Rights Act intentionally misreading the wording from the 14th amendment. No, SCOTUS does not pass laws, but they do uphold them-so sorry about the semantics. Can you not see your insipid whining is the same whining heard for the past 230 years? Guess the nation has done well despite deviating from the original language and intent of the some of the forefathers.As for opposition to the civil rights act, all the Dems that opposed it (mostly from the south) became Republicans, a cause and effect you can be proud of. Stand up and cheer! All the racists from the south have now joined your banner! Now, every time you want some votes, bring up Obama's "otherness"-they'll know what you mean.

 

[clarkatticus]

Democrats opposed integration, civil rights Act, and all other measures to establish minorities as having the same rights as whites. But a little historical revisionism and viola! They were all "right wingers".


Does the phrase, "Original Intent" mean anything to you?


Judges who make a ruling contrary to the original intent of the law are activist judges. But since Progressives completely ignore original intent, you guys just make it up as you go along and pretend the Constitution says whatever you want it to say.

Original intent? Whose? Hamilton's? Madisons?Washington's? Morris? Franklin? Pick which intent you want to use, most Justices use the Federalist Papers, but the 2 main authors, Madison and Hamilton fell out after it was ratified because Hamilton usurped power from the Congress and the states. For every quote you post from one, there is another opposing view, sometimes from the same author! Truthfully, the scholarly view of Constitutional law has passed your high school version a couple of centurys ago, US Constitutional law is just a romantic a term for what is reality, our law is highly evolved English Common Law.

 

[pocketfullofshells]

Democrats opposed integration, civil rights Act, and all other measures to establish minorities as having the same rights as whites. But a little historical revisionism and viola! They were all "right wingers".


Does the phrase, "Original Intent" mean anything to you?


Judges who make a ruling contrary to the original intent of the law are activist judges. But since Progressives completely ignore original intent, you guys just make it up as you go along and pretend the Constitution says whatever you want it to say.

you do know that liberal and conservitive and Democrat and Republican are not the same right?

Do you think Liberals said we should have jim crow laws and not have equal rights...and it was conservitives who wanted blacks to have rights and end things like all white schools and whites only business?

I bet you think MLK would have run as a Republican today as well...

go look up political realignment.....you think those "southern Democrats" would vote Democrat today? I doubt it, think they would be your tea party.

 

[GenSeneca]

you do know that liberal and conservitive and Democrat and Republican are not the same right?

You do know that Progressives are the polar opposite of Liberals, right?

Do you think Liberals said we should have jim crow laws and not have equal rights...

The "Liberals" were all Republicans, small government, lower taxes, equal rights... All the stuff Progressives oppose.

and it was conservitives who wanted blacks to have rights and end things like all white schools and whites only business?

Southern Democrats are members of the U.S. Democratic Party who reside in the American South. In the early 18th century, they were the definitive pro-slavery wing of the party, opposed to both the anti-slavery Republicans (GOP) and the more liberal Northern Democrats. ​

I bet you think MLK would have run as a Republican today as well...

I guess it depends on whether MLK would have supported equal rights for blacks, as the GOP does, or share the worldview of Democrats that the US must enact policies of Racial Discrimination to benefit blacks. Seeing that he beleived a man should be judged by the content of his character, rather than the color of his skin, I do think MLK would still be a Republican.

go look up political realignment.....you think those "southern Democrats" would vote Democrat today?

Of course they would... Democrat policy has managed to destroy the black family, keep millions of blacks dependent on government, aborts 50% of unborn black children, and 80%-95% of blacks vote for Democrats. The Southern Democrats would be proud of what the Democrat party has accomplished.

I doubt it, think they would be your tea party.

Tea Party supports Small Government, Low Taxes, and Free Markets. Again, all things Progressives, like you, oppose... So rather than act like an adult and discuss actual issues, we get childish rants about how the Tea Party is racist. Very Progressive of you.

 

[Gipper]

You do know that Progressives are the polar opposite of Liberals, right?


The "Liberals" were all Republicans, small government, lower taxes, equal rights... All the stuff Progressives oppose.

Southern Democrats are members of the U.S. Democratic Party who reside in the American South. In the early 18th century, they were the definitive pro-slavery wing of the party, opposed to both the anti-slavery Republicans (GOP) and the more liberal Northern Democrats. ​

I guess it depends on whether MLK would have supported equal rights for blacks, as the GOP does, or share the worldview of Democrats that the US must enact policies of Racial Discrimination to benefit blacks. Seeing that he beleived a man should be judged by the content of his character, rather than the color of his skin, I do think MLK would still be a Republican.


Of course they would... Democrat policy has managed to destroy the black family, keep millions of blacks dependent on government, aborts 50% of unborn black children, and 80%-95% of blacks vote for Democrats. The Southern Democrats would be proud of what the Democrat party has accomplished.


Tea Party supports Small Government, Low Taxes, and Free Markets. Again, all things Progressives, like you, oppose... So rather than act like an adult and discuss actual issues, we get childish rants about how the Tea Party is racist. Very Progressive of you.

Excellent post. Particularly your last two points.

Down goes Pockets...down goes Pockets...again!!!

How does he keep getting back up when he has been knocked down so many times???????

 

[PLC1]

You do know that Progressives are the polar opposite of Liberals, right?


The "Liberals" were all Republicans, small government, lower taxes, equal rights... All the stuff Progressives oppose.

Southern Democrats are members of the U.S. Democratic Party who reside in the American South. In the early 18th century, they were the definitive pro-slavery wing of the party, opposed to both the anti-slavery Republicans (GOP) and the more liberal Northern Democrats. ​

I guess it depends on whether MLK would have supported equal rights for blacks, as the GOP does, or share the worldview of Democrats that the US must enact policies of Racial Discrimination to benefit blacks. Seeing that he beleived a man should be judged by the content of his character, rather than the color of his skin, I do think MLK would still be a Republican.


Of course they would... Democrat policy has managed to destroy the black family, keep millions of blacks dependent on government, aborts 50% of unborn black children, and 80%-95% of blacks vote for Democrats. The Southern Democrats would be proud of what the Democrat party has accomplished.


Tea Party supports Small Government, Low Taxes, and Free Markets. Again, all things Progressives, like you, oppose... So rather than act like an adult and discuss actual issues, we get childish rants about how the Tea Party is racist. Very Progressive of you.

Southern Democrats were right wing members of the Democratic party who came from the South at a time when the Republican party was despised there as anti states rights.

The point being Democrat does not mean liberal, or progressive, or anything you associate with Democrats.

And they would have been a part of the tea party, as they stood for the conservatism being expressed by the tea party. They would not have voted the same way the current Democrats vote.

 

[GenSeneca]

Original intent? Whose? Hamilton's? Madisons?Washington's? Morris? Franklin?

Which founder stated that the Constitution's General Welfare clause gives government unlimited power to tax and spend?

Which founder stated that the powers of the federal government were NOT limited to only those powers outlined in the Enumerate Powers of the Constitution?

Which founder stated that the freedom of speech found in the 1st Amendment to the Constitution, "Congress shall make no law...abridging the freedom of speech...", was to be interpreted as Congress having full authority to make laws abridging the freedom of speech?

Which founder stated that "...the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed", should be interpreted as giving federal government full authority to infringe upon the people's right to keep and bear arms?

The far right passed laws leading up to the 14th Amendment, which the left later returned the favor and passed the Civil Rights Act

The "far right" sure did pass a bunch of laws leading up to the 14th Amendment... They even passed the 14th Amendment AND multiple civil rights acts. The Left "returned the favor" by opposing all of them...

April 9, 1866Republican Congress overrides Democrat President Johnson’s veto; Civil Rights Act of 1866, conferring rights of citizenship on African-Americans, becomes law

May 10, 1866
U.S. House passes Republicans’ 14th Amendment guaranteeing due process and equal protection of the laws to all citizens; 100% of Democrats vote no

June 8, 1866
U.S. Senate passes Republicans’ 14th Amendment guaranteeing due process and equal protection of the law to all citizens; 94% of Republicans vote yes and 100% of Democrats vote no

January 8, 1867
Republicans override Democrat President Andrew Johnson’s veto of law granting voting rights to African-Americans in D.C.

July 19, 1867
Republican Congress overrides Democrat President Andrew Johnson’s veto of legislation protecting voting rights of African-Americans

March 30, 1868
Republicans begin impeachment trial of Democrat President Andrew Johnson, who declared: “This is a country for white men, and by God, as long as I am President, it shall be a government of white men”

September 12, 1868
Civil rights activist Tunis Campbell and 24 other African-Americans in Georgia Senate, every one a Republican, expelled by Democrat majority; would later be reinstated by Republican Congress

October 7, 1868
Republicans denounce Democratic Party’s national campaign theme: “This is a white man’s country: Let white men rule”

October 22, 1868
While campaigning for re-election, Republican U.S. Rep. James Hinds (R-AR) is assassinated by Democrat terrorists who organized as the Ku Klux Klan

December 10, 1869
Republican Gov. John Campbell of Wyoming Territory signs FIRST-in-nation law granting women right to vote and to hold public office

February 3, 1870
After passing House with 98% Republican support and 97% Democrat opposition, Republicans’ 15th Amendment is ratified, granting vote to all Americans regardless of race

October 7, 1868
Republicans denounce Democratic Party’s national campaign theme: “This is a white man’s country: Let white men rule”

February 3, 1870
After passing House with 98% Republican support and 97% Democrat opposition, Republicans’ 15th Amendment is ratified, granting vote to all Americans regardless of race

May 31, 1870
President U.S. Grant signs Republicans’ Enforcement Act, providing stiff penalties for depriving any American’s civil rights

June 22, 1870
Republican Congress creates U.S. Department of Justice, to safeguard the civil rights of African-Americans against Democrats in the South

February 28, 1871
Republican Congress passes Enforcement Act providing federal protection for African-American voters

April 20, 1871
Republican Congress enacts the Ku Klux Klan Act, outlawing Democratic Party-affiliated terrorist groups which oppressed African-Americans

March 1, 1875
Civil Rights Act of 1875, guaranteeing access to public accommodations without regard to race, signed by Republican President U.S. Grant; passed with 92% Republican support over 100% Democrat opposition

February 8, 1894
Democrat Congress and Democrat President Grover Cleveland join to repeal Republicans’ Enforcement Act, which had enabled African-Americans to vote

January 15, 1901
Republican Booker T. Washington protests Alabama Democratic Party’s refusal to permit voting by African-Americans

January 26, 1922
House passes bill authored by U.S. Rep. Leonidas Dyer (R-MO) making lynching a federal crime; Senate Democrats block it with filibuster

October 3, 1924
Republicans denounce three-time Democrat presidential nominee William Jennings Bryan for defending the Ku Klux Klan at 1924 Democratic National Convention

June 12, 1929
First Lady Lou Hoover invites wife of U.S. Rep. Oscar De Priest (R-IL), an African-American, to tea at the White House, sparking protests by Democrats across the country

August 17, 1937
Republicans organize opposition to former Ku Klux Klansman and Democrat U.S. Senator Hugo Black, appointed to U.S. Supreme Court by FDR; his Klan background was hidden until after confirmation

June 24, 1940
Republican Party platform calls for integration of the armed forces; for the balance of his terms in office, FDR refuses to order it

September 30, 1953
Earl Warren, California’s three-term Republican Governor and 1948 Republican vice presidential nominee, nominated to be Chief Justice; wrote landmark decision in Brown v. Board of Education

March 12, 1956
Ninety-seven Democrats in Congress condemn Supreme Court’s decision in Brown v. Board of Education, and pledge to continue segregation

June 5, 1956
Republican federal judge Frank Johnson rules in favor of Rosa Parks in decision striking down “blacks in the back of the bus” law

November 6, 1956
African-American civil rights leaders Martin Luther King and Ralph Abernathy vote for Republican Dwight Eisenhower for President

September 9, 1957
President Dwight Eisenhower signs Republican Party’s 1957 Civil Rights Act

September 24, 1957
Sparking criticism from Democrats such as Senators John Kennedy and Lyndon Johnson, President Dwight Eisenhower deploys the 82nd Airborne Division to Little Rock, AR to force Democrat Governor Orval Faubus to integrate public schools

May 6, 1960
President Dwight Eisenhower signs Republicans’ Civil Rights Act of 1960, overcoming 125-hour, around-the-clock filibuster by 18 Senate Democrats

May 2, 1963
Republicans condemn Democrat sheriff of Birmingham, AL for arresting over 2,000 African-American schoolchildren marching for their civil rights

September 29, 1963
Gov. George Wallace (D-AL) defies order by U.S. District Judge Frank Johnson, appointed by President Dwight Eisenhower, to integrate Tuskegee High School

June 9, 1964
Republicans condemn 14-hour filibuster against 1964 Civil Rights Act by U.S. Senator and former Ku Klux Klansman Robert Byrd (D-WV)

June 10, 1964
Senate Minority Leader Everett Dirksen (R-IL) criticizes Democrat filibuster against 1964 Civil Rights Act, calls on Democrats to stop opposing racial equality. The Civil Rights Act of 1964 was introduced and approved by a staggering majority of Republicans in the Senate. The Act was opposed by most southern Democrat senators, several of whom were proud segregationists—one of them being Al Gore Sr. Democrat President Lyndon B. Johnson relied on Illinois Senator Everett Dirksen, the Republican leader from Illinois, to get the Act passed.

August 4, 1965
Senate Republican Leader Everett Dirksen (R-IL) overcomes Democrat attempts to block 1965 Voting Rights Act; 94% of Senate Republicans vote for landmark civil right legislation, while 27% of Democrats oppose. Voting Rights Act of 1965, abolishing literacy tests and other measures devised by Democrats to prevent African-Americans from voting, signed into law; higher percentage of Republicans than Democrats vote in favor

June 29, 1982
President Ronald Reagan signs 25-year extension of 1965 Voting Rights Act

November 21, 1991
President George H. W. Bush signs Civil Rights Act of 1991 to strengthen federal civil rights legislation

August 20, 1996
Bill authored by U.S. Rep. Susan Molinari (R-NY) to prohibit racial discrimination in adoptions, part of Republicans’ Contract With America, becomes law​

As for opposition to the civil rights act, all the Dems that opposed it (mostly from the south) became Republicans

Are you sure you don't want to correct that inaccurate statement that ALL the Dems who opposed the Civil Rights Act became Republicans? Here's just one example; Robert Byrd, former Klansman, led a filibuster against the Civil Rights Act and had long career as a Democrat until his death.

But your inference is that the Southern Democrats switched parties because the Republicans were a bunch of Racists just doesn't add up. You're claiming that racist Democrats switched to the party that spent the last 100 years fighting against those same Democrats to end slavery, end segregation, and establish equal rights for blacks... because they saw the Republican party as a natural home for racists?

 

[TruthSeeker]

Southern Democrats were right wing members of the Democratic party who came from the South at a time when the Republican party was despised there as anti states rights.

The point being Democrat does not mean liberal, or progressive, or anything you associate with Democrats.

And they would have been a part of the tea party, as they stood for the conservatism being expressed by the tea party. They would not have voted the same way the current Democrats vote.

Here are some FACTS for you:

1. Following the Civil War, 23 blacks -- 13 of them ex-slaves -- were elected to Congress, all as Republicans.

2. The first black Democrat was not elected to Congress until 1935, from the state of Illinois. The first black congressional Democrat from a Southern state was not elected until 1973.

3. Democrats, in 1854, passed the Kansas-Nebraska Act. This overturned the Missouri Compromise and allowed for the importation of slaves into the territories. Disgusted with the passage of this Act, free-soilers and anti-slavery members of the Whig and Democratic parties founded the Republican Party -- not just to stop the spread of slavery, but to eventually abolish it.

4. Blacks founded the Texas Republican Party. On July 4, 1867, in Houston, Texas, 150 blacks and 20 whites formed the party. No, not the Black Texas Republican Party, they founded the Texas Republican Party. Blacks across Southern states also founded the Republican parties in their states.

5. Fugitive slave laws? In 1850, Democrats passed the Fugitive Slave Law. If merely accused of being a slave, even if the person enjoyed freedom all of his or her life (as approximately 11 percent of blacks did just before the Civil War), the person lost the right to representation by an attorney, the right to trial by jury, and the right to habeas corpus.

6. Emancipation? Republican President Abraham Lincoln issued the Emancipation Proclamation during the Civil War. In 1865, the 13th Amendment emancipating the slaves was passed with 100 percent of Republicans (88 of 88 in the House, 30 of 30 in the Senate) voting for it. Only 23 percent of Democrats (16 of 66 in the House, 3 of 8 in the Senate) voted for it.

7. Civil right laws? In 1868, the 14th Amendment was passed giving the newly emancipated blacks full civil rights and federal guarantee of those rights, superseding any state laws. Every single voting Republican (128 of 134 -- with 6 not voting -- in the House, and 30 of 32 -- with 2 not voting -- in the Senate) voted for the 14th Amendment. Not a single Democrat (zero of 36 in the House, zero of 6 in the Senate) voted for it.

8. Right to vote? When Southern states balked at implementing the 14th Amendment, Congress came back and passed the 15th Amendment in 1870, guaranteeing blacks the right to vote. Every single Republican voted for it, with every Democrat voting against it.

9. Ku Klux Klan? In 1872 congressional investigations, Democrats admitted beginning the Klan as an effort to stop the spread of the Republican Party and to re-establish Democratic control in Southern states. As PBS' "American Experience" notes, "In outright defiance of the Republican-led federal government, Southern Democrats formed organizations that violently intimidated blacks and Republicans who tried to win political power. The most prominent of these, the Ku Klux Klan, was formed in Pulaski, Tenn., in 1865." Blacks, who were all Republican at that time, became the primary targets of violence.

10. Jim Crow laws? Between 1870 and 1875, the Republican Congress passed many pro-black civil rights laws. But in 1876, Democrats took control of the House, and no further race-based civil rights laws passed until 1957. In 1892, Democrats gained control of the House, the Senate and the White House, and repealed all the Republican-passed civil rights laws. That enabled the Southern Democrats to pass the Jim Crow laws, poll taxes, literacy tests, and so on, in their individual states.

11. Civil rights in the '60s? Only 64 percent of Democrats in Congress voted for the 1964 Civil Rights Act (153 for, 91 against in the House; and 46 for, 21 against in the Senate). But 80 percent of Republicans (136 for, 35 against in the House; and 27 for, 6 against in the Senate) voted for the 1964 Act.

14. What about the reviled, allegedly anti-black, Republican "Southern strategy"? Pat Buchanan, writing for Richard Nixon (who became the Republican Party candidate two years later) coined the term "Southern strategy." They expected the "strategy" to ultimately result in the complete marginalization of racist Southern Democrats. "We would build our Republican Party on a foundation of states' rights, human rights, small government, and a strong national defense," said Buchanan, "and leave it to the 'party of [Democratic Georgia Gov. Lester] Maddox, [1966 Democratic challenger against Spiro Agnew for Maryland governor George] Mahoney, and [Democratic Alabama Gov. George] Wallace to squeeze the last ounces of political juice out of the rotting fruit of racial injustice.'" And President Richard Nixon, Republican, implemented the first federal affirmative action (race-based preference) laws with goals and timetables.

 

[Demosthenes]

TruthSeeker, if you do indeed seek the truth, then start saying the other side of the arguement. Also, a black democrat not being elected until mid 1900's, has nothing t do with the democratic party, or even the Republican party. Lets not forget that this was before our time, I'm pretty sure, so because the father was a thief, then you arrest his son as well? Also, lets not forget that a Republican president got America severe debt, a useless war, and also gave tax-cuts to the rich people who supported him? And even now, Republicans are trying to make the rich have no high taxes, if taxes at all, while the poor lose everything they own, and are probably arrested eventually due to tax evasion. Your arguement is based on coincidence and opinions, so you are a hypocrit and your arguement is neither worth the time of reading nor is it even valid. Next time you try to tell a story, tell the beginning, middle, and end, like you were taught in 2nd grade.

 

[PLC1]

Perhaps this will help explain the Southern Democrats.

Southern Democrats are members of the U.S. Democratic Party who reside in the American South. In the early 18th century, they were the definitive pro-slavery wing of the party, opposed to both the anti-slavery Republicans (GOP) and the more liberal Northern Democrats.

Eventually "Redemption" was finalized in the Compromise of 1877 and the Redeemers gained control throughout the South. As the New Deal began to liberalize Democrats as a whole, Southern Democrats largely stayed as conservative as they had always been, with some even breaking off to form farther right-wing splinters like the Dixiecrats. After the Civil Rights Movement successfully challenged the Jim Crow laws and other forms of institutionalized racism, and after the Democrats as a whole came to symbolize the mainstream left of the United States, the form, if not the content, of Southern Democratic politics began to change. At that point, most Southern Democrats defected to the Republican Party, and helped accelerate the latter's transformation into a more conservative organization.

Any resemblance to the modern Democratic Party is purely, well, imaginary.

 

[Centrehalf]

TruthSeeker, if you do indeed seek the truth, then start saying the other side of the arguement.

Why would you ask TruthSeeker to argue the opposition side when TruthSeeker is engaged in a debate with another forum member? Do you do that?

It must be nice to live in a world where not only do you and yours argue your positions, but you expect people who disagree to forego their own beliefs and also argue your position.

 

[Demosthenes]

I expect if a cause is worth saying anything about, you should be able to defend it or present it in any decent way possible. Your ignorance is blinding.

 

[GenSeneca]

Southern Democrats were right wing members of the Democratic party

Ok, two things here...
1. You're the guy who is always complaining about the whole "Left vs Right" being totally wrong and yet here you are, claiming the Dixiecrats were "Right Wing" members of the Democrat party.

2. Perhaps you should define your use of the term "Right Wing" and "Left Wing" because you're just not making any sense.

In case you forgot, or never learned, it was the Republicans, you know, those evil "Right Wingers", who led the fight against racism for more than 100 years, ending slavery, ending segregation, establishing equal rights for blacks, with their only opposition coming from the Democrat party.

And here you are trying to claim that the Southern Democrats, the group most fervently opposed to the "Right Wing" Republican agenda, were somehow "right wing"?

The point being Democrat does not mean liberal, or progressive, or anything you associate with Democrats.

In the post you quoted, I called the Republicans Liberals... So I don't know WTF you're babbling about here.

And they would have been a part of the tea party, as they stood for the conservatism being expressed by the tea party.

I see... So if you support Conservative views such as Low Taxes, Small Government, and Free Markets, then you're a racist.

Does that mean the "C" in PLC1 stands for "Racist"?

Or was it really not your intent to equate Conservative views with Racist views?

They would not have voted the same way the current Democrats vote.

Robert Byrd, former Klansman and Southern Democrat who filibustered the '64 Civil Rights Act, happily "voted the same way the current Democrats vote" all the way up to his death. So do you have some actual evidence to support your theory, or is that asking too much?