The biblical conundrum

[cashmcall]

Certainly but you dont even stop long enough to dust off your feet... Certainly you would agree shouting "Jesus is Lord" and walking away is not going to convince anyone.

Your right..
Jesus is patient and long suffering with all of us, it only took me 25 years of going down every protestant rabbit trail there was to find grace, I'm sure He will wait for others also......like Alka Seltzer.....what a relief to find out I was saved by grace!........

 

[Apathy]

was Thor.or Oden for that matter ever interested in the immortal souls of humanity ?

Thor carries a hammer your god was nailed to a cross. Who is winning?

 

[Apathy]

not supposed to. convincing is the work of the Holy Spirit. we are charged with exposing you to the idea.

Well maybe one day the FSM's noodley appendage will touch your soul as he did mine.. If you cant separate your claims from the arbitrarily made up parody religion why should I take you seriously? At what point does Christianity become a parody of itself? At what point do we recognise that there is little difference between Christian mythology and the mythology of the now dead faiths? In fact much of the Christ story is blatantly ripped off and the early Church fathers readily admitted it.

"When we say that Jesus Christ was produced without sexual union, was crucified and died, and rose again, and ascended to heaven, we profound nothing new or different from what you believe regarding those whom you call the sons of Jupiter."
-Justin Matyr

You have nothing really peculiar about your claims once you consider the myths of the time. To claim divine knowledge through an intangible entity is pure folly as you clearly do not have access to a higher source of information if you did you would be able to easily answer all the conundrums that I have brought up. However you are running away from this and claiming the knowledge to be unknowable or only answerable if you assume the answer.

Now let us examine the reasoning you give and why you should really be laughed at by anyone you attempt to proselytise.

1)Questions about your claims cannot be answered, unless you believe the claims.

2)Since belief is a reaction to the evidence for the claim your question remain unanswered so you remain is disbelief.

3) Return to step one.

It is a cyclical argument meant as a pathetic attempt to insulate your beliefs from criticism.

 

[dogtowner]

Thor carries a hammer your god was nailed to a cross. Who is winning?

mankind

 

[dogtowner]

Well maybe one day the FSM's noodley appendage will touch your soul as he did mine.. If you cant separate your claims from the arbitrarily made up parody religion why should I take you seriously? At what point does Christianity become a parody of itself? At what point do we recognise that there is little difference between Christian mythology and the mythology of the now dead faiths? In fact much of the Christ story is blatantly ripped off and the early Church fathers readily admitted it.

"When we say that Jesus Christ was produced without sexual union, was crucified and died, and rose again, and ascended to heaven, we profound nothing new or different from what you believe regarding those whom you call the sons of Jupiter."
-Justin Matyr

You have nothing really peculiar about your claims once you consider the myths of the time. To claim divine knowledge through an intangible entity is pure folly as you clearly do not have access to a higher source of information if you did you would be able to easily answer all the conundrums that I have brought up. However you are running away from this and claiming the knowledge to be unknowable or only answerable if you assume the answer.

Now let us examine the reasoning you give and why you should really be laughed at by anyone you attempt to proselytise.

1)Questions about your claims cannot be answered, unless you believe the claims.

2)Since belief is a reaction to the evidence for the claim your question remain unanswered so you remain is disbelief.

3) Return to step one.

It is a cyclical argument meant as a pathetic attempt to insulate your beliefs from criticism.

and somehow I have your attention. maybe the Holy Spirit is already speaking to you ? : )

I'm not trying to convince you of anything, its not my job. I'm supposed to witness my faith which is what I'm doing. You are hoping to ridicule me for reasons of your own and that's cool if it floats your boat. People have been doing it for 2000 years or so and incredibly Christianity persists while Valhalla is the stuff of comic books.

Trust your brain on matters of the natural world, trust your heart on matters greater than that.

 

[cashmcall]

Thor carries a hammer your god was nailed to a cross. Who is winning?

We all won , because he died on the cross...

 

[Dr.Who]

You are not doing a good job of defending it now... You merely declare it unknowable when you find something does not seem as it should.

Please don't make generalizations. I have not declared any difficult passage unknowable.

Also the bible is not something you can dedicate 'many' hours to and consider yourself to even have a general understanding. Not only do you have to read the entire bible which the majority of Christian admit they have not done but you must study the history and culture of the people who wrote the texts to understand it properly. In short Ill raise you, your many hours and add to it many years..

Many hours would indeed be a part of many years and a true statement if one had spent many years studying the bible -as I have. I have read the entire bible through several times. I do study the history and culture. And Yes there is much more for me to learn. My statement that I do not know of a section in which young children are stoned stands. I doubt such a section exists and my experience is a good reason to doubt it.

As for the bias aren't we all?

Yes, some of us try to addrss our bias.

You read one book on atheism and declared it illogical? That is an very intellectually lazy thing to do...

I never said I only ever read one book on atheism. I said that one book persuaded me to re-examine Christianity in a new light. I used to be a committed atheist. I read American Atheist regularly, I read several books criticizing Christianity, I saw criticisms of it everywhere (like in science books that were never intended to be anti-thiest, and knew Rob Sherman to a small degree.

What were these complaints?

The books were filled with false complaints. As an example I will now go to the first antitheist site that google lists and discuss the first objection it makes. (No cherry picking here).

Here is the first:

Did Jesus ride one or two animals into Jerusalem?

The site lists several verses indicating that Jesus instructed his agents to go and bring him a donkey and its colt. Sometimes the verse only indicates that the colt be brought and does not mention the donkey, sometimes both the colt and the donkey are mentioned, and sometimes the verse indicates that Jesus acquired a colt but does not mention that he acquired it by telling his agents to go and get it. There is no contradition but the site implies that there is. In all cases Jesus acquires a colt and rides only a colt. The fact that the colts mother is mentioned only sometimes is irrelevant.

Also im curious having spent hours reading a book on atheism you should be an expert on what atheism actually is and what it claims. May I ask for your insight? What is atheism?

Atheism has several definitions, some loose and some hard. In one definition one must positively believe that there is no God of any kind. In others one must only have strong doubt, sometimes it is culturally relevant since a person in India who doubts some Gods but not others would still be an atheist. Futhermore, the distinction betwen an atheist and an agnostic and an anti-theist become blurred.

For me, I knew there was no proof that the Christian God did not exist (I did not care enough about others to include them in my definition for myself) so I merely said that the chance of God existing was less than the chance that a person would be struck by lighting. (turns out lots of people get stuck by lighting every year). I was an atheist in the sense that God seemed highly unlikely and I actively mocked those who believed in God as illogical.

 

[Dr.Who]

No you made an existential claim by saying the number 1 exists not a mathematical equation that describe god... We have an equation that describe the force of gravity.


Certainly if you assume the existence of god and define is properties you can then use the rules of logic with the entity you describe as god.


This is news to me... Problem solved point me to scientific journal that describes the experiment and the results then I will spin on a dime.


Water doesn't freeze at a single temperature it has a range at which the matter begins to transition from a solid to a liquid and a liquid to a gas... And by no scale does it freeze anywhere close to -32 degrees.

Water begins to freeze at about 0 C, 32 F, and 273 K.

In case there are anymore questions...

Now that you understand the changes of state may I ask to relevance of this?


A scientist who does not understand the change in state?


The god physicists references is rarely a personal god. Usually it is a deistic entity or more often a metaphorical god. Not that this is relevant as it is an argument from authority, their authority may have some relevance if we were talking about physics but we are not.


Noted astrophysicists do question its existence... I am not certain of the asteroids existence but it certainly is more probable than a god. We have observed countless asteroids and recorded their images... We have no such documentation for any god. Apparently he became tired of preforming miracle as soon as we gained the ability to record them.


The bible is of questionable authorship, has been edited for political reasons, has been archaeologically contradicted, scientifically, and self contradicted. The beginning of the earth 4.5 billion years ago? It certainly skipped over quite a bit if that is the case.

I don't find your objectons to be at all convincing. And yes I wrote -32 when I should have written just 32. A type of the mind which I am sure virtually everyone except you understood as such and read accordingly.

 

[Dr.Who]

mmm-no, it won't be Thor who revels himself one day

I misread that and posted as if it meant something else. [deleted]

 

[Dr.Who]

Certainly but you dont even stop long enough to dust off your feet... Certainly you would agree shouting "Jesus is Lord" and walking away is not going to convince anyone.

It is not my job to convince you. I can relate what I know and if you refuse to listen then that is your decision. It only makes sense to move on to someone else.

P.s. as an atheist I spent an inordinate amount of time concerned with Christianity. How silly was that?

I can only make the observation now that you have named yourself Apathy and are hardly apathetic.

 

[Apathy]

and somehow I have your attention. maybe the Holy Spirit is already speaking to you ? : )

Squirrels have gotten my attention, It doesn't take a magic ghost to pull that one off.

I'm not trying to convince you of anything, its not my job.

Good because if it were you would be getting fired.

I'm supposed to witness my faith which is what I'm doing. You are hoping to ridicule me for reasons of your own and that's cool if it floats your boat.

Know you aren't witnessing you are proclaiming it, significant difference there. No I am ridiculing your ridiculous claims. If you hold these claims to you so personally that you see any criticisms of these ideas as a personal slight then that is not my problem.

People have been doing it for 2000 years or so and incredibly Christianity persists while Valhalla is the stuff of comic books.

When you spread your faith under pain of death you would be surprised how conversions sky rocket. However now that is no longer a legal requirement to be christian you can see it dying out in every modernised country.

Trust your brain on matters of the natural world, trust your heart on matters greater than that.

Until you demonstrate something supernatural I will continue to use my heart to pump blood.

 

[Apathy]

We all won , because he died on the cross...

for god so loved the world he sacrificed himself unto himself to appease himself so he wouldn't have to send the people he created himself into a torture furnace he also created himself for committing imaginary crimes the he himself also created.

Does it make sense?

 

[Apathy]

I don't find your objectons to be at all convincing.

Refutations?
"I dont find the objections convincing and this is why..."

And yes I wrote -32 when I should have written just 32. A type of the mind which I am sure virtually everyone except you understood as such and read accordingly.

Except you didn't even bother to specify the unit of measure you were using... It is not my fault if you do not say what you mean.

 

[Apathy]

It is not my job to convince you. I can relate what I know and if you refuse to listen then that is your decision. It only makes sense to move on to someone else.

Im not refusing to listen Im refusing to accept lazy reasoning to justify my world view. The faith argument can be used to "justify" any claim even obviously fraudulent ones I make up on the spot. If you cannot differentiate yourself from fraudulent claims I cannot justify buying stock into them.

You know I was lost for nearly 30yrs.. As a lost soul I was a meth addict, a alcohol user, a toe jam eater, and a polyester wearing heretic. But then I met Lord Dogeslaf and he turned my life around and I was saved through him by drinking of the toilet water.

If I yield to your claim I logically have to yield to this claim as they are inseparable by evidence.

P.s. as an atheist I spent an inordinate amount of time concerned with Christianity. How silly was that?

It is not silly whether or not you realised it at the time... Their beliefs do not exist in a vacuum and as a result have consequence to others in society.

I can only make the observation now that you have named yourself Apathy and are hardly apathetic.

No you cannot make that observation as you cannot presume what is meant by my moniker.

 

[GenSeneca]

If you hold these claims to you so personally that you see any criticisms of these ideas as a personal slight then that is not my problem.

I am an Atheist, I do not believe in God, but I do not oppose the belief in God. I have many Theist friends, their belief in God is no threat to my Atheism nor is my Atheism a threat to their Theism. We do not feel threatened by our differing beliefs on the subject of religious faith, each of us recognize that faith is something an individual either has or doesn't have, it cannot be forced onto, or out of, anyone. I know they aren't interested in forcing me to adhere to their religion and they know I'm not interested in attacking or destroying their belief in God, as a result we get along very well.

You sir, are an Anti-Theist; one who opposes the belief in God. More specifically, you seem to have a special hatred for the Christian God and the Christian religion. You are the one who appears insecure in his beliefs, you are the one who appears to be threatened by the existence of the Christian faith, you are the one who acts as though Christianity itself is a personal slight against your sensibilities. That is why you unleash such bigoted tirades against Christians and their religion while stating about Muslims and Islam, "...as long as you do not infringe upon the rights of others while practicing it you have earned my indifference." Why do you not feel the same way about Christianity?

If not for your seething hatred of Christianity, and your insatiable desire to harangue Christians, it seems you would not have much to discuss on these boards. It is truly a shame that Anti-Theist bigotry and Christian hatred are the impetus for the overwhelming majority of your posts.