Returning Prayer To Schools - Risky !

[TheJPRD]

Interesting. You have put a lot of thought into this one.

The Good Hearts did a lot of good back in the days when civil rights was a new idea, it seems to me. Now, yes, racism does cut both ways. In fact, it seems to me that racism is a human failing, not a failing of a particular race. In fact, attributing racism to one race is racism in and of itself. I'm not so sure that your statement that bigotry against whites is rampant in our country, far more prevalent than white bigotry against citizens of color is really based on logic rather than emotion, however. It seems to be about equal. The difference is that whites are more reluctant to talk about it.

I agree with you that racism is an individual human failing, not an inborn trait of any particular race. Racism is most-commonly a learned trait. White people aren't naturally racist, and that was true even during the years of slavery. The enslavement of blacks had become an acceptable way of life in some areas. When citizens are taught from birth that such an inhuman concept is natural and acceptable, the society perpetuates the falsehood. Where you and I part company is on the issue of anti-white bigotry in the US today. I try my best to avoid illogical emotions when debating. My emotions rise only when I've proven my point and am opposed by those with closed minds. Black spokespersons and race-baiters like Sharpton, Farakhan, Jackson-Lee, and others are constantly speaking of whites as an indivisable group of racists. These race-baiters blame whites for all of the ills in history, while at the same time praising every achievement of Africans. In the minds of these race-baiters, no black is guilty when accused of harming whites (OJ Simpson for one example), and all whites are guilty when accused of harming a black person (Tawana Brawley and the Duke Lacrosse team as examples). As in the days of black slavery, these race-baiters are encouraged by corrupt politicians, and are enabled by a media and an educational system that won't challenge their bigotry! It's praiseworthy to speak of "Black Accomplishment", and is "Racist" to speak of "White Accomplishment". Before you tell me that accomplishments lie with individuals not with races, I'll agree 100%. That truth, however, is ignored by our society when it comes to the race called "black"!

The institutionalized racism of the past is gone. I think surely we all can agree that is a good thing.

Again, you and I part company on your perception. Institutional racism is alive and well in the US. Black History Month, Miss Black America, the Congressional Black Caucus, the NAACP, and the preferences given to blacks over whites in our education system are considered acceptable in today's society. Any such organizations of whites or preference given to whites over blacks would be universally decried as "racist'. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. If you care to take it a step further, look at the sworn testimony before Congress by employees of the civil-rights branch of the DOJ. In simple words, they testified that the civil rights of whites were ignored by their bosses because whites weren't as important as "persons of color". These are all examples of "institutional racism", and as in the days of black slavery, that racism is enabled by those in authority and the media, and are accepted as natural by our society in general!

Abortion is a whole other issue. Personally, I think it is wrong. I don't, however, want to impose my belief on the rest of society. Does that make me a liberal?

This is a very simple exercize in logical thinking. Your position is that that you "don't want to impose" your belief on others. It's a scientific fact that life begins at conception. To my way of thinking, nobody has the right to take an innocent life. As I'd impose my belief that murder is wrong when the victim is 40 years old, I'll just as easily impose my belief that murder is wrong when the victim is still in the womb! Abortion cheapens the value that a society places on all lives, not just the lives of the unborn.

The losers as you describe them seem to me to be more apolitical. Are the gang bangers, drug pushers, assorted hoodlums that infest our society really political?

We generally agree on this point. I never said this group was political per-se. These people will vote for whichever candidate promises to take more of the hard-earned wealth of others and give it to them.

The users as you describe them are simply out for power for themselves. Some of them do play on the desires of the losers who want a free ride, to be sure. I can think right off hand of several examples of this, all of them pretending to champion the little guy, or people of color. On the other side, I can think of people who are out for power for themselves at any cost who play on the fears of people who consider themselves right wingers, too, can't you?

Agreed! As a principled Conservative, I am always on-guard against such tactics when coming from the right as well as the left. There are users popping-up on the right from time to time. They don't last long, however, for unlike the left, principled Conservatives will quickly dis-own and rid ourselves of such trash!

What do you think of Genseneca's definition of the term? It looks quite different from yours.

Seneca has identified many of the "pieces" needed to clearly define the left. Putting all of the pieces together doesn't happen overnight. I know that from personal experience. I suspect that I've been working on the big picture much longer than he has. The bits and pieces he's already identified will eventually come together in his mind and he'll go, "Duh, now I see everything"! His thinking is headed in the right direction.

 

[Gipper]

I used to consider liberal Democrats as simply political opponents, ones who'd be open to honest and well-intentioned debate. I haven't believed that to be true for a long time now. The left in our nation IS the enemy. It must be defeated at ALL costs! The only alternative to our victory is our slavery!

I agree with much of your post. This last part is most accurate. However, I would qualify it with the fact that much of the Ds in Congress are not really liberals. They are communists and socialists. Liberal Ds while definitely collectivists, are not haters of our Constitution and our Republic. I think a large segment of the D Party (the commies) HATE what America is and what it stands for. They want to impose communism in America. These are our real enemies. We can NEVER find common ground with these people.

Labels....I love political labeling. It clarifies positions. But many on the left and others who are ignorant, hate labels. Those on the left wish to hide their radical leftism, which makes them dangerous and untrustworthy.

 

[Gipper]

Abortion is a whole other issue. Personally, I think it is wrong. I don't, however, want to impose my belief on the rest of society. Does that make me a liberal?

This is complete garbage, but many Americans believe this as does our good old pot loving mod. This belief that 'I do not want to impost my beliefs...." is what the baby killers on the left have been spouting for decades and it has worked. Unfortunately...

This kind of thinking is so illogical. To think a women can murder her unborn child whenever she wishes and for any reason, is complete ignorance. Yet people who think this way consider themselves TOLERANT....they are most intolerant...they believe MURDER of the innocent is OKAY.

 

[cashmcall]

RESPONSE:
PLC1, there are exceptions to every rule that prove the rule. Nevertheless, I believe that my answer to your questions addresses "The Big Picture" of what I see the 'left" to be. I see the American "left" as comprised of three major groups, with subtle differences among the components of each.

Let's call one of those major groups "The Good Hearts". These are people with the very best of intentions. They want the world to be a better place for everyone, and want to eliminate everything that might cause discord. I considered myself part of this group when I was younger, from about 1962-1980. We saw "racism", "sexism", and "war" as unacceptable, and we strove to make things better. This group used to be quite large, for there were obvious failures existing in the US. The size of this group has shrunk greatly in the past 25 years or so. It's been reduced by the resignations of those of us who think logically, and who see that our earlier successes have subsequently been bastardized. This comment is not intended to ridicule the illogical members of this group who continue to vote for liberal Democrats. The folks remaining in this group still want to do the right thing..... however, they're incapable of logically determining what the right thing is. They act and vote on the bases of "Feelings" and "Perceptions", not on "Logic". When Democrat demogogues accuse whites of racisim, these remaining people FEEL the claim is justified. They're incapable of seeing that bigotry against whites is rampant in our country, far more prevalent than white bigotry against citizens of color. When Democrat demogogues claim that we Conservatives are anti-female because of our anti-abortion stance, the folks in this group will agree.... they don't want to be perceived as sexists. They're incapable of reasoning that the taking of an innocent life is FAR worse than inconveniencing a female who's failed to exercize good judgment and self-control! These are the types of folks who Lenin referred to as "useful idiots", a term for them that I find detestable and unjustifed! Most of these folks are decent, loving human beings. However, I'm not sure if they'll ever "get it". Nevertheless, I keep trying to convert them, for their hearts are indeed in the right place. I dearly love many of them.

Let's call the next group "The Losers"! This is by far the largest of the three major groups today. This group consists of the incurably stupid (and unfortunately many of our poorly-educated youth), the self-serving, the self-loving, the "victim class", the "give me what I deserve' crowd, all those who DEMAND everything and contribute nothing. I'm not sure that anything could ever be done to accomplish worthwhile change among such worthless humanity. Perhaps the experiences of life will lead the more-intelligent among our poorly-educated youth to eventually see the light?

This last group, we'll call "The Users"! This group is by far the smallest of the three, and the most foul!!! These are the Masters and the Fuhrers who call the shots of the American left! These people KNOW that their policy positions are wrong for our nation!! These are not stupid people! Nevertheless, they support political positions that damage our nation, and they'll use any means avaliable to implement them. They pursue this path for one reason and one reason only; Personal Power! These are the demogogues of the left. These are the politicians who offer a "free ride" to those who'll vote for them and give them more power. These are the race-baiters, the corrupt union bosses, and the powerful business and financial barons who seek international power for themselves. They care nothing about ensuring the survival of our Constitution and our nation. They seek international dominance for themselves alone. To achieve it, they're willing to discard our Constitution, and destroy our American Republic! These are the internaionalists who believe they'll eventually control the entire world population, a population of slaves!

I used to consider liberal Democrats as simply political opponents, ones who'd be open to honest and well-intentioned debate. I haven't believed that to be true for a long time now. The left in our nation IS the enemy. It must be defeated at ALL costs! The only alternative to our victory is our slavery!

 

[cashmcall]

JPRD..sorry about the last post, but its nice to see you took the time to explain to the Socialist that there is a distinction between Conservative and Republican often referred to as rino. Unfortunately big gov liberal republicans have been around as long as I can remember. It wasn't until Reagan that Conservative was practically defined. However I would like to reiterate a few basic tenants of Conservative thought for the Socialists, and rinos on this board. ​

1) Conservatives believe in small gov. Efficient gov. and a gov limited to essential tasks only. ​

2) Conservatives believe in self-reliance, self-discipline, self-responsibility. While they are often Charitable, we do not subscribe to any philosophy that suggests that we owe our brother a living, food, clothing, shelter, safety, healthcare, a gov. job, or pension. In short, if you want something you work for it and achieve. ​

3) Conservatives hate affirmative action and the flip side of the coin nepotism. We believe in a meritocracy in which ability and hard work are rewarded not some stupid minority status or son of old money​

. ​

4) Conservatives believe that all persons can make it in society through hard work and discipline. We are color blind and blind to other religions. But therefore we do not recognize any special privilege of race, dark skin, female gender. Want to complete be our guest but don't cry you can't make it because that is what an inferior animal does. Liberals believe that blacks for example can't make it on their own. The democratic party is the evolution of the great white mothers and fathers of the plantation. For in order to be a liberal you must believe that blacks can't make it without the help​

of the great white mothers and fathers of the Democratic party. Such a position is pure racism because they must believe that Blacks are inferior and can't make it on their own. Conservatives don't buy into any of it. Equals compete if you feel inferior then go visit the liberals for handouts; they have been good at it since the days of Slavery in the Untied States and they are still good at it. ​

5) Conservatives believe in a right to work. So quite naturally they are opposed to Unions and union thugs. I myself once punched the teeth out of a Union Thug, who took it upon himself to shout in my face and grab me by the wrong wrist. I wonder if the Union paid for his new teeth. Oh well, I don't like thugs. I don't like union thugs that get in my way. ​

6) Conservatives do not like long distance protracted wars. Sun Tzu in his book the Art of War, made it quite clear that to engage in a protracted war, bankrupts the Treasury. It is therefore unwise. ​

Rinos and liberals love war. ​

Wilson WWI ​

FDR WWII ​

Truman Korea ​

LBJ Vietnam ​

Bush I Gulf I ​

Bush II Iraq, Afghanistan ​

Obama Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Uganda [Nobel Peace Prize winner] ​

7) Conservatives want low taxes. They do not want gov to spend more than it collects. They want a broad tax base and they do not want the redistribution of wealth which is Socialism. ​

8) Conservatives believe the second Amendment is a fundamental right. They believe that the Constitution is for the people to restrain Government not to restrain citizens. ​

We have had only one Conservative President, Ronald Wilson Reagan. He ended the cold war, brought the longest prosperity ever achieved in America. Created over 19 million private sector jobs. Built a strong military, and leadership through strength but he did not engage in any long distance protracted wars. His accomplishments were great and he took a bullet for his service to the country. Reagan was a towering Presidential figure who make others look small by comparison. Obama rather looks like an insect next to Reagan. ​

Reagan is without question regarded as one of the best Presidents in the history of this nation by historians and scholars. His achievements and his stature as a human being will be remembered and gratefully appreciated. He was exceptionally competent. He is all the things obama is not. ​

The republican party under Karl Rove and Bush control will rue the day when Conservatives rise again. Bush I made a concerted effort to remove any Reagan loyalist in the White House and even removed memorabilia of President Reagan from the White House, then he engaged in his thurst for CIA war with Gulf I and bankrupt the country and pushed us into recession. ​

From an honest man like Reagan we collapsed into a lying product of nepotism who's word meant nothing. "Read my lips no new taxes...." He was a liar, and duplicitous rino. ​

Conservatives hate rinos almost as much as liberals because at least with liberals you know they are Socialist and Communists. With rinos, they usurp the republican party values​

then behind closed doors buy into liberal self dealing. ​

 

[TheJPRD]

I agree with much of your post. This last part is most accurate. However, I would qualify it with the fact that much of the Ds in Congress are not really liberals. They are communists and socialists. Liberal Ds while definitely collectivists, are not haters of our Constitution and our Republic. I think a large segment of the D Party (the commies) HATE what America is and what it stands for. They want to impose communism in America. These are our real enemies. We can NEVER find common ground with these people.

Labels....I love political labeling. It clarifies positions. But many on the left and others who are ignorant, hate labels. Those on the left wish to hide their radical leftism, which makes them dangerous and untrustworthy.

And I agree with most of what you said above. Political terminology is both "Time" and "Culture" related. Two Examples: (1) In medieval Europe you might be considered a "liberal" if you hanged a heretic instead of burning him at the stake. (2) In a modern, radical Islamic culture, you might be considered a "liberal" if you cut off a Jews head with your Holy Right hand instead of your Unholy Left Hand. Given the sense of "morality" embraced by modern American liberals, will they soon be lobbying for a "Right" to DO their pet donkeies in public?? At SOME point, the liberalization of morality is no longer A wise thing to do! God protect us from all such liberalism!-

 

[TheJPRD]

entire post

There was no point in quoting your entire post, Cash. It appears to me that you were DEAD-ON with everything you said. It's nearly impossible to encompass the beliefs and principles of Conservatives in a short post. It's much easier when defining leftwing Progressives. "Promise anything to those whose votes you need......., and then screw everyone"!

 

[Jason76]

I don't think praying in school makes a difference. Why don't the schools simply enforce the rules? That action would stop a lot of bullying and disrespect.

Anyhow, I think people should pray, but it's a private affair.