Religion of Peace At It Again

[vyo476]

Putting quotation marks around your strawman arguements doesnt make them anything other than your strawman arguements.

And this usage of repetition is just another dodge. If Islam is evil and Islam is to blame, it'd have to be the base cause, right? Or, in your world, is it possible that Islam didn't cause this but is still primarily to blame?

At least after a week of claiming that Islam is not the cause youve finally made the first indication of what you believe is to blame for their behavior.
"WE" did it!

Oh my sweet chocolate Christ you're impossible.

I believe that the combination of conditions in the Middle East has lead to the rise of Islamic terrorism. These are people who feel as though their sovereignty has been violated, their natural share of the profits of their land have been denied them, and they have been mocked, ridiculed, and generally looked down upon by the West for a long, long time. They don't have anything to take pride in so they latch onto extremism.

Well, if "ourselves" refers to Americans, I have not made any comments one way or another as to to the "blame" due the Americans and in fact the only attempts to "absolve" anything of blame has been you, seeking to absolve Islam of any of the blame.

Now who is throwing around straw men? I don't believe Islam is blameless in all this, just that it is not the root cause. You could argue that Nazism caused World War II - but to do that and only that would ignore what caused Nazism in the first place. If we could have convinced the German people that they didn't need the Nazis to solve their government's woes...WWII might not have happened.

You want to say that Islam is weak because it is easily susceptible to fueling terrorists? Go ahead, say it, it's true. All religions are interpretable and it is easy to interpret Islam violently (you've done it magnificently). But don't blame Islam for terrorism. It's part of the problem - but not the cause of the problem.

There are deeper reasons for just about everything in this world, jb. The answer isn't always what's right in front of your nose.

 

[vyo476]

Hey jb, maybe you missed this in one of my last posts, so I figure I'll post it again. I'll even bold it so it's harder to miss, since obviously there is no way you were, say, avoiding it.

I want to solve the problem. I want to get to the heart of the issue and work from there. Now let's say you were right and Islam was causing all this. What then? Where do you intend to go from there? Don't ignore this paragraph, jb, it's probably the most important question I could ask you.

 

[OPGhostdog]

Hey jb, maybe you missed this in one of my last posts, so I figure I'll post it again. I'll even bold it so it's harder to miss, since obviously there is no way you were, say, avoiding it.

I want to solve the problem. I want to get to the heart of the issue and work from there. Now let's say you were right and Islam was causing all this. What then? Where do you intend to go from there? Don't ignore this paragraph, jb, it's probably the most important question I could ask you.

HOT Damn Vy0, ^5^ high five... Yeah I would like to know do from
that point. Vy0 jb is going to ignore your question, and he will keep
on blabbering at the mouth. Like I said I know jb from two other
threads, and he have always avoided heavy odds against him.

Is jb in the 5th grade?

 

[jb_1430]

Have your losted your damn mind? I am NOT trying to absolve ****.
I am posting you facts,

Youve not posted anything other than your personal opinions. Nothing other than the ideas bouncing around in your own head. And youve not even once tried to address the written word of your fellow Muslims that I have posted.

 

[jb_1430]

Hey jb, maybe you missed this in one of my last posts, so I figure I'll post it again. I'll even bold it so it's harder to miss, since obviously there is no way you were, say, avoiding it.

I want to solve the problem. I want to get to the heart of the issue and work from there. Now let's say you were right and Islam was causing all this. What then? Where do you intend to go from there? Don't ignore this paragraph, jb, it's probably the most important question I could ask you.

Embrace reality. Stop pretending that "Islam is peace" and recognize that the doctrine lies at the root of this worldwide campaign of terrorism by the Islamic fundamentalist. Recognize that while they oppose the government in the US, they also oppose every government in the mid east. The establishment of the Islamic caliphate is their goal, and they oppose anyone who they believe stands in the way of that goal. We could withdraw every single military personnel from every nation in the Mid east. We could cut of all aid to Israel, Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon, Iraq and Afghanistan and they would still wage jihad to establish the Islamic caliphate.
I dont propose to know the magic answer to solve the problem but I know that pretending it is not there only encourages its continuation.

The common ground among the scholars behind the jihadi movement is their rejection of Muslims living under apostate laws and political systems governing outside what God has decreed. The required response—for all, but to differing degrees and with differing tactics—is resistance.
http://www.jamestown.org/terrorism/news/article.php?articleid=2370233

 

[jb_1430]

You could argue that Nazism caused World War II - but to do that and only that would ignore what caused Nazism in the first place. If we could have convinced the German people that they didn't need the Nazis to solve their government's woes...WWII might not have happened.

well, thats certainly in line with your assesment of the current situation.
I see your still injecting "only" into the equation, as if I had. I never claimed Islam was the only cause and it was my claim simply that it was a cause that youve been disputing every time I made it.

 

[vyo476]

Embrace reality. Stop pretending that "Islam is peace" and recognize that the doctrine lies at the root of this worldwide campaign of terrorism by the Islamic fundamentalist. Recognize that while they oppose the government in the US, they also oppose every government in the mid east. The establishment of the Islamic caliphate is their goal, and they oppose anyone who they believe stands in the way of that goal. We could withdraw every single military personnel from every nation in the Mid east. We could cut of all aid to Israel, Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon, Iraq and Afghanistan and they would still wage jihad to establish the Islamic caliphate.

I don't pretend that "Islam is peace," I know that this is the reality of it for some people. I know that Islam is used to justify this worldwide campaign of terrorism by the Islamic fundamentalist, but I don't believe that Islam is the root cause - and I don't really believe that any further discussion on the subject has any merit.

I dont propose to know the magic answer to solve the problem but I know that pretending it is not there only encourages its continuation.

Here we go then. Let's take a look at the hypothetical world you've created.

The United States embraces the idea that we're fighting Islam because Islam is violent, bloodthirsty, and evil. What are the consequences of doing so?

What happens to at least 2 million American Muslims, whose religion is now officially "evil" according to the United States government?

How does the United States go about trying to eliminate the problem - Islam? Do we blow up Mecca, which (at last check) resides in a country that is currently our ally?

Can you answer either of these questions even perfunctorily?

If you want an acknowledgment of the role of Islam in terrorism from me, jb, here it is: Islam is used by militants to justify their actions. Perhaps you would like to provide your own version of the role of Islam in terrorism.

 

[jb_1430]

These are people who feel as though their sovereignty has been violated, their natural share of the profits of their land have been denied them, and they have been mocked, ridiculed, and generally looked down upon by the West for a long, long time. They don't have anything to take pride in so they latch onto extremism.

The Muslims have told the US what motivates them as long as the US has been around. In 1786 Thomas Jefferson and John Adams asked the Tripoli ambassador to Britain, why they attack Americans, held them captives and enslaved them, The ambassador told them the same thing they are telling us now,

“that it was founded on the Laws of their Prophet, that it was written in their Koran, that all nations who should not have acknowledged their authority were sinners, that it was their right and duty to make war upon them wherever they could be found, and to make slaves of all they could take as Prisoners, and that every Musselman who should be slain in Battle was sure to go to Paradise.”
http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/london200512160955.asp

No doubt you would argue they suffered from this same lack of pride that they do today. Ignore what they directly tell us that motivates their actions and create a scenario in your mind as to their motivation.

 

[jb_1430]

Here we go then. Let's take a look at the hypothetical world you've created.

The United States embraces the idea that we're fighting Islam because Islam is violent, bloodthirsty, and evil. What are the consequences of doing so?

Who said anything about fighting Islam?
What we do is recognize what motivates them, realize that their motivation wont go away with psychological counseling to improve their self image. Realize that there is probably nothing we can do to eliminate their motivation.

 

[USMC the Almighty]

No doubt you would argue they suffered from this same lack of pride that they do today. Ignore what they directly tell us that motivates their actions and create a scenario in your mind as to their motivation.

I'm with you here jb. Americans have this bad habit of not taking evil men at their word and it has come back to hurt us time after time.

When the terrorists tell us that they are fighting in the name of Islam, we should take their claims seriously. The only people I hear claiming that American "colonialism" or American foreign policy are driving the terrorist are the liberal apologists for Islam. Was our same "colonialism" driving the Barbary pirates over 200 years ago? Or was it their religion which insists that they kill all infidels and establish their Sharia law?

 

[jb_1430]

I know that Islam is used to justify this worldwide campaign of terrorism by the Islamic fundamentalist, but I don't believe that Islam is the root cause -

????? "Used"? I think they GENUINELY BELIEVE that they are acting according to Islamic doctrine.

 

[jb_1430]

I'm with you here jb. Americans have this bad habit of not taking evil men at their word and it has come back to hurt us time after time.

When the terrorists tell us that they are fighting in the name of Islam, we should take their claims seriously. The only people I hear claiming that American "colonialism" or American foreign policy are driving the terrorist are the liberal apologists for Islam. Was our same "colonialism" driving the Barbary pirates over 200 years ago? Or was it their religion which insists that they kill all infidels and establish their Sharia law?

Yeah. Had it been Christian Fundamentalist from the middle east who attacked us, I suspect their views would be quite different.

 

[OPGhostdog]

When the terrorists tell us that they are fighting in the name of Islam, we should take their claims seriously.

USMC, I do not agree with being a terrorist, but there is no difference
in them fighting for Islam then fighting for the United States.
Yeah take them serious, due to the fact that they are taking us real
serious. You people is looking at the war from one viewpoint, and yet
you are ignoring the real BIG PICTURE.

It seems to me that many of you do have Islamphobia, cause if you
didn't you would not be beating this subject to death, and what many
of you can't see is we (USA) is being called terrorist too.

To be honest, its to bad that there's not a physical showdown here
in America between Muslims, and non Muslims who is doing wrong.
Instead of fighting in the Middle East, fight here on the home front
against racism,discrimination,unemployment, unfair education,
and from what I see everyday on here is a bunch of Bush supporters
many of you are bushwhacked.

Do any of you realize that there is other issues that needs to be
talked about, but that will never happen with a bunch of self-
centered people who have their own agenda. There has been so
good threads and debates posted, but people do not discuss the
post, and what they do is override the thread's subject with
their own garbage.

9Sub, here is a suggestion for you to think about. Create a thread
titled......Off The Treads Subject. This will allow subjects to be
discussed, and one post will appear one minute, and a new thread
the next minute. I think its selfish to overpost on a subject that's
not 2 minutes old.

 

[ilikeboobs]

I think it is silly for Islam to refer to itself as the "Religion of Peace" when its followers fly planes into American buildings and then the so-called moderate Muslims in Israel are dancing in the streets.

When an abortion clinic is bombed in name of Christianity, there is immediate ringing condemnation throughout the entire faith and that individual is renounced and ostracized from the community -- not hailed as martyrs in their ongoing war against the West.

Absolutely right. Show me where Christians are systematically committing genocide anywhere in the world today (see Darfur), or where Jews are calling for the death of unbelievers, or Hindus are blowing up ancient statues of other religions, or where Buhddists are beating their women and honor-killing them.

Islam is the most intolerant religion in the world. Hands down. You can't deny it. That said - I can ALMOST see their point about the West exporting immorality around the world. Porn, violent movies, obsession with wealth, gay crap, rap music...if I were a wholesome religious person and this was being pushed on me, I'd be irritated, too. BUT...not to the point of killing people in my God's name to stop it.

 

[jb_1430]

USMC, I do not agree with being a terrorist, but there is no difference
in them fighting for Islam then fighting for the United States.

?????? One fights for freedom, equality, democracy, government of, by and for the people, and protection of our own a s s. The other fights for the imposition of an Islamic theocracy to rule the world according to allah. BIG DIFFERENCE! And then there's that glaring difference where we prefer to fight with our military against the opposing combatants. Those fighting for Islam seem to have a strong preference for taking the fight to civilians, women and children and doing everything they can to avoid our military.