Religion of Peace At It Again

[jb_1430]

All you've proven is that if someone looks at Islam the same way you do they can find justification for murder in it. When you get around to it, you can find justification for murder in just about anything. Hell, look at it long enough and you can probably find justification for murder in this post.

When you find this justification in this post, try to ponder the difference between what you have found and-

[2.191] And kill them wherever you find them...then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers.
[47:4]...smite the necks until when you have overcome them...
[8.39] And fight with them until there is no more persecution and religion should be only for Allah

and how much easier the hunt for justification is made by the words of Islamic doctrine.

It takes a lot more than words on a piece of paper to turn people into raving lunatics and suicide bombers.

I was just reading earlier today

The terrorist later said that he and his co-conspiratorsread and exchanged books that declared the rulers of the Arab coun-tries and the rulers of this country as unbelievers, such as the book called Clear Evidence on the Infidel Nature of the Saudi State, and the book called The Religion of Abraham written by Abu Muham-mad al-Maqdisi. When I read this book, The Religion of Abraham, I was eager to pay a visit to Abu Muhammad al-Maqdisi. And indeed, I visited him on many occasions in Jordan and was affected by his ideas, publications and books that declare that leaders of Arab states
and the government and the body of senior ulama [theologians] of this country Saudi Arabia are unbelievers.
http://www.nixoncenter.org/publications/PreacherandJihadi.pdf

You should read some Abu Muham-mad al-Maqdisi. Those mentioned above or "Democracy: A Religion" for a good thesis on why Democracy is a religion and why-

It is not the religion of monotheism, and its parliamentary councils are just places of polytheism, and safe havens for paganistic beliefs. All of these must be avoided to achieve monotheism, which is Allah’s right upon His servants. We must destroy those who follow democracy, and we must take their followers as enemies - hate them and wage a great Jihad against them.

http://64.233.183.104/search?q=cach...mocracy:+a+religion"&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=5&gl=us

The PDF link is dead but the google link should take you to a html file.

Which do you think is more likely - that the words of Quran are making up their minds for them or that their minds are causing them to view the Quran in a specific way?

I dont think they need a reason to "view the Quran" as meaning the clear and ordinary meaning of the words. Whereas I think that someone who views
[2.191] And kill them wherever you find them... to mean that Islam is peace, quiet obviously, "their minds are causing them to view the Quran in a specific way"

Sure there are instances in the Quran that are violent. But are those violent passages causing all this misery or are they just the excuse?

I take them at their word as to what motivates them. As opposed to the word of those who are the apologist for the religion they follow.

 

[jb_1430]

So whats your point?

Like I said, Coyote's claim that
"We discussed the doctrine."
is
"Nonsense"

I cant take the time to draw a map for ya.

 

[ArmChair General]

Like I said, Coyote's claim that
"We discussed the doctrine."
is
"Nonsense"

I cant take the time to draw a map for ya.

NO, i mean, i completely agree with you that Islam should be removed from the face of the Earth, I just don't stop criticizing Christianity which is even worse. All Religion, or Dogmatism rather, is a curse upon humanity. There is nothing more rational about the Catholic act of using magic to make Jesus meat out of a cracker, than there is in the Muslims beileving God wants them to kill all infidels.

So Im just wondering what your point to all this anti-islamic talk is? Are you willing to put your money where your mouth is so to speak, and criticize other religions as well, especially Christianity?

Because if you aren't, then I just see you as half-way getting the point. You can't just pick one religion to attack, unless you want to be seen as a hypocrite. And thats how many of these people see you, including myself.

 

[USMC the Almighty]

So Im just wondering what your point to all this anti-islamic talk is? Are you willing to put your money where your mouth is so to speak, and criticize other religions as well, especially Christianity?

From where I'm standing, the Christians aren't the ones flying commerical planes into civilian skyscrapers.

 

[vyo476]

I take them at their word as to what motivates them.

Because mass murder and honesty go hand in hand, right?

Or is it because someone who is willing to strap enough explosives to demolish a building to his chest and then detonate them is obviously mentally healthy enough to comment on his state of mind?

I dont think they need a reason to "view the Quran" as meaning the clear and ordinary meaning of the words.

Of course you don't. Ignoring the complexity of the human mind is integral to your argument.

Whereas I think that someone who views
[2.191] And kill them wherever you find them... to mean that Islam is peace, quiet obviously, "their minds are causing them to view the Quran in a specific way"

My mind makes me view the Quran as a malleable document (and, personally, a load of rubbish, but that's because I dislike pretty much all organized religions). Your mind makes you view the Quran stiffly and completely literally. Some Muslims think of it the same way you do, and they run around blowing things up. Some Muslims think of it my way (minus the rubbish part), and don't.

Islam is not the cause of terrorism. It is the excuse for terrorism. It's a handy excuse, sure - but that's all it is. Until we start addressing the real issues that are creating terrorists - whatever those may be - terrorism will continue, and it'll more than likely continue using Islam as its excuse.

 

[jb_1430]

You repeatedly make the claim you've "read" the Hadditha and Quran but again - reading doesn't equal "understanding" because, after all - many peope have "read" the bible and found "justification" for murder.

Yeah yeah, the crusades. The fact that today, Muslims are reading the quran and finding justifications for murder has an impact upon my life today. Im not concerned with centuries ago. And centuries ago it would have been easy to argue that the actions of the Holy Roman Empire are not adhering to scripture. Today, the fundamentalist can easily argue that it is they who are adhering to Islamic doctrine and all the other non fundamentalist are the ones who have perverted the doctrine.
And I dont know how many times I need to point out that MY understanding, or lackthereof is irrelevent, I dont believe it. Im an atheist. Thats why I have exclusively provided the understandings of Muslims. Ibn Khaldoon, Al Banna, Qutb, al-Maqdisi, Bin Laden, Zawahiri and that guy on the street in Britain a few weeks ago who claimed that Islam would rule America.
And Im not a scholar but I have read the Koran and Haddiths cover to cover in different translations. Ive read all of Qutb's and al-Maqdisi's books. Probably 25 other books by so called Islamic scholars from Ibn Khaldoon in the 13th century to Azeemabadi in the 20th . Ive read countless posts on the internet from Islamic fundamentalist. Ive read everything in Engish from Bin Laden and Zawahiri.
Cant help but chuckle with these constant claims that I dont know what Im talking about from people who quite clearly dont have even the SLIGHTEST idea what I am talking about.

 

[ArmChair General]

From where I'm standing, the Christians aren't the ones flying commerical planes into civilian skyscrapers.

I don't really understand the implications here. Are you suggesting that muslims flew commercial planes into civilian skyscrapers solely because their faith told them too?

 

[OPGhostdog]

jb_1430, You are the one who is keeping this crap going.
Why are you bashing Islam, and know nothing besides
what you read in the newspapers or see on CNN?

I enjoying arguing with you because all you are doing is
making a damn fool out of yourself with your paragenda
comments. Do you know how to post comments from
your own thoughts?

NO, i mean, i completely agree with you that Islam should be removed from the face of the Earth.

ArmChair, You are discriminating against religion with your
above comment. Suppose If I said Jews and Crackers
should be removed from the face of the earth? I would be
flat out discriminating, and being a racist if I made a rude
statement like that.

You should never call nobody a hypocrite, and you are
co-signing jb_1430 bs. Plus you have provided this
forum members with your racist and discrimination
againist religion.

 

[ArmChair General]

jb_1430,

ArmChair, You are discriminating against religion with your
above comment. Suppose If I said Jews and Crackers
should be removed from the face of the earth? I would be
flat out discriminating, and being a racist if I made a rude
statement like that.

You should never call nobody a hypocrite, and you are
co-signing jb_1430 bs. Plus you have provided this
forum members with your racist and discrimination
againist religion.

Your damn right I discriminate against the faithful. I do not tolerate religion at all. And I have no problem saying that. I think the question, should be, why do you tolerate it? If you actually beileve what you are saying here, then how could you not?

 

[jb_1430]

If that's what you want it to mean - that's what it means for you.

Im an atheist. Its a fairy tale to me. What I think it means is irrelevent. What it means to the Muslims who are waging this worldwide campaign of Jihad in the ways of allah is what is important.

 

[vyo476]

Im an atheist. Its a fairy tale to me. What I think it means is irrelevent. What it means to the Muslims who are waging this worldwide campaign of Jihad in the ways of allah is what is important.

And why is that important?

 

[OPGhostdog]

Cant help but chuckle with these constant claims
that I dont know what Im talking about from people who quite clearly
dont have even the SLIGHTEST idea what I am talking about

You don't know what you are talking about Barney Fife, and
you are right...nobody knows what you are typing about.
I am in the Muslim religion, and you are telling me that you
know Islam/Muslim beliefs enough to check somebody? In my
eyesight you are a nobody who comes on the internet after
spending hours & hours in the library spreading your non senses
paragenda.

Your personal attacks is making you in violation of this site's
TOS, and since you can attack...you will get attacked back.

 

[jb_1430]

NO, i mean, i completely agree with you that Islam should be removed from the face of the Earth, I just don't stop criticizing Christianity which is even worse. All Religion, or Dogmatism rather, is a curse upon humanity. There is nothing more rational about the Catholic act of using magic to make Jesus meat out of a cracker, than there is in the Muslims beileving God wants them to kill all infidels.

Lets just say Im more concerned with the senseless slaughter of infidels than I am with the senseless consumption of Jesus crackers.
"Christianity" "worse"???? D E L U S I O N A L ... or you know little about either.

 

[jb_1430]

Run along kid, your starting to bother me.

You don't know what you are talking about Barney Fife, and
you are right...nobody knows what you are typing about.
I am in the Muslim religion, and you are telling me that you
know Islam/Muslim beliefs enough to check somebody? In my
eyesight you are a nobody who comes on the internet after
spending hours & hours in the library spreading your non senses
paragenda.

Your personal attacks is making you in violation of this site's
TOS, and since you can attack...you will get attacked back.

 

[OPGhostdog]

Your damn right I discriminate against the faithful. I do not tolerate religion at all. And I have no problem saying that. I think the question, should be, why do you tolerate it? If you actually beileve what you are saying here, then how could you not?

Well you are entitle to your own damn opinion, but what makes you
think that someone have to tolorate your BS?, and I have no problem
dealing with people like you. I am not tolorating your s***, and that's
why I am speaking out againist you. Yes, As a matter of fact I do
know what I am talking about. Unlikely you Bush supporters who is
out to destory the Muslim population, and tell people what religon is
good or bad.