Religion of Peace At It Again

[OPGhostdog]

the lights are on...but I dont think anyone is home.

You must be telling me that you have a brain, but its
nothing up there huh?, and this is the first honest state-
ment you have made. jb_1430

 

[ArmChair General]

What do you mean by she destoryed my weak arguments?
Macho? You need to put the joint out, and stop being two
sided. Its seems to me that you are the confused one trying
to defend someone by attacking someone else. ArmChair

I know about Islam, and what it takes to be a good Muslim.
Also ArmChair, I do not have to read from a book to understand
what is taking place in the MiddleEast, and I agree with every
thing that Coyote stated about jb_1430

In closing ArmChair, What do you know about Islam? and do
you know me well enogh to question me? So you seem to be
the weak one like Bush (always dipping)

Perhaps.

 

[Coyote]

LOLOLOL!!! Yeah, muslims always want to avoid the doctrine when discussing the nature of their religion.
And you should keep your personal attacks to your self or I'll have to tell you what I really think about you and your religion.

You appear to be the one engaging in personal attacks here. As it stands, all you've done is supply cherry-picked, out-of-context quotes while simultaneiously rejecting similar quotes that appear in the bible. You repeatedly make the claim you've "read" the Hadditha and Quran but again - reading doesn't equal "understanding" because, after all - many peope have "read" the bible and found "justification" for murder. To me that indicates a lack of understanding of the true principles underlying the words.

Islam is in need of a reformation, of that there is no doubt. Maybe this increase in extremism is a wake up call to the billions of moderates who do NOT support extremism. But it should not be a call to a bunch of hypocritical Christians to condemn an entire faith based upon the actions and interpretations of it's radicals.

 

[Coyote]

the lights are on...but I dont think anyone is home.

^ wheel's turning, hamster dead

 

[Coyote]

The bible. Before the reformation, only the Clergy had bibles, and the people didnt read. Christianity was what the church said it was.

That doesn't fly. Maybe you need to sharpen the point on your head. Some of the bloodiest religious fighting came after the reformation. The Bible changed nothing - it only meant the common person could read it for himself and interpret it any way he wished....literally. No scholarship or depth needed. God wants you to be his sword? No problem - says so right in Bible.

 

[Coyote]

You must be telling me that you have a brain, but its
nothing up there huh?, and this is the first honest state-
ment you have made. jb_1430

 

[Coyote]

You and all the other apologist are the only ones talking about Muslims. The criticisms have been directed at the doctrine. You dont know anything about the doctrine so you use this strawman arguement in defense of muslims.

We discussed the doctrine.


Are you a Christian apologist?

 

[vyo476]

You and all the other apologist are the only ones talking about Muslims. The criticisms have been directed at the doctrine. You dont know anything about the doctrine so you use this strawman arguement in defense of muslims.

All you've proven is that if someone looks at Islam the same way you do they can find justification for murder in it. When you get around to it, you can find justification for murder in just about anything. Hell, look at it long enough and you can probably find justification for murder in this post.

It takes a lot more than words on a piece of paper to turn people into raving lunatics and suicide bombers. Which do you think is more likely - that the words of Quran are making up their minds for them or that their minds are causing them to view the Quran in a specific way?

Sure there are instances in the Quran that are violent. But are those violent passages causing all this misery or are they just the excuse?

 

[Coyote]

All you've proven is that if someone looks at Islam the same way you do they can find justification for murder in it. When you get around to it, you can find justification for murder in just about anything. Hell, look at it long enough and you can probably find justification for murder in this post.

It takes a lot more than words on a piece of paper to turn people into raving lunatics and suicide bombers. Which do you think is more likely - that the words of Quran are making up their minds for them or that their minds are causing them to view the Quran in a specific way?

Sure there are instances in the Quran that are violent. But are those violent passages causing all this misery or are they just the excuse?

Wow...something that makes sense for a change

 

[vyo476]

Wow...something that makes sense for a change

What, I don't usually make sense?

 

[jb_1430]

We discussed the doctrine.


Are you a Christian apologist?

Nonsense. Im almost surprised nobody has made as much as a single direct comment on any of the doctrine I have quoted. Not even an attempt to explain the alternative meaning of "kill" or "fight" that somehow would be revealed to us all if someone...anyone simply provide that missing context. So far the only discussion of the Islamic doctrine from you people has been to parrot bible verses used to show violence in the bible. Most all of them from the old testament. Most of them refering to violence of God and Jesus, not violence that believers are to commit. I said

Notice theres not one telling Christians to "kill" or "fight" against the unbelievers.

and sublime drags out

Luke 19:27 "But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me." -Jesus Christ

and I provided the context that showed this was a parable about a King and NOT about Jesus.

Luke 19:11 While they were listening to this, he went on to tell them a parable, because he was near Jerusalem and the people thought that the kingdom of God was going to appear at once. 12He said: "A man of noble birth went to a distant country to have himself appointed king and then to return. 13So he called ten of his servants and gave them ten minas.[a]'Put this money to work,' he said, 'until I come back.......'

I dont think any of you realize or comprehend this distinction. The difference between telling a story about the past, and laying down rules for the believers to follow in the future.

No, no one has even attempted to even address the doctrine. Because it cant. [2.191] And kill them wherever you find them means kill them wherever you find them.

 

[ArmChair General]

Nonsense. Im almost surprised nobody has made as much as a single direct comment on any of the doctrine I have quoted. Not even an attempt to explain the alternative meaning of "kill" or "fight" that somehow would be revealed to us all if someone...anyone simply provide that missing context. So far the only discussion of the Islamic doctrine from you people has been to parrot bible verses used to show violence in the bible. Most all of them from the old testament. Most of them refering to violence of God and Jesus, not violence that believers are to commit. I said

Notice theres not one telling Christians to "kill" or "fight" against the unbelievers.

and sublime drags out

Luke 19:27 "But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me." -Jesus Christ

and I provided the context that showed this was a parable about a King and NOT about Jesus.

Luke 19:11 While they were listening to this, he went on to tell them a parable, because he was near Jerusalem and the people thought that the kingdom of God was going to appear at once. 12He said: "A man of noble birth went to a distant country to have himself appointed king and then to return. 13So he called ten of his servants and gave them ten minas.[a]'Put this money to work,' he said, 'until I come back.......'

I dont think any of you realize or comprehend this distinction. The difference between telling a story about the past, and laying down rules for the believers to follow in the future.

No, no one has even attempted to even address the doctrine. Because it cant. [2.191] And kill them wherever you find them means kill them wherever you find them.

So whats your point?

 

[vyo476]

No, no one has even attempted to even address the doctrine. Because it cant. [2.191] And kill them wherever you find them means kill them wherever you find them.

If that's what you want it to mean - that's what it means for you.

 

[Coyote]

I dont think any of you realize or comprehend this distinction. The difference between telling a story about the past, and laying down rules for the believers to follow in the future.

The bible - mostly the OT but the NT as well - lays down many rules and laws for believers to follow - even as trivial as how to cut a beard. Whether it's a "story from the past" or whether it's "laying down rules to follow" really depends on how the reader or sect chooses to interpret it. Now I know most Christian apologists say the OT doesn't count but the thing is - when they wish to justify their actions or rules of biblical law they wish to impose on others - they're just as happy to use the OT as well as the NT and the NT refers to a lot of what's in the OT. They are pretty inseperable.

Unlike you, I don't pretend to be a scholar of Islam. Nor am I a scholar of Judaism or Christianity. But I am smart enough to know the difference between simply reading something and understanding something and I am educated enough to know there are many layers of meaning in all the great religious works.

I countered your quotes and interpretatins of violence with quotes and interpretations of peace. It's all there in the Quran and it's all there in the bible: peace, war, murder, charity, love, justice, revenge. They all spring from the same cultural roots and they all spring from the same god.

 

[Coyote]

So whats your point?

Shhh...it's on his head.