Religion of Peace At It Again

[Coyote]

Open up your newspaper and tell me which one is doing it every day, day in and day out all over the world.

What gets media attention?

Read the article on why little attention is paid on Islamic voices for peace.

Also, it's a mistake to simplify everything down to just religion. The factors involved in this violence are using their religion as a tool to justify violence who's real causes have little to do with faith.

 

[jb_1430]

The point I have been attempting to make is this:

All religions can be perverted by extremists.

The problem with Islamic doctrine is that the perversion is required to make it peaceful. For the violent jihadist its good to go as written.

 

[jb_1430]

The factors involved in this violence are using their religion as a tool to justify violence who's real causes have little to do with faith.

It has everything to do with their faith

The speech of Allah (SWT) to the Prophet (SAW)also applies to the Ummah. To establish the rule of Allah, entails the establishment of the State and the appointment of a Khalifah, who governs according to Islam. It is incumbent upon the Musilms to establish a state and appoint a leader who applies Islam. The appointment of such a Khalifahis obtained through the Bay'aa.

It has been reported on the autority of Nafi that Abdullah ibn Umar said: I heard the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) say:

"One who dies without having bound himself by an oath of allegiance (to an Amir) will die the death of one belonging to the days of Jahiliyyah." (Muslim)

It has been Narrated on the authority of Abdullah b Amir b al-As that he heard the Prophet (SAW) say:

"He who swears allegiance to a Khalifah should give him the pledge of his hand and the sincerity of his heart (i.e. submit to him both outwardly as well as inwardly). He should obey him to the best of his capacity. If another man comes forward (as claim ant to Khalifah) disputing his authority, they (the Muslims) should behead the latter." (Muslim)

In accordance with Islam, it is the duty of the Muslims world wide to elect a Khalifah. Such an appointment is seen as a duty (fard) similar to all other duties within Islam. The duty is seen as inevitable, and any divergence from the path is considered a grave sin, and therefore any neglect of this duty will be punished accordingly. The establishment of a Khilafah is seen as vital, because without it Islam cannot possibly be applied.

Khilafah is one of the most important issues in Islam, many
versus in Quran and many Hadiths of the Prophet ordered Muslims
to establish such a system. Ruling by Islam is the most frequent
issue discussed in Quran after the belief and creed. Therefore,
Khilafah was discussed by many Muslim scholars, the following are
the definition of some of them to Khilafah.

Ibn Khaldoon defined it as: A representation, of the one
who has the right to adopt the divine rules, aimed at
protecting the Deen and ruling the world (Dunia) with it.
http://www-personal.umich.edu/~luqman/

 

[Coyote]

It has everything to do with their faith

Faith is simply the language of their rage. No more, no less. You will find the same misuse of faith through out Christian history and among other faiths such as Hindu. The factors that drive that rage - and drive people to submit to the most extremist forms of their religion - are what need to be examined.

 

[Coyote]

The problem with Islamic doctrine is that the perversion is required to make it peaceful. For the violent jihadist its good to go as written.

No more then with Christian doctrine. It all depends on how you cherry-pick it. Both are full of violence and extortions to violence towards those who offend God. Both doctrines have passages that have been used to justify atrocities and that's a fact you can't get around. Both doctrines include passages that promote peace if one chooses.

Is the Quran more violent? Overall yes. But not all that much. And that doesn't lesson the incredible amount of religiously justified bloodshed in the Bible either.

If one is not a knowledgable scholar - and is of a fundamentalist bent, he's not going to care if something is a parable or whatever - the words say this, therefore it justifies that. That is how extremism works.

 

[jb_1430]

No more then with Christian doctrine. It all depends on how you cherry-pick it. Both are full of violence and extortions to violence towards those who offend God. Both doctrines have passages that have been used to justify atrocities and that's a fact you can't get around.

Sounds like an assesment from someone who has never read the Bible or the Koran and Haddiths. Christianity has no political component. Doesnt call for the conquest of new lands and ruling over them. Christianity doesnt include its own civil code to be applied as law to govern the people. No commandments to [2.193] And fight with them until there is no persecution, and religion should be only for Allah, or
[9.29] Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth.
Christians send missionaries to spread the word of God. Muslims send Jihad warriors to spread the words of allah, convert or die.

 

[Coyote]

Sounds like an assesment from someone who has never read the Bible or the Koran and Haddiths. Christianity has no political component. Doesnt call for the conquest of new lands and ruling over them. Christianity doesnt include its own civil code to be applied as law to govern the people. No commandments to [2.193] And fight with them until there is no persecution, and religion should be only for Allah, or
[9.29] Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth.
Christians send missionaries to spread the word of God. Muslims send Jihad warriors to spread the words of allah, convert or die.

Christianity has within it certain passages that can be interpreted as spreading the word by the sword and, more to the point have been interpreted as such to do so. You can't get around history and you can't get around how easy it has been to justify bloodshed and war in the name of Christ. It's happened. Face reality.

 

[jb_1430]

"render unto ceasar, as opposed to-

http://www.youngmuslims.ca/online_library/books/milestones/hold/chapter_4.asp
It is the right of Islam to release mankind from servitude to human beings so that they may serve God alone, to give practical meaning to its declaration that God is the true Lord of all and that all men are free under Him. According to the Islamic concept and in actuality, God's rule on earth can be established only through the Islamic system, as it is the only system ordained by God for all human beings, whether they be rulers or ruled, black or white, poor or rich, ignorant or learned. Its law is uniform for all, and all human beings are equally responsible within it. In all other systems, human beings obey other human beings and follow man-made laws. Legislation is a Divine attribute; any person who concedes this right to such a claimant, whether he
considers him Divine or not, has accepted him as Divine.Islam is not merely a belief, so that it is enough merely to preach it. Islam, which is a way of life, takes practical steps to organize a movement for freeing man. Other societies do not give it any opportunity to organize its followers according to its own method, and hence it is the duty of Islam to annihilate all such systems, as they are obstacles in the way of universal freedom. Only in this manner can the way of life be wholly dedicated to God, so that neither any human authority nor the question of servitude remains, as is the case in all other systems which are based on man's servitude to man.

 

[Coyote]

"render unto ceasar, as opposed to-

Again, you are ignoring the reality of Christianity - which historically did very little rendering unto Ceasar and took literally the requirement to establish a kingdom on earth. You can twist doctrine any which way you want but the truth is evident in history.

 

[jb_1430]

Christianity has within it certain passages that can be interpreted as spreading the word by the sword and, more to the point have been interpreted as such to do so. You can't get around history and you can't get around how easy it has been to justify bloodshed and war in the name of Christ. It's happened. Face reality.

Well, if you go centuries back in time and you use a tortured interpretation of a couple select verses. Centuries ago when only the church knew what the bible says and everyone else had to rely upon what the church tells them it says. Like I said, Islam leaves no doubts. Speaking of the "sword"
[/QUOTE]

Shaykh Usamah Bin-Muhammad Bin-Ladin
Ayman al-Zawahiri,
Praise be to Allah, who revealed the Book, controls the clouds, defeats factionalism, and says in His Book: "But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the pagans wherever ye find them, seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war)"; and peace be upon our Prophet, Muhammad Bin-'Abdallah, who said: I have been sent with the sword between my hands to ensure that no one but Allah is worshipped,
[/QUOTE]

 

[Coyote]

You don't have to go back centuries. There are still substantial minority who believe that God intended a Christian kingdom on earth and it is right there in the bible. They have no doubts and the can cite scripture to support their beliefs just as you do.

I notice you totally ignore scripture promoting peace, justice and tolerance.

 

[jb_1430]

You don't have to go back centuries. There are still substantial minority who believe that God intended a Christian kingdom on earth and it is right there in the bible. They have no doubts and the can cite scripture to support their beliefs just as you do.

I notice you totally ignore scripture promoting peace, justice and tolerance.

Yeah, and they vote for conservative politicians... you know... as opposed to self detonating in a crowded market yelling allah Akbar. Whats your point?
And the peace spoken of in the koran is for Muslims living in the Islamic caliphate. And its peaceful because the Christians and jews "pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection" and the idolators have been converted or killed. Yeah! freakin Islam is all about peace.

9.5] So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/k/koran/koran-idx?type=DIV0&byte=282392

you know....for context.

 

[OPGhostdog]

First of all jb_1430 one of my thoughts would give you a Damn
headache for a week.

Feel free to support your emotional rants with something....anything. Otherwise you are merely providing a
demonstration of my point.

Demostration of your POINT? You don't have no point. All
you are doing is wasting time typing your BS, and as far as
me being in denial...you should check your own a**.

Again, Why do people like you seem to always want to try
to reverse things when you're wrong?

 

[ArmChair General]

Yeah, and they vote for conservative politicians... you know... as opposed to self detonating in a crowded market yelling allah Akbar. Whats your point?
And the peace spoken of in the koran is for Muslims living in the Islamic caliphate. And its peaceful because the Christians and jews "pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection" and the idolators have been converted or killed. Yeah! freakin Islam is all about peace.

9.5] So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/k/koran/koran-idx?type=DIV0&byte=282392

you know....for context.

you should read the bible.

 

[OPGhostdog]

I think Ghost dog is more representative
of the majority of Muslims who are in a state of denial.

You think??? You are the one that seems to have a state of
denial on the brains. Notice how you write your comments
everytime you submit a post, and the way you bounce back
and forth you are not only in denial but ignorant as well.

Can you submit one comment/post without quoting from what
someone else wrote. You are making yourself look dumber by
arguing with me about my own religion. Something that I have
been involved in long before you stopped having wet dreams.

In closing to Burning Girffee. I could care less who is the last
to go down in history, due to the fact that 90% of your White
history is science fiction to me, and I have my own Black History.
Meaning, that society is provided with two different types of
cultural history, and its enough room in history for everyone.