Question 4 for Christians

[pocketfullofshells]

As horrible as the Holocaust was, by it happening prophecy was fulfilled. Israel is again a State and is flourishing, just as it was written it would be thousands of years ago, hundreds of years before it fell.

What is Evil? You ask why GOD would allow evil. How do you know what is evil unless you compare it with something else….. Something that is good. You don’t know what is good till you have had something bad. There are degrees of evil. Hitler, Nero was the most evil I know of, but they might be considered teddy bears to a monster that is said to come.

What is great? Something better than just good? Unless you have been through some really rough times, I am not sure you can appreciate fully the really good and blessed times.

This Utopia that is to come…... How would a person really and truly appreciate it, enough to never let it become like the world we live in, without having seen and felt what we actually live in and the consequences that happen because of it.

Unless the Devine Creator made robots, people will have to learn through experience how to become our full potential. And if He made robots, what would be the point.

How do you call Hitler and other Evil , and then say that the Holocaust was fulfilling a prophecy. If that is true then Hitler acted under a plan set in motion by God. If that is True, its Clear God is a Genocidal Mad man who cares nothing for the suffering of man.

If there is a plan for all things, then there is not good and evil just a script set by a powerful child with a blood lust.

 

[Pandora]

How do you call Hitler and other Evil , and then say that the Holocaust was fulfilling a prophecy. If that is true then Hitler acted under a plan set in motion by God. If that is True, its Clear God is a Genocidal Mad man who cares nothing for the suffering of man.

If there is a plan for all things, then there is not good and evil just a script set by a powerful child with a blood lust.

Judas was also called evil but through him a prophecy was fulfilled. Nebakanezer too.! And many others. Why is it weird to you that the Devine Creator of all things can make a wonderful thing happen out of a horrible tragedy?

 

[BigRob]

I read this the other day, thought it could fit in:

In much the same way that God allows evil people to commit evil acts, God allows the earth to demonstrate the consequences sin has had on Creation. Romans 8:19-21 tells us, “The creation waits in eager expectation for the sons of God to be revealed. For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God.” The fall of humanity into sin had effects on everything, including the universe we inhabit. Everything in Creation is subject to “frustration” and “decay.” Sin is the ultimate cause of natural disasters just as it is the cause of death, disease, and suffering.

 

[Pandora]

I read this the other day, thought it could fit in:

I liked that

 

[9sublime]

This is yet to explain why natural evil exists though.

The free will defense and Iranean and Augustine theodessys attempt, poorly and illogically to explain moral evil, but natural evil is yet to really even be attempted to be explained.

Why would God create the world with the possibility of tsunamis?

 

[Dr.Who]

This is yet to explain why natural evil exists though.

The free will defense and Iranean and Augustine theodessys attempt, poorly and illogically to explain moral evil, but natural evil is yet to really even be attempted to be explained.

Why would God create the world with the possibility of tsunamis?

I thought it was explained.

God is Holy and maintained and held the universe together in pefection until the first sin. Sin separates us and our universe from the blessings of God and allows the natural world to be frustrated and to decay.


When the world was first created there was no possiblity of tsunamis or thorns. Now, after sin. there is. Who was the author of that first sin - it was not God.

God has a plan to bring as many people back into communion with him in Heaven as possible. Whatever happens works out to bring about that end. There is no greater good.

When men committed evil by crucifying Jesus they intended it for evil (and it was) but God used it for good. He did not thwart the plans of the evil men. They have free will to do as they will generally. He knew beforehand what they would do. He permitted it. Christ's death brings salvation to all mankind. It was good. Do you see how as it was intended by men it was evil and as it was permitted by God it was good?

 

[9sublime]

I thought it was explained.

God is Holy and maintained and held the universe together in pefection until the first sin. Sin separates us and our universe from the blessings of God and allows the natural world to be frustrated and to decay.

Please show me solid proof for this. Where has this come from? This has no logic behind it, it is just backed up by scripture.

When the world was first created there was no possiblity of tsunamis or thorns. Now, after sin. there is. Who was the author of that first sin - it was not God.

I repeat, why should I believe this? It has just as much proof behind it as any other guess... and thats all it is... a guess. You've just chosen to believe it becuase other people have told you to.

God has a plan to bring as many people back into communion with him in Heaven as possible. Whatever happens works out to bring about that end. There is no greater good.

I repeat, why should I believe this?

When men committed evil by crucifying Jesus they intended it for evil (and it was) but God used it for good. He did not thwart the plans of the evil men. They have free will to do as they will generally. He knew beforehand what they would do. He permitted it. Christ's death brings salvation to all mankind. It was good. Do you see how as it was intended by men it was evil and as it was permitted by God it was good?

At least the cosmological argument, and to some extent the teleological argument and theodessies have logic behind them, not just unfounded nonsense that sounds more like a fairytale than an explanation of the existence of a creator.

If I believe this, it means putting my trust in what you say, because you read it in a 2,000 year old book and your parents told you to believe it maybe.

No thanks.

 

[BigRob]

Please show me solid proof for this. Where has this come from? This has no logic behind it, it is just backed up by scripture.



I repeat, why should I believe this? It has just as much proof behind it as any other guess... and thats all it is... a guess. You've just chosen to believe it becuase other people have told you to.



I repeat, why should I believe this?



At least the cosmological argument, and to some extent the teleological argument and theodessies have logic behind them, not just unfounded nonsense that sounds more like a fairytale than an explanation of the existence of a creator.

If I believe this, it means putting my trust in what you say, because you read it in a 2,000 year old book and your parents told you to believe it maybe.

No thanks.

If your mind is already made up, stop asking the question.

 

[Dr.Who]

Please show me solid proof for this. Where has this come from? This has no logic behind it, it is just backed up by scripture.



I repeat, why should I believe this? It has just as much proof behind it as any other guess... and thats all it is... a guess. You've just chosen to believe it becuase other people have told you to.



I repeat, why should I believe this?



At least the cosmological argument, and to some extent the teleological argument and theodessies have logic behind them, not just unfounded nonsense that sounds more like a fairytale than an explanation of the existence of a creator.

If I believe this, it means putting my trust in what you say, because you read it in a 2,000 year old book and your parents told you to believe it maybe.

No thanks.

When you asked "why would God...?" You set the stage for a discussion based on the assumption that there is a God. Hence my answers start from there and my God is the one who wrote those scriptures I posted.

That is my opinion. You know it is my opinion. You know there is no proof for your opinion or mine. Why would you demand proof for something you know is an opinion?

You have been given an understanding of how I and many other Christians think about this. What more can you ask for than an understanding of how others think?

Once you understand how another thinks then ask yourself given the set of assumptions that they start with does it all make sense. If yes then you have an understanding of the question you started with.

In the end you may reject the answer because you do not agree with one or more of the starting assumptions. That is your choice.

 

[pocketfullofshells]

Judas was also called evil but through him a prophecy was fulfilled. Nebakanezer too.! And many others. Why is it weird to you that the Devine Creator of all things can make a wonderful thing happen out of a horrible tragedy?

Because why should a God have to? Why would a God need to have a baby be born sick, suffer for a few years and then Die? Why to make some good happen to a few hundred thousand have to go threw the holocaust and the horrible suffering inflicted on them. That God, is a **** ***** to me, and I would not want to be friends with, hang with, or even let live ...let alone bow down and grovel at its feet like a animal begging for scraps.

 

[9sublime]

If your mind is already made up, stop asking the question.

My mind is not made up, I'm firmly an agnostic. I just don't see how scripture can be regarded as truth, when there is no proof behind what is written on the paper.

 

[Federal Farmer]

My mind is not made up, I'm firmly an agnostic. I just don't see how scripture can be regarded as truth, when there is no proof behind what is written on the paper.

Actually, much of what's written in the Bible has proved to be historically accurate, through the archaeological record. The parts having to do strictly with "faith" however can never be proven, nor disproved, which is why it's called faith.

 

[BigRob]

My mind is not made up, I'm firmly an agnostic. I just don't see how scripture can be regarded as truth, when there is no proof behind what is written on the paper.

I think the idea of scripture being regarded as "truth" just means the ideas contained in the scripture are a good way to lead your life. I mean it basically says be nice to each other.

 

[Dr.Who]

Because why should a God have to? Why would a God need to have a baby be born sick, suffer for a few years and then Die? Why to make some good happen to a few hundred thousand have to go threw the holocaust and the horrible suffering inflicted on them. That God, is a **** ***** to me, and I would not want to be friends with, hang with, or even let live ...let alone bow down and grovel at its feet like a animal begging for scraps.

Firstly, you have misunderstood and mischaracterized God grossly.

Second, is your Dad 100% perfect and did you disown him? He is the only Dad you have right?

God is the only God around, whether you believe that or not, and there is only one game in town, like it or not.

You can disown God based on your own false understanding of who He is but you will only be throwing away a relationship with the only heavenly Father there is.

Why should a baby be born sick? The alternative is for God to obliterate the things that caused the sickness. That would be sin. For God to obliterate sin He would need to stop every person on earth from doing anything wrong. They would have no ability to make any wrong choice. They would have no free will. This is a greater wrong than permitting us to experience the consequences of our sins. Consequences that are here to teach us and promote spiritual growth so that we can live with God in heaven. Would you have us all be perfectly healthy and ignorant of our need to correct sin and then die forever? Or would you have us experience some pain in life as lesson so that we can live forever?

Worship of God is intended to be a relationship like a loving son to a loving father. Children who have poor relationships with their Fathers should seek a better relationship rather than maintaining a poor one that involves either rebellion or groveling.

 

[Dr.Who]

I think the idea of scripture being regarded as "truth" just means the ideas contained in the scripture are a good way to lead your life. I mean it basically says be nice to each other.

Should there be justice for those who are not nice or should wrongdoing be ignored?