Prove that God doesn't exist.

[Mare Tranquillity]

Excuse me but.........You used my name FIVE times in that one sentence! (there are copyright infringement protections you know)

I'm just trying to write down to the Bible-beaters, don't like it? Smite me!

 

[Mare Tranquillity]

Sure we would. There always has been, and always will be, those who will deny the existence of God, and work tirelessly in an attempt to destroy that belief in others.

If one believes in God, especially the Christian God, then one could hardly support abortion, homosexuality, feminism in its modern form, and a whole host of other issues. Men would be encouraged to work for a living to support their families rather then allow the State to do it for them. Women would be proud to be mothers, and wives, and would protect, and nurture, their children rather then persuing a career over raising a family. In reality, the earth would be cleaner since Christians are the true environmentalists such as the Amish.

God is the basis for morality, and for a concern for others rather then one's self. That is why He has to be destroyed in the minds of some.

Now, one of your remarks would be that women have to work. That is BS. Women were first encouraged to go to work for the cheap labor, and that has not changed.

This is the 21st century, not the 15th. A close reading of the Bible exposes so many terrible moral actions by the Christian god and his "good" people that there is little that can be said to be "immoral". Slavery, selling children, genocide, incest, child abuse, rape, kidnapping, and homosexuality are all accepted behaviors in parts of the Bible--if you don't know that, then you are not the Bible scholar you think you are.

Now that women outnumber men on this planet are you advocating that they engage in plural marriage so that they can stay home?

As far as homosexuality goes, let's all remember when mental illness was condemned by the Christians as demon possession and the poor bastards were beaten and tortured to drive out the demons. Let's remember too when the Christians said that being left-handed was an indication of a person having been touched by the Devil. What about the doctrine that said women didn't have souls? That dark skin was the Mark of Cain? That alcoholism was just moral turpitude? How about the wonderful test to prove whether a woman had commited adultery in Numbers 5:11-31?

Don't come to me with the Bible as your source of authority when I know that the contents of the Bible were VOTED on in the Council of Nicea, that one of the most vitriolic debates was whether Jesus was even Devine. Remember, you said that you believe what's easy to believe.

 

[OldTrapper]

This is the 21st century, not the 15th. A close reading of the Bible exposes so many terrible moral actions by the Christian god and his "good" people that there is little that can be said to be "immoral". Slavery, selling children, genocide, incest, child abuse, rape, kidnapping, and homosexuality are all accepted behaviors in parts of the Bible--if you don't know that, then you are not the Bible scholar you think you are.

Ahhh, but I am, and your distortion of what the Bible teaches will not change that.

I will not address each of your false contentions since that would obviously take too much time. However, homosexuality was never condoned; genocide was never condoned; incest was forbidden by the Law of Moses; the selling of children spoken of in the OT was for human sacrifice which was condemned, and other examples of selling of children was by poor parents who would do so so the child could get a better upbringing; rape was punishable by death; kidnapping? Where is there an example of that in the OT that is accepted, and not punished?

http://www.godwords.org/posts.php?id=31

Now that women outnumber men on this planet are you advocating that they engage in plural marriage so that they can stay home?

Women have always outnumbered men. It is genetically programed just as it is for them to live longer. Having said that, I have questions regarding polygamy. It is obvious that it is tolerated, not approved of though, in the OT, however, Christ only spoke of one man, and one woman. This is one of those topics I leave to the individual, and his faith.

As far as homosexuality goes, let's all remember when mental illness was condemned by the Christians as demon possession and the poor bastards were beaten and tortured to drive out the demons. Let's remember too when the Christians said that being left-handed was an indication of a person having been touched by the Devil. What about the doctrine that said women didn't have souls? That dark skin was the Mark of Cain? That alcoholism was just moral turpitude? How about the wonderful test to prove whether a woman had commited adultery in Numbers 5:11-31?

Now you have gone into the realm of accusing Christians with the false teachings of the Roman Catholic Church; the inquizitions; and certain of the "Puritan" sects, not the Bible itself. Obviously there are examples of demon possession in the Bible, however, the "cures" for such are not as you mention. The "Mark of Cain", left handedness, souless women, are never mentioned in the Bible. As to Numbers 5, I have no explanation for that particular practice save to say I would think it stopped a lot of men from falsely accusing their wives.

Don't come to me with the Bible as your source of authority when I know that the contents of the Bible were VOTED on in the Council of Nicea, that one of the most vitriolic debates was whether Jesus was even Devine. Remember, you said that you believe what's easy to believe.

Actually, the debate over the Bible, and its contents, was the Council of Carthage. The Council of Nicea was brought forth to condemn Araianism which was a heresy taught by Arius in the No. African churches, created a war between the Orthodox Church, and the Roman Church, and was eventually ended.

Now, while I may have said it is easier for me to believe in the existence of God rather then deny His existence, I NEVER said I believe what was easy to believe. I guess that was just another of your "honest" comments.

As to the contents of the Bible, Church historians such as Eusebius, spent years gathering copies of the writings of Church patriarchs such as Ignatius, Papias, Tatian, Justin Martyr, Polycarp, etc., to determine which books were truely written by the Apostles, or others, and which were heresies, frauds, etc. Remember, this was after the scourge of Diocletian, and the burning of any original manuscripts, or copies, that could be found.

Anyway, hope that helps you

 

[samsara15]

Sure we would. There always has been, and always will be, those who will deny the existence of God, and work tirelessly in an attempt to destroy that belief in others.

If one believes in God, especially the Christian God, then one could hardly support abortion, homosexuality, feminism in its modern form, and a whole host of other issues. Men would be encouraged to work for a living to support their families rather then allow the State to do it for them. Women would be proud to be mothers, and wives, and would protect, and nurture, their children rather then persuing a career over raising a family. In reality, the earth would be cleaner since Christians are the true environmentalists such as the Amish.

God is the basis for morality, and for a concern for others rather then one's self. That is why He has to be destroyed in the minds of some.

Now, one of your remarks would be that women have to work. That is BS. Women were first encouraged to go to work for the cheap labor, and that has not changed.

and you want to shove your morality, and your view of life, down everyone else's throat. Your morality does not seem very moral to non-believers.

 

[OldTrapper]

So you believe what's easy to believe. I mostly look at the evidence

Guess I should have done this one first.

You only look for evidence to support your position, not for evidence in opposition to it. Too many people more educated, and brighter, then you have tried to disprove the Bible, and ended up believers instead. People such as Sturgeon, and C.S. Lewis.

Now, I never said I believed what ws easy. I said I find it harder to believe there is no God. You just want to spin it your way.

You mean to tell me that it was atheists who passed all those laws against gay people? It was atheists who burned a million women at the stake for being witches? It was atheists who ran the Crusades and the Inquistion? You do have a unique view of history.

ALL those laws against gay people? The only ones I know of were moral laws, and had to do with sexual activity. Other actions were not based on the law, just on a persons personal beliefs, such as an employer, and the left, secularists (Atheists), and other groups then enacted court cases, and laws, to benefit them at the expense of the individuals right to make their own hiring decisions, or renting of a house. There is nothing in the Constitution that demands one not be a bigot.

A million women? Give it as break. And the crusades was started by an RCC Pope, not by Christians. Then too, do you think the crusades were not justified to a point? Do you not think that the Crusades saved Europe? When the Islamic troll was posting, and referred to building on skulls, he must have been referring to the Muslim Tamarlane who required that the heads of Christians be placed at the city gate of which a reported 90,000 were piled at Baghdad.

History is most often rewritten by the left wing as we can see in the modern texbooks.

Christians right now are trying to pass a Constitutional amendment to ban gay people from having the same legal rights as all other consenting adults in this country--and they are doing it with the force of law based on nothing but their greater numerical presence.

Of course you are referring to marriage a right homosexuals are not denied. No male homosexual is denied the right to marry a woman, nor is a lesbian denied the right to marry a man. What you want is a special right where homosexuality is determined to be equal to that of heterosexuality.

If you have examples of atheists forcing their beliefs on others I'd be interested in seeing them.

Here again is an example of your perversion of history, and current events. In 1963 Atheist Maureen O'Hair pursuaded the USSC to enact a ruling that had the result of preventing prayer in schools; mentioning God at graduation ceremonies; setting the stage for Atheists to prevent the Christian from displaying nativity scenes, or the ten commandments, on public grounds; removing crosses from public cemetaries, State flags, etc. Then there is the teaching of evolution, under power of the law, which denies the existence of God. Also is the teaching of homosexuality as a normal lifestyle, under power of law, which denies the morality of God. All of this is directed mainly at the young of the country thus teaching the youth of the country a belief that is contrary to the belief of their parents, and if they reject that teaching they are suspended from school, given a failing grade, etc. Lawsuits have even been brought forward to try and force Christian groups to hire those who they believe are in direct opposition to their beliefs such as Atheists, witches, etc.

As I have noted previously, no one makes fun of Quakers, but the Rev. Fred Phelps and the Pat Robertsons of the Christian religion make it a mockery all by themselves. When Christians ignore the 6 most important words in the whole Bible (according to Jesus) and run rampant over people they have passed judgment on (something else they are forbidden to do) then they deserve all the mockery they receive. The egregious self-righteous hyposcrisy makes them the butt of jokes, not the returning of good for evil or turning the other cheek.

Christians all over the country have rejected the actions of Phelps, and do not consider him to be legitimate. Robertson has made some comments which are objectionable, yet the majority of his teachings are based on biblical principles, and his charity groups have done more good for the poor in foreign countries, as well as the US, then any secular group, or the Atheist groups.

Have you heard of the Patriot Guard? It is a group of veterans that has been formed to prevent those of whom you would approve from disturbing the funerals of fallen soldiers which you would not consider the equivalent of a Fred Phelps.

As to judgement, there is nothing in the Bible to prevent one from judging another in matters of this life, only in the afterlife. Paul made that quite clear in 1Cor. 5:3, and in many other verses. Also in Leviticus, Deuteronomy, etc., the rules are given upon how to judge. For one to claim that a Christian has not the right, or the obligation, to judge in ludicrous on the facr of it, and is only used by others to mock, or ridicule, the Christian since you have no understanding of God, and would wish for those who do to just set in a corner, and shut up. Kind of like the Romans of olden times, if left to your own devices you would persecute the Christian to the same end.

We don't know who did what or why, if assuming that it was a god makes you happy, then by all means believe that, but please don't try to force me to share your beliefs, don't try to use the law to make me obey your religous tenets.

As I have pointed out, it is not the Christian that is trying to force anyone to believe anything. As to actions, the country is slowly, and lately more rapidly, sliding in your amoral direction, and we can see the results on the school grounds, in the streets, and in government as a whole.

 

[OldTrapper]

and you want to shove your morality, and your view of life, down everyone else's throat. Your morality does not seem very moral to non-believers.

Tell me just how this is being done, and be specific so I can show how you are fooling yourself.

 

[Neutral Evil]

I believe that god does exist, but he is more a product of man´s imagination. We have no solid proof that he has ever visited Earth, other than religious claims to it, which God has never personally visited humanity to verify. God is one of our creations, one of our desires to believe in something more powerful than us. This is an admirable goal and can give others strength and belief. It may also inspire people to follow standards more closely, as the concept of God seeks to reinforce them.

 

[OldTrapper]

I believe that god does exist, but he is more a product of man´s imagination. We have no solid proof that he has ever visited Earth, other than religious claims to it, which God has never personally visited humanity to verify. God is one of our creations, one of our desires to believe in something more powerful than us. This is an admirable goal and can give others strength and belief. It may also inspire people to follow standards more closely, as the concept of God seeks to reinforce them.

There are only two examples of God directly appearing to man, Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden, and Moses on Mt. Sinai. Then there was Christ.

Since all of them are dead (physically) it just leaves faith.

Makes me wonder though, for someone that some believe does not exist why they fight so hard to discourage others from believing in Him.

 

[top gun]

Tell me just how this is being done, and be specific so I can show how you are fooling yourself.

In America EVERYONE is free to express THEIR OWN religious beliefs or lack thereof.

For that is why many fled to the New World in the first place to escape the religious control and persecution by The Church of England that had so intertwined itself with government that it actually was a huge part of their government.

The Founders wanted no part of that ever repeating in America. Many of the Founders weren't even Christians but Deists who believed that there was a Creator a "God" but that God only started the basic elements of life and then disappeared with no further influence on the outcome nor heaven or hell. No relatives of God... no Saints... no Prophets. So it's obvious with such diversity of agreement/disagreement (in this plus all of the hundreds of other religions of the world) the whole "God thing" is totally subjective.

It's much like people being burned at the stake for being witches. There was a time when people obviously believed supernaturally in witches whole heartedly. But through the developing of science & education humans grew past those more primitive beliefs.

And when you look at the science of things, carbon dating, geology, the proven evolution of species and the actual way religion spread, all the thousands of completely different religions and the gods contained therein, the locations of doctrine, the copying of stories of previous & completely different religious beliefs there is absolutely no scientific or factual basis to believe religion to be true. It's ALL a faith in something unprovable. To an unbiased person (a person not indoctrinated into a particular mindset) religion appears to be nothing more than a coping mechanism to help explain the unexplainable to primitive man.

So in conclusion to say, prove God doesn't exist (the intentionally impossible task of proving a super natural negative) is the exact same thing as me saying... prove OldTrapper isn't a witch, or prove fairies or leprechauns don't exist.

The fact is the burden of proof is on the one wanting to make the claim that something DOES exist and not the other way around. And in the case of a god that simply cannot be done.

 

[PLC1]

Now, I never said I believed what ws easy. I said I find it harder to believe there is no God. You just want to spin it your way.

Some find it more difficult to believe that our pretty little blue and green earth just happened, others hat there is a creator god. One or the other unbelievable thing must be true. I'm not sure how it is easier to believe the one than the other. There is no proof.

Personally, I find it easier to believe that there is a creator. It just seems more logical, more believable, than that earth just happened, but that doesn't make it so necessarily, nor does it say anything at all about the nature of that creator.

And the crusades was started by an RCC Pope, not by Christians.

! The Catholic Pope wasn't the leader of the Christians?

Surely, you're not going to tell us that Catholics aren't Christians, are you?

Then too, do you think the crusades were not justified to a point? Do you not think that the Crusades saved Europe?

I'm not sure that "justified" is the right word. The Crusades were an aggressive and decidedly un Christian like attack on Islam that resulted in enmity between the two religions that led to an angry Muslim population that wouldn't allow Christians to cross their land, leading to the development of seafaring by the Europeans, which eventually led to the discovery of the Americas.

The Crusades indirectly had a profound effect on the history of the world, and did lead to the continued spread of Christianity. Surely, no one is going to argue that that outcome was intentional. I'm not so sure that the native inhabitants of the Americas would think that the outcome was positive, either.

History is most often rewritten by the left wing as we can see in the modern texbooks.

History is the account of wars, and it is written by the victors.

Here again is an example of your perversion of history, and current events. In 1963 Atheist Maureen O'Hair pursuaded the USSC to enact a ruling that had the result of preventing prayer in schools;

Prayer in schools is not illegal. Compulsory prayer is illegal. For some reason, there seem to be some modern Christian fundamentalist sects who are big into compulsion. That seems to me to be rather un Christian, but that's just my perspective.

Then there is the teaching of evolution, under power of the law, which denies the existence of God.

There is no conflict between evolution and god. Evolution is a scientific observation. God is a religious concept. The two are not mutually exclusive in any way, unless you want to try to believe that the Earth is really only a few thousand years old.

I think my sig line shows the only way anyone could possibly believe anything so absurd.

Also is the teaching of homosexuality as a normal lifestyle, under power of law, which denies the morality of God.

If god created man, then god created homosexuals as well. Who are you to say that she was wrong?

The Bible has very little to say about homosexuality. It is modern homophobes who make a big deal about it, not the writers of the Bible.

Come to think of it, one must wonder about a man who never married, but spend his time wandering about the world being followed by a contingent of other men, don't you think?

Lawsuits have even been brought forward to try and force Christian groups to hire those who they believe are in direct opposition to their beliefs such as Atheists, witches, etc.

If you don't hire this witch, we'll sue you! LOL

Robertson has made some comments which are objectionable, yet the majority of his teachings are based on biblical principles, and his charity groups have done more good for the poor in foreign countries, as well as the US, then any secular group, or the Atheist groups.

Robertson has made some patently absurd statements, and been lampooned for it. Why would anyone take what he has to say seriously?

Do you believe that an earthquake hit Haiti because their ancestors made a pact with the devil?

How did such patently ridiculous superstition ever survive into the 21st. century?

As I have pointed out, it is not the Christian that is trying to force anyone to believe anything.

No one can force anyone else to believe a thing. The worst they can do is tell us that we must believe what they believe, or incur the wrath of their god.

It seems to me that it is the fundamentalists who would force people to believe what they believe if they could.

As to actions, the country is slowly, and lately more rapidly, sliding in your amoral direction, and we can see the results on the school grounds, in the streets, and in government as a whole.

In some ways, you're correct. There does seem to be a lot more dishonesty, thievery, and thuggery than there used to be. On the other hand there is a lot less bigotry and ignorance than there used to be. Some changes are good, others not.

 

[OldTrapper]

Some find it more difficult to believe that our pretty little blue and green earth just happened, others hat there is a creator god. One or the other unbelievable thing must be true. I'm not sure how it is easier to believe the one than the other. There is no proof.

Personally, I find it easier to believe that there is a creator. It just seems more logical, more believable, than that earth just happened, but that doesn't make it so necessarily, nor does it say anything at all about the nature of that creator.

How can there be anything so complex without a designer? mathematics, which is a science, has shown that the odds of such happening are like 1 in 10 to the 23 power for just one action such as the creation of one focal point of the eye.

! The Catholic Pope wasn't the leader of the Christians?

Surely, you're not going to tell us that Catholics aren't Christians, are you?

Not at all. The "Pope" was the political creation of Constantine. In fact, the first "pope" was not even called "pope". They were called Bishops. That did not come about till either Leo 1 in 440 AD, or Gregory 1 in 590 AD depending on which historian you want to believe. Then too, the RCC only affected the Roman church. The Eastern Orthodox (which included the Patriarchs of Antioch, Jerusalem, Alexandria, and Constantinople) never accepted the power of the RCC. And weven so, at one time the RCC had two "popes" each claiming the same authority. Add to that the period of time called the "Rule of Harlots", Then we have the conquering of the Lombards by Pepin under the direction of Stephan II around 750 AD, and you have the Vatican.

Catholicism is not Christian while some of its adherents may be.

I'm not sure that "justified" is the right word. The Crusades were an aggressive and decidedly un Christian like attack on Islam that resulted in enmity between the two religions that led to an angry Muslim population that wouldn't allow Christians to cross their land, leading to the development of seafaring by the Europeans, which eventually led to the discovery of the Americas.

The Crusades indirectly had a profound effect on the history of the world, and did lead to the continued spread of Christianity. Surely, no one is going to argue that that outcome was intentional. I'm not so sure that the native inhabitants of the Americas would think that the outcome was positive, either.

The main purpose of the Crusades was to stop the spread of Mohammedanism which was threatning to take over all of Europe. Another purpose was to take back Jerusalem from the Muslim hoardes. While there were some aspects of the Crusades that were unsavory, compare them to the actions of the Caliphs of Mohammedism, and how they had conquered all of the lands North including Spain by 711 AD.

Prayer in schools is not illegal. Compulsory prayer is illegal. For some reason, there seem to be some modern Christian fundamentalist sects who are big into compulsion. That seems to me to be rather un Christian, but that's just my perspective.

So, no student has been suspended for attempting to use the name of God at a graduation ceremony; or for drawing a picture of Christ in art class; of for praying over a lunch; or for writing an essay on Christ; and silent prayer before school is allowed; and of course, their are all kinds of Christian displays on school campuses; bible clubs are readily allowed; Christian music is allowed at graduation ceremonies; etc. Right?

Give me an example of how the Christian community has attempted to compel others to do anything, then explain to me why it was Constitutional, and legal, to do this things till the O'Hair case? Tell me why the US Government is still paying for Chaplains as it has done since the founding? Tell me how the US government could have authorized the printing, and distribution, of Bibles under Washington, and the Founders? Tell me how the Statue of Liberty could have been accepted by the government since it has references to Moses, and other scriptural teachings?

There is no conflict between evolution and god. Evolution is a scientific observation. God is a religious concept. The two are not mutually exclusive in any way, unless you want to try to believe that the Earth is really only a few thousand years old.

Evolution denies the existence of a creator as taught in the schools.

If god created man, then god created homosexuals as well. Who are you to say that she was wrong?

The Bible has very little to say about homosexuality. It is modern homophobes who make a big deal about it, not the writers of the Bible.

Come to think of it, one must wonder about a man who never married, but spend his time wandering about the world being followed by a contingent of other men, don't you think?

That is like saying God created cancer. God created all things perfect. There was no disease till several thousand years after the Book of Genesis.

The problem is that man did not follow the commands of God just as Adam, and Eve, did not in the Garden of Eden. Thus disease, and death, entered into the world.

What little is said about homosexuality in the Bible is to condemn it, not to support it. Gods first command to man was to "multiple, and fill the earth" (Genesis 1:28) Homosexuals cannot do this.

If you don't hire this witch, we'll sue you! LOL

It has happened. The first case I was made aware of was back in the 80's involving a Christian boy's camp. Then there was the case involving the BSA, and later the Salvation Army in San Francisco, just to name a few.

Do you believe that an earthquake hit Haiti because their ancestors made a pact with the devil?

No more then I believe in manmade global warming, and that this was the cause of the recent earthquakes incluing the one in Haiti.

No one can force anyone else to believe a thing. The worst they can do is tell us that we must believe what they believe, or incur the wrath of their god.

Hmmmm, no such thing as brainwashing. Jim Jones never existed, as well as Jeffers. Their followers were/are there of their own accord. And, of course, teachers in the schools have no infuence on the minds of children

It seems to me that it is the fundamentalists who would force people to believe what they believe if they could.

Didn't happen for 200 years.

In some ways, you're correct. There does seem to be a lot more dishonesty, thievery, and thuggery than there used to be. On the other hand there is a lot less bigotry and ignorance than there used to be. Some changes are good, others not.

According to the left racism, bigotry, etc., are rising. Then too, it can be proven that the lack of morality is definitely on the increase.

 

[OldTrapper]

If god created man, then god created homosexuals as well. Who are you to say that she was wrong?

Just so you don't think I missed this little bit of sarcasm, God is neither male, nor female, He is spirit. We refer to Him as a "He" simply because He set up a patriarchal system, and Christ referred to Him in the masculine sense.

Come to think of it, one must wonder about a man who never married, but spend his time wandering about the world being followed by a contingent of other men, don't you think?

One might wonder till he figured out that a lot of His contingent were women. Only His apostles were men which goes along with His teaching that man should be the one in authority, not the women.

I was just reminded of another point of contention. In the past 20, or 30, years we have seen a deliberate cause of action on the part of feminists, and homosexuals, to divide the Church. Since they know from past experience they cannot proselytize people by starting their own church's they have infiltrated existing church's with their perverted gospel, and caused divisions within the church body. Christ, and Peter, and other apostles, warned of this in the last days.

Just another example of how they will do anything to compel others to follow their perversions, and to accept them. It is also another example of what God warned of when He said "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge".

 

[OldTrapper]

In America EVERYONE is free to express THEIR OWN religious beliefs or lack thereof.

Except on public property where only the anti-God people have that right, and especally in the schools.

For that is why many fled to the New World in the first place to escape the religious control and persecution by The Church of England that had so intertwined itself with government that it actually was a huge part of their government.

In many cases, such as Britain, and France, not to mention Italy, the Church did control the government. In the case of France, Italy, Spain, etc., it was the RCC. In the case of Britain it was the Church of England.

The Founders wanted no part of that ever repeating in America. Many of the Founders weren't even Christians but Deists who believed that there was a Creator a "God"

Only two, Jefferson, and Franklin, with the possibility of Hugh Williamson. Jefferson was not a signatory to the Constitution though.

It's much like people being burned at the stake for being witches. There was a time when people obviously believed supernaturally in witches whole heartedly.

Surely you are not mocking the Wiccans, Gnostics, or the practioners of VooDoo, all of whom believe in witchcraft? And, BTW, have more rights on school grounds then Christians.

And when you look at the science of things, carbon dating, geology, the proven evolution of species

The evolution of species regarding humans has not been proven. Archeology, geology, and the different dating methods, have all been used to prove that the Bible is true.

The fact is the burden of proof is on the one wanting to make the claim that something DOES exist and not the other way around. And in the case of a god that simply cannot be done.

I see, So one who claims there is no God has no need to prove it, only the one that says there is a God.

Then why are those who do not believe consistently challenging those who do over their practice of their religion in the Courts, the legislative bodies, etc.?

 

[Mare Tranquillity]

Of course you are referring to marriage a right homosexuals are not denied. No male homosexual is denied the right to marry a woman, nor is a lesbian denied the right to marry a man. What you want is a special right where homosexuality is determined to be equal to that of heterosexuality.

It never fails, a so-called Christian with no real substantive education always quotes the KKK and has no knowledge of their faux pas.

Perhaps you don't recall that not only were inter-faith marriages were banned by the Christian church, but so were inter-racial marriages--even in my lifetime. The KKK used the same stupid argument to declare that banning inter-racial marriages was not discriminatory because any white man could marry any willing white woman and any black man could marry any willing black woman. Do you agree with that? Of course you do, the Bible states that owning slaves is acceptable and even says that they can be beaten to death without punishment.

Funny, isn't it that you completely ignore the 6 most important words in the whole of the Bible, according to Jesus? And what about the fact that there are nearly 2000 references to caring for the poor and unfortunate, caring for those who are less well-off than yourself?

I have to work now, but I'll give you scriptural references for the things I stated were in the Bible. I'm amazed that you haven't read the Bible closely enough to have found these things on your own. Tut, tut.

I have to admit that I love your Christian attitude, you are SO HUMBLE in announcing who IS a Christian and who ISN'T--why you're practically god-like, aren't you? Catholics aren't Christian, how about Mormons? Who else have you passed judgment on?

 

[OldTrapper]

It never fails, a so-called Christian with no real substantive education always quotes the KKK and has no knowledge of their faux pas.

Ah yes, the typical response of one who has no where to go. The KKK was a product of those who you support. Now, I am quite assured that you would not even feel my Doctorate in Theology would be adequate for any discussion with one as learned as you most assuredly are.

Perhaps you don't recall that not only were inter-faith marriages were banned by the Christian church,

Ah contraire bloated filly. The only church, aside from some small sects such as the Amish, that denied marriage based on church affiliation was the RCC.

but so were inter-racial marriages--even in my lifetime. The KKK used the same stupid argument to declare that banning inter-racial marriages was not discriminatory because any white man could marry any willing white woman and any black man could marry any willing black woman. Do you agree with that? Of course you do,

Ah yes, the usual "progressive' tactic of telling another what they think. Be careful there, your bigotry is showing through again.

Having been raised in the North, and having several good friends in the 60's who were inter-racial couples, and married, I can rest assured it was by State law, and not by religion.

the Bible states that owning slaves is acceptable and even says that they can be beaten to death without punishment.

You must be getting your talking points from some ignorant Athiest site because surely you have never read the Bible.

Exodus 21:12 He that smiteth a man, so that he die, shall be surely put to death. Lev. 24.17
13 And if a man lie not in wait, but God deliver him into his hand; then I will appoint thee a place whither he shall flee. Num. 35.10-34 · Deut. 19.1-13 · Josh. 20.1-9
14 But if a man come presumptuously upon his neighbor, to slay him with guile; thou shalt take him from mine altar, that he may die.
15 And he that smiteth his father, or his mother, shall be surely put to death.
16 And he that stealeth a man, and selleth him, or if he be found in his hand, he shall surely be put to death. Deut. 24.7

20 And if a man smite his servant, or his maid, with a rod, and he die under his hand; he shall be surely punished.
21 Notwithstanding, if he continue a day or two, he shall not be punished: for he is his money. (Read above for the punishment if you can comprehend the written word)


Laws concerning Responsibility of Owners
26 And if a man smite the eye of his servant, or the eye of his maid, that it perish; he shall let him go free for his eye's sake.
27 And if he smite out his manservant's tooth, or his maidservant's tooth; he shall let him go free for his tooth's sake.

32 If the ox shall push a manservant or a maidservant; he shall give unto their master thirty shekels of silver, and the ox shall be stoned.

Funny, isn't it that you completely ignore the 6 most important words in the whole of the Bible, according to Jesus?

I consider all of the words of Jesus of importance, and you haven't told me just which 6 you think are the most important.

And what about the fact that there are nearly 2000 references to caring for the poor and unfortunate, caring for those who are less well-off than yourself?

And yet not one word about forcing one to do so, or taxing one to pay for it.

Then too, the Bible does say if one shall not work then one shall not eat, and that is forgotten, or ignored, by the likes of you who would use the Bible to attack another, and not out of any kind of love.

Then too, what of the fact that Conservative Christians give far more of their time, and money, to charity then the progressive, or the Athiest? BO gave just 25,000 of his over 1 million he received in 2008 to charity. People like Kerry, Kennedy, Gore, Clinton, etc., give less then one percent. Yet Bush, Cheney, etc., give over 10%. Robertson, Dobson, Falwell (and his foundation does so today), Graham, all have raised billions to help unwed mothers, the poor in this country and overseas, and you would denigrate them.

I have to work now, but I'll give you scriptural references for the things I stated were in the Bible. I'm amazed that you haven't read the Bible closely enough to have found these things on your own. Tut, tut.

You can't because they aren't there as I have shown consistently.

I have to admit that I love your Christian attitude, you are SO HUMBLE in announcing who IS a Christian and who ISN'T--why you're practically god-like, aren't you? Catholics aren't Christian, how about Mormons? Who else have you passed judgment on?

LOL, you are such a hatefilled fool trying to act as if you know so much when you know so little, and let your hate get in the way of actually learning something.

And you really don't want to get into a discussion with me about the RCC, and how harlots actually ruled the papacy ("Rule of Harlots" from 904 to 1049 AD, or even the "Midnight of the Dark Ages"); or how the bastard son of a pope killed his father so he could become the pope; or the inquizition; or how a pope is supposedly "infallible" which did not occur till the 12th. century wth the "False Decretals" and was not confirmed till the Vatican Council in 1870; or how the RCC slaughtered millions of Bereans, Huguenots, Albigenses, and others in their quest for power.

Nor do you want to challenge me on the fraud of Mormonism, and its thief of a founder, Joeseph Smith. Then too, maybe you want to try me on how the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society came into existence for the Jehovah Witness Society.

The too you lied more then once, and would cheerfully do so again. I did not say catholics were not Christians for surely mnay of the adherents of Catholicism are. I did say the church they support is not.