Prove that God doesn't exist.

[top gun]

Everyone should go see the movie Religilous.

While it can't prove a negative "prove God does not exist". It does prove... document excellently actually, that as far as the basic story of the experiences of Jesus and many other highly talked about people in the Bible they are dead on exact copies of different people in different & much older stories told by the Greeks etc.

It also competently compares the Old & New Testament and shows not only glaring differences but also things that just would not have been missed in the Old Testament... a virgin birth etc.

 

[PLC1]

And what exactly about christianity is so hard to swallow, eh?

Stories about walking on water, turning water into wine, raising the dead, and feeding a big crowd with one kid's lunch, stories that were written down years after the alleged events they described after having been passed on by word of mouth at a time when only an elite few could actually read and write at all, are stories like that easy to swallow?

Personally, the premises of m-theory or loop quantum gravity is harder. In fact, they are patently COUNTER-INTUITIVE. I mean, honestly, can you even imagine 'reality' having 11 dimensions???!!! One can imagine going left/right (1), forward/backward (2), up/down (3), before/after (4). Where the hell do the other 7 dimensions go, hmmm?

Or is that obvious as well?

Since we live in a three dimensional world, such theories are difficult to understand.

I don't even claim to understand them.

They might be wrong.

So what does that have to do with the existence or non existence of god, or with whether the Christian god is real or not?

 

[Dr.Who]

Stories about walking on water, turning water into wine, raising the dead, and feeding a big crowd with one kid's lunch, stories that were written down years after the alleged events they described after having been passed on by word of mouth at a time when only an elite few could actually read and write at all, are stories like that easy to swallow?

Basically you are saying that the miraculous (an anomaly of the law of cause and effect as we know it) is incredible. Yet the big bang theory (the most accepted) says that the universe was created from nothing - a contradiction to the law of cause and effect. And the steady state theory (the second best) says that matter is continuously being created from nothing. The law of cause and effect is itself just an assumption based on our observations of the 12 billion year old universe that have all been made in the last few hundred years. It seems pretty arrogant of others to think that by observing the universe for a few hundred years we can understand cause and effect well enough to rule out that the creator of said universe can't bed the rules a little.


The testimonies were written down by eye witnesses in most cases. Within the lifetime of those were could object if they saw things differently. While most people could not read them, they were read publicly in front of large crowds and were often memorized. I think it may also be arrogant to assume an illiterate people to be gullible when they demonstrate themselves to be superior to us by regularly memorizing large portions of text so that they can discuss and debate it. And if they were so smart why didn't they just learn to read instead of taking the more difficult route of memorizing? Because paper was really expensive.

 

[Mare Tranquillity]

And what exactly about christianity is so hard to swallow, eh?

Personally, the premises of m-theory or loop quantum gravity is harder. In fact, they are patently COUNTER-INTUITIVE. I mean, honestly, can you even imagine 'reality' having 11 dimensions???!!! One can imagine going left/right (1), forward/backward (2), up/down (3), before/after (4). Where the hell do the other 7 dimensions go, hmmm?

Or is that obvious as well?

Your lack of imagination is hardly proof of anything but your lack of imagination.

 

[numinus]

While it is true that it takes a strong imagination to envision these other dimesions.. remeber that these extra ones are curled up in on themselves.. so tightly that it is imposssible with currently techonoledgy to see them at all.. but .. just like in god .. we have faith they are there..

Of course.

The idea of a curled dimension first introduced in the kaluza-klein system and liberally borrowed in m-theory. So silly of me to forget. The one conveniently entwined along mare's anal passage and effectively beyond everyone else's scrutiny. The beauty of it is that the parameters of this helix can be easily tinkered to suit observeable data.

Do you find the moral truths of jesus' message 'harder to swallow' than that? The fact is, given a set of ordered pair of remote data, one could derive a functional relationship f(x) for said set of data using a series of partial differentials.

To say that this functional relationship depicts physical reality is nothing more than a leap of faith.

Also .. M- theory is not hipocritcal of itself unlike certain passages in the bible .. and the theory is also trying to confrom itself to the reality that we see while christianity inheriantly asks that you conform yourself to it to view true reality.
Again not downing on christianity .. but i am saying that it does not fill the entire void of knowledge that people need in this new day and age.

Christianity invites you to act according to a standard of moral good. What's hypocritical with that, hmmm?

On the other hand, you need the energy of an entire solar system to verify the predictions of m-theory. And it is supposed to be science.

 

[numinus]

Stories about walking on water, turning water into wine, raising the dead, and feeding a big crowd with one kid's lunch, stories that were written down years after the alleged events they described after having been passed on by word of mouth at a time when only an elite few could actually read and write at all, are stories like that easy to swallow?



Since we live in a three dimensional world, such theories are difficult to understand.

I don't even claim to understand them.

They might be wrong.

So what does that have to do with the existence or non existence of god, or with whether the Christian god is real or not?

You might want to apply the same amount of skepticism you have on christianity on science. Man walking on water vs. curled dimension along mare's a$$? I'd take walking on water any day. At least my logic can live with the idea that it could very well have been an allegorical re-telling or maybe a highly elaborate illusion.

And yes, you are correct. The above is irrelevant to god's existence and to the moral lessons of jesus.

 

[Mare Tranquillity]

The one conveniently entwined along mare's anal passage and effectively beyond everyone else's scrutiny.

I would be very careful claiming any kind of intimate knowledge of my lower alimentary canal since it is strictly an organ of output and any knowledge thereof would suggest a very specific physical, material make-up on your part. If I had said that about you I would be banned, but if you say it about you I can hardly be held to blame. I would never say such a thing about you because I hold you in high esteem--I simply disagree with you on nearly every subject.

 

[numinus]

Your lack of imagination is hardly proof of anything but your lack of imagination.

You mean the imagination necessary to concieve quantum foam? Your nonsense was even featured in mythbusters. Apparently your quantum foam is good only for lubricating parts of your anatomy.

 

[Mare Tranquillity]

You might want to apply the same amount of skepticism you have on christianity on science. Man walking on water vs. curled dimension along mare's a$$? I'd take walking on water any day. At least my logic can live with the idea that it could very well have been an allegorical re-telling or maybe a highly elaborate illusion. They are irrelevant to the moral lessons of jesus.

By God, Nums, I'm a married woman! What is this fixation you have developed on my derriere? Can someone be banned from this site for veiled sexual references to another poster's anatomy?

 

[numinus]

I would be very careful claiming any kind of intimate knowledge of my lower alimentary canal since it is strictly an organ of output and any knowledge thereof would suggest a very specific physical, material make-up on your part. If I had said that about you I would be banned, but if you say it about you I can hardly be held to blame. I would never say such a thing about you because I hold you in high esteem--I simply disagree with you on nearly every subject.

Pardon me if my post led you to believe I have any sort of intimate knowledge with you anal passage. That is not my intention. I was merely speaking metaphorically that, like your anal passage, nothing but crap can come out of the idea of curled dimensions.

As for holding me in 'high esteem' -- I realize that that is for the consumption of the new members. After all of the things you have said to me, forgive me if I'm a bit skeptical.

 

[Mare Tranquillity]

You mean the imagination necessary to concieve quantum foam? Your nonsense was even featured in mythbusters. Apparently your quantum foam is good only for lubricating parts of your anatomy.

Apparently the good parts if your pornographic interest is any indication.

 

[Mare Tranquillity]

You mean the imagination necessary to concieve quantum foam? Your nonsense was even featured in mythbusters. Apparently your quantum foam is good only for lubricating parts of your anatomy.

Poor Nums, it just isn't your day, is it, or did I imgine John Wheeler too?

Quantum foam, also referred to as spacetime foam, is a concept in quantum mechanics, devised by John Wheeler in 1955. The foam is supposedly the foundations of the fabric of the universe,[1] but it can also be used as a qualitative description of subatomic spacetime turbulence at extremely small distances of the order of the Planck length. At such small scales of time and space the uncertainty principle allows particles and energy to briefly come into existence, and then annihilate, without violating conservation laws. As the scale of time and space being discussed shrinks, the energy of the virtual particles increases. Since energy curves spacetime according to Einstein's theory of general relativity, this suggests that at sufficiently small scales the energy of the fluctuations would be large enough to cause significant departures from the smooth spacetime seen at larger scales, giving spacetime a "foamy" character. However, without a theory of quantum gravity it is impossible to be certain what spacetime would look like at these scales, since it is thought that existing theories would no longer give accurate predictions in this domain.

Quantum foam is theorized to be created by virtual particles of very high energy. Virtual particles appear in quantum field theory, where they arise briefly and then annihilate during particle interactions, in such a way that they affect the measured outputs of the interaction even though the virtual particles are themselves never directly observed. They can also appear and annihilate briefly in empty space, and these "vacuum fluctuations" affect the properties of the vacuum, giving it a nonzero energy known as vacuum energy, a type of zero-point energy (however, physicists are uncertain about the magnitude of this energy [2]). The Casimir effect can also be understood in terms of the behavior of virtual particles in the empty space between two parallel plates. Ordinarily quantum field theory does not deal with virtual particles of sufficient energy to curve spacetime significantly, so quantum foam is a speculative extension of these concepts which imagines the consequences of such high-energy virtual particles at very short distances and times.

Quantum foam is theorized to be created by virtual particles of very high energy. Virtual particles appear in quantum field theory, where they arise briefly and then annihilate during particle interactions, in such a way that they affect the measured outputs of the interaction even though the virtual particles are themselves never directly observed. They can also appear and annihilate briefly in empty space, and these "vacuum fluctuations" affect the properties of the vacuum, giving it a nonzero energy known as vacuum energy, a type of zero-point energy (however, physicists are uncertain about the magnitude of this energy [2]). The Casimir effect can also be understood in terms of the behavior of virtual particles in the empty space between two parallel plates. Ordinarily quantum field theory does not deal with virtual particles of sufficient energy to curve spacetime significantly, so quantum foam is a speculative extension of these concepts which imagines the consequences of such high-energy virtual particles at very short distances and times.

Quantum foam is theorized to be created by virtual particles of very high energy. Virtual particles appear in quantum field theory, where they arise briefly and then annihilate during particle interactions, in such a way that they affect the measured outputs of the interaction even though the virtual particles are themselves never directly observed. They can also appear and annihilate briefly in empty space, and these "vacuum fluctuations" affect the properties of the vacuum, giving it a nonzero energy known as vacuum energy, a type of zero-point energy (however, physicists are uncertain about the magnitude of this energy [2]). The Casimir effect can also be understood in terms of the behavior of virtual particles in the empty space between two parallel plates. Ordinarily quantum field theory does not deal with virtual particles of sufficient energy to curve spacetime significantly, so quantum foam is a speculative extension of these concepts which imagines the consequences of such high-energy virtual particles at very short distances and times. The "foamy" spacetime would look like a complex turbulent storm-tossed sea. Some physicists theorize the formation of wormholes therein; speculation arising from this includes the possibility of hyperspatial links to other universes.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_foam

 

[Mare Tranquillity]

Pardon me if my post led you to believe I have any sort of intimate knowledge with you anal passage. That is not my intention. I was merely speaking metaphorically that, like your anal passage, nothing but crap can come out of the idea of curled dimensions.

As for holding me in 'high esteem' -- I realize that that is for the consumption of the new members. After all of the things you have said to me, forgive me if I'm a bit skeptical.

It's good to be skeptical, but I recognize that you are a learned person just as I am, it's just that we disagree on nearly every subject. Doesn't mean that you're right or that I am. You seem to me to have a very odd view of the world, I probably appear the same to you.

I was reading last night about Loop Quantum Cosmology in which they claim to have meshed quantum theory and relativity into a cohesive theory/equation. Are you familiar with this?

 

[numinus]

Poor Nums, it just isn't your day, is it, or did I imgine John Wheeler too?

Quantum foam, also referred to as spacetime foam, is a concept in quantum mechanics, devised by John Wheeler in 1955. The foam is supposedly the foundations of the fabric of the universe,[1] but it can also be used as a qualitative description of subatomic spacetime turbulence at extremely small distances of the order of the Planck length. At such small scales of time and space the uncertainty principle allows particles and energy to briefly come into existence, and then annihilate, without violating conservation laws. As the scale of time and space being discussed shrinks, the energy of the virtual particles increases. Since energy curves spacetime according to Einstein's theory of general relativity, this suggests that at sufficiently small scales the energy of the fluctuations would be large enough to cause significant departures from the smooth spacetime seen at larger scales, giving spacetime a "foamy" character. However, without a theory of quantum gravity it is impossible to be certain what spacetime would look like at these scales, since it is thought that existing theories would no longer give accurate predictions in this domain.

Quantum foam is theorized to be created by virtual particles of very high energy. Virtual particles appear in quantum field theory, where they arise briefly and then annihilate during particle interactions, in such a way that they affect the measured outputs of the interaction even though the virtual particles are themselves never directly observed. They can also appear and annihilate briefly in empty space, and these "vacuum fluctuations" affect the properties of the vacuum, giving it a nonzero energy known as vacuum energy, a type of zero-point energy (however, physicists are uncertain about the magnitude of this energy [2]). The Casimir effect can also be understood in terms of the behavior of virtual particles in the empty space between two parallel plates. Ordinarily quantum field theory does not deal with virtual particles of sufficient energy to curve spacetime significantly, so quantum foam is a speculative extension of these concepts which imagines the consequences of such high-energy virtual particles at very short distances and times.

Quantum foam is theorized to be created by virtual particles of very high energy. Virtual particles appear in quantum field theory, where they arise briefly and then annihilate during particle interactions, in such a way that they affect the measured outputs of the interaction even though the virtual particles are themselves never directly observed. They can also appear and annihilate briefly in empty space, and these "vacuum fluctuations" affect the properties of the vacuum, giving it a nonzero energy known as vacuum energy, a type of zero-point energy (however, physicists are uncertain about the magnitude of this energy [2]). The Casimir effect can also be understood in terms of the behavior of virtual particles in the empty space between two parallel plates. Ordinarily quantum field theory does not deal with virtual particles of sufficient energy to curve spacetime significantly, so quantum foam is a speculative extension of these concepts which imagines the consequences of such high-energy virtual particles at very short distances and times.

Quantum foam is theorized to be created by virtual particles of very high energy. Virtual particles appear in quantum field theory, where they arise briefly and then annihilate during particle interactions, in such a way that they affect the measured outputs of the interaction even though the virtual particles are themselves never directly observed. They can also appear and annihilate briefly in empty space, and these "vacuum fluctuations" affect the properties of the vacuum, giving it a nonzero energy known as vacuum energy, a type of zero-point energy (however, physicists are uncertain about the magnitude of this energy [2]). The Casimir effect can also be understood in terms of the behavior of virtual particles in the empty space between two parallel plates. Ordinarily quantum field theory does not deal with virtual particles of sufficient energy to curve spacetime significantly, so quantum foam is a speculative extension of these concepts which imagines the consequences of such high-energy virtual particles at very short distances and times. The "foamy" spacetime would look like a complex turbulent storm-tossed sea. Some physicists theorize the formation of wormholes therein; speculation arising from this includes the possibility of hyperspatial links to other universes.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_foam

Of course quantum foam has been theorized. The fantasy part of your idea is that it could solve the energy problem of the world today. Which prompted me to speculate exactly what sort of foam were you talking about.

 

[Mare Tranquillity]

Of course quantum foam has been theorized. The fantasy part of your idea is that it could solve the energy problem of the world today. Which prompted me to speculate exactly what sort of foam were you talking about.

Wait a second, you're attacking me for talking about somebody else's theory? Doesn't that tend to dampen the conversation when there is some kind of theoretical "litmus" test before one can discuss things. I recall that continental drift was one of those verboten subjects when it was first proposed and people excoriated anyone who had the temerity to talk about it.