Prove that God doesn't exist.

[numinus]

So are you really saying that the Bible is just a series of subjective accounts of something that happened and therefore not necessarily true in any objective sense? These are just what people thought they saw or heard as best they can remember it years later when they wrote it down.

NO.

It is a subjective account of an objective truth.

Does this imply that the revisions of the Bible down through history are also just subjective accounts of someone's experiences derived from reading someone's subjective account of something that happened hundreds or thousands of years ago?

Correct.

How does one give any credibility that kind of conglomeration of stuff?

Through the operation of the reasoning faculty - specifically - hermeneutics.

Has the "single, immutable truth" been lost in translation? If not what is it, please?

That we, and the universe we live in, is CREATED.

 

[numinus]

I can prove that God exists.




For those with undeniable faith in God he is absolute and exists. While this doesn't directly effect those who do not believe any more than Vishnu effects a Christian, nonetheless God does exist for those people. The special virtue that all religions contain is that they're based on faith and the existence of something unverifiable as well as impossible to disprove. As such believing creates these Gods of all religions as real and tangible to those who believe as my glass of diet cola is to me.

Now the question can one prove to someone else the existence of any deity....no. That is inherent and simply why it IS faith.

No faith required, only logic.

How that god manifests in relation to one's self - now that is faith.

 

[9sublime]

I can prove that God exists.




For those with undeniable faith in God he is absolute and exists. While this doesn't directly effect those who do not believe any more than Vishnu effects a Christian, nonetheless God does exist for those people. The special virtue that all religions contain is that they're based on faith and the existence of something unverifiable as well as impossible to disprove. As such believing creates these Gods of all religions as real and tangible to those who believe as my glass of diet cola is to me.

Now the question can one prove to someone else the existence of any deity....no. That is inherent and simply why it IS faith.

Imagine I lived in a contained village or something where everyone believed the world was flat, and they had forged proof (satellite pictures, scientific thoeries etc), and I was absoloutley convinced about it. It doesn't make it right, just because I believe it so much.

 

[ArmChair General]

But it still doesn't prove that god doesn't exist. The challenge in the title of this thread has never been met. No one has proven that god doesn't exist.

Back a few posts, I challenged anyone who wanted to to prove that I'm not god. No one was even able to do that.

Only a fool beileves that the title of the thread makes any sense.

You can't prove that God doesn't exist anymore than you can prove that Unicorns and Leprachauns don't exist.

You can't prove a negative. Though, if you were God, I can think of many ways that YOU could prove it.

 

[ArmChair General]

Well it's hard to provide solid evidence that anyone lived 2000 years ago. Ultimately, it all comes down to word of mouth and whether or not you choose to have faith.

Actually thats not true. We have quite a bit of evidence for many historical figures that lived 2000 years ago and beyond.

Also, since people claim that this Jesus character is some sort of man-god walking around on Earth, you'd think you would need a little bit of evidence to prove he existed. The stakes are higher in this case and it deserves our scrutiny.

 

[USMC the Almighty]

Actually thats not true. We have quite a bit of evidence for many historical figures that lived 2000 years ago and beyond.

Also, since people claim that this Jesus character is some sort of man-god walking around on Earth, you'd think you would need a little bit of evidence to prove he existed. The stakes are higher in this case and it deserves our scrutiny.

Fair. To be honest, it's not that big of a deal to me. I'm not Christian and don't follow any organized religion. If I lived back in the 18th century, I definitely would've been a Deist.

 

[PLC1]

Ultimately, one cannot prove a negative. The thread title is ridiculous, it would be far better to have PROVE THAT GOD EXISTS and thus put the onus on the believers to show cause.

My point exactly.

 

[vyo476]

That we, and the universe we live in, is CREATED.

So you're a Deist?

 

[Mare Tranquillity]

Through the operation of the reasoning faculty - specifically - hermeneutics.

hermeneutics: the study of the methodological principles of interpretation and explanation; specifically : the study of the general principles of biblical interpretation <hermeneutics became a weapon in ecclesiastical controversies -- J.H.Summers

Basically saying that we argue about it until someone resorts to violence and kills the people who don't agree--or at least that's been the way of it so far. If you are going to try to prove God existence by using the Bible, then you have your work cut out for you. In all of human history NO ONE has been able to prove that God exists--it can't be done, except by God.

That we, and the universe we live in, is CREATED.

That's it? The whole flogging Bible takes tens of thousands of words to make that statement? What about all the other stuff in there? Do you realize that God could have chiseled that statement on the surface of the Moon and saved millions of human lives that have been forfeit due to religious wars? This is why I don't give any credibility to the Bible interpretations of anyone--they are creatively contradictory to the point of insanity.

 

[numinus]

hermeneutics: the study of the methodological principles of interpretation and explanation; specifically : the study of the general principles of biblical interpretation <hermeneutics became a weapon in ecclesiastical controversies -- J.H.Summers

Basically saying that we argue about it until someone resorts to violence and kills the people who don't agree--or at least that's been the way of it so far. If you are going to try to prove God existence by using the Bible, then you have your work cut out for you. In all of human history NO ONE has been able to prove that God exists--it can't be done, except by God.

Where did you get that definition.

All ancient documents can be subjected to hemeneutics - and not specifically the bible.

And can one not read between the lines to arrive at a fuller meaning of a specific text?

That's it? The whole flogging Bible takes tens of thousands of words to make that statement? What about all the other stuff in there? Do you realize that God could have chiseled that statement on the surface of the Moon and saved millions of human lives that have been forfeit due to religious wars? This is why I don't give any credibility to the Bible interpretations of anyone--they are creatively contradictory to the point of insanity.

And god did make that statement - in the language of MATHEMATICS.

Have you ever wondered WHY all physical laws, in their entirety and without ambiguity, can ONLY be couched in mathematics?

Have you ever wondered WHY transcendental numbers are as they are in ALL (base-n) number systems?

Have you ever wondered WHY n-dimensional mathematics are still logical despite the fact that NO human sensory experience correspond to them?

There is no physical law, or a combination of physical laws, that would explain this contrived and ordered universe.

It is so because it is so. As fundamental a statement as the self-revelation - I am I.

 

[numinus]

So you're a Deist?

You wish to reduce everything that I said to this inane 4-word question - and whatever else you imagine it implies?

I'm a deist. What of it?

 

[saggyjones]

There's no way to prove that God does or doesn't exist. What we can prove is that the Bible isn't completely factual. We know that people were around before the Bible says they were and that evolution is accepted by pretty much the entire scientific community. But it's impossible to prove (or disprove) that there is a God out there somewhere.

 

[Mare Tranquillity]

Where did you get that definition.

Silly me, I went to the Merriam-Webster Unabridged Dictionary (updated July 2007)

All ancient documents can be subjected to hemeneutics - and not specifically the bible.

And can one not read between the lines to arrive at a fuller meaning of a specific text?

Perhaps all texts can be so subjected, but what it comes down to is that you or whomever is reading between the lines is INTERPRETING what they read rather than going by what is ACTUALLY written there. And each person doing so, will read and interpret it differently. That's why there are umpteen versions of the Bible (the Reader's Digest Condensed Bible, the Unisex Bible, and the Joseph Smith Inspired Bibles are my favorites because they are such egregious examples of what people have been doing to the Bible for centuries by "reading between the lines"). This interesting process of "reading between the lines" is also responsible for the more than 2500 sects of Christians in the world today.

And god did make that statement - in the language of MATHEMATICS.Have you ever wondered WHY all physical laws, in their entirety and without ambiguity, can ONLY be couched in mathematics? Have you ever wondered WHY transcendental numbers are as they are in ALL (base-n) number systems? Have you ever wondered WHY n-dimensional mathematics are still logical despite the fact that NO human sensory experience correspond to them? There is no physical law, or a combination of physical laws, that would explain this contrived and ordered universe.
It is so because it is so. As fundamental a statement as the self-revelation - I am I.

I don't have any problem with mathematics, but you are the one who has been claiming axioms and human reason and morality are fixed and universal. Nothing you have posted supports those claims.

 

[ArmChair General]

Silly me, I went to the Merriam-Webster Unabridged Dictionary (updated July 2007)


Perhaps all texts can be so subjected, but what it comes down to is that you or whomever is reading between the lines is INTERPRETING what they read rather than going by what is ACTUALLY written there. And each person doing so, will read and interpret it differently. That's why there are umpteen versions of the Bible (the Reader's Digest Condensed Bible, the Unisex Bible, and the Joseph Smith Inspired Bibles are my favorites because they are such egregious examples of what people have been doing to the Bible for centuries by "reading between the lines"). This interesting process of "reading between the lines" is also responsible for the more than 2500 sects of Christians in the world today.



I don't have any problem with mathematics, but you are the one who has been claiming axioms and human reason and morality are fixed and universal. Nothing you have posted supports those claims.

Im glad you are here Mare Tranquility, I personally wouldnt extend the same 'niceness' to someone as dumb and ignorant as numinus.

For me, its a waste of time. Just calling him an ignorant fundy that deserves to be eaten by lions is good enough for me. But I'm not a very tolerant person.

 

[Mare Tranquillity]

Im glad you are here Mare Tranquility, I personally wouldnt extend the same 'niceness' to someone as dumb and ignorant as numinus.

For me, its a waste of time. Just calling him an ignorant fundy that deserves to be eaten by lions is good enough for me. But I'm not a very tolerant person.

Thanks, General, some of my best friends are fundies, in fact two of my brothers are as well. Okay, so none of my friends are fundies and neither of my brothers speaks to me much either, but, Hey, Jesus said to love your neighbors as yourself and I like the teachings of Jesus--it's just His self-identified followers that I have problems with usually.