Oregon passes tax increases on corporations and the wealthy..

[GenSeneca]

Nope, the right to have acces to the things that will allow them to continue living.

Unless they are an unborn child, then you should have the right to kill them.

 

[citizenzen]

We did not become the country we are today through the redistribution of wealth.

Semantics. I'm not saying the redistribution was the sole cause of this country's greatness, that would be an absurdly simplistic point of view. But it's safe to say that it didn't prevent the progress that we've enjoyed.

I believe at this point it's incumbent upon you to provide an example of a modern nation that doesn't engage in some form of wealth redistribution and argue why we'd be better off adopting that scheme.

We know our system works and has worked for nearly one hundred years. What do you offer to replace it?

 

[Mare Tranquillity]

But that's the way it is. SS is a huge redistribution of wealth and you cannot argue that it is not.

But we pay into it for that redistribution, it's not like Bill Gates gets a bill every month for all of us. I think that SS has done a great deal of good despite the fact that it has been raided by greedy people who have stolen the money and enriched themselves with it.

Sure they do. For one, they don't pay taxes to support the military but they get all the benefits. Our military keeps them safe, it keeps our shipping lanes safe from pirates so they can get cheap foreign goods that are affordable, it creates jobs in both the public and private sector so the people who do pay taxes can have their wealth redistributed into social welfare programs. The poor definately do get benefits from the existence of our military.

They get a pittance back from the military and they have to donate their sons and daughters to it besides. With the military spending more every year than all the States spend on everything else you know that money is coming from somewhere--and it's coming from taxes on the people.

 

[Mare Tranquillity]

Unless they are an unborn child, then you should have the right to kill them.

Can I quote you on that? I meant unborn, that's why I used the term "fetus".

 

[GenSeneca]

You should read my posts before responding to them. Rights DO compete.

Perhaps you should read mine: Rights are freedoms of action that do not impose obligation on others. Nowhere in that sentence is a mention of competition.

Or are you saying that if there are competing rights, that they are not "rights"? What would it be then?

Collective "rights" are not rights, they are anti-rights, they violate the rights of others in order to be fulfilled. A "right" to health care is a claim to have a "right" to the products and/or services of another individual, which violates the rights of the individual who is held responsible for fulfilling the "right".

 

[Pandora]

I don't know if what you say is true. I don't know anyone who has gotten an 18% raise. Of course there is a lot of waste, there always is because it's the nature of the beast. Can you point to any public or private institution where there isn't rampant waste? Once you get larger than 100 people I don't think you can find one. But our kids still need an education.

I know its true, it has to be desclosed. We are only talking about a hand full of people who got such a high raise but there it is. Usually they get a 8 or 10 percent, not sure why it was more this time around.

I know with private sector people there is a bottom line, bottom dollar and when there is waste they do attempt to correct it or someones head rolls. In the public sector there is no bottom line, as long as there is a tax payer to bleed and there is no insentive to stop waste except if they are exposed by to the public for waste, then they do a short term crack down.

We used to have problems with the name of our school district on our vans and trucks and the public would see one of our workers sleeping in his van or goofing off for 2 hours in a pizza place or some other establishment, so they fixed that quickly. Painted all the vans white with no logo of our school district! A private company would have fired them all. ( a non union private company)

 

[GenSeneca]

We know our system works and has worked for nearly one hundred years.

Mounting deficits topping one trillion dollars per year, a national debt of almost 14 trillion dollars, unfunded liabilities of more than 100 trillion dollars...

The system isnt' working, it's slowly collapsing on itself. The violation of rights is not practical, it is not ethical, moral or just.

It is only a matter of time before the whole thing explodes.

 

[GenSeneca]

Can I quote you on that? I meant unborn, that's why I used the term "fetus".

You may quote me as saying, "I was misquoted".

Before you try the same thing that Zen tried...

You left your statement incomplete:

the right to have acces to the things that will allow them to continue living....

....Unless they are an unborn child, then you should have the right to kill them.

I finished your sentence because I know that is your position.

 

[Mare Tranquillity]

You may quote me as saying, "I was misquoted".

Before you try the same thing that Zen tried...

You left your statement incomplete:

the right to have acces to the things that will allow them to continue living....

....Unless they are an unborn child, then you should have the right to kill them.

I finished your sentence because I know that is your position.

No it isn't but if you want to say so, then I give you permission to do so.

Personally, I don't think abortion is a good idea, but I also have a problem interfering with a woman's control over her own body. There is no such issue with men and I don't think men should have the right to pass laws on such a personal woman's issue. I don't know how it should be settled, but I think is should be decided by women.

 

[Mare Tranquillity]

GenSeca,
You said that you thought that Gandhi's methods were acceptable, but he used force, the force of the people to push the British out of India, he nationalized their holdings and the people were given their land. He reversed the process of wealth accumulation that the British had instituted and gave back the money/wealth to the people. I think that's a reasonable action, don't you?

 

[citizenzen]

Mounting deficits topping one trillion dollars per year, a national debt of almost 14 trillion dollars, unfunded liabilities of more than 100 trillion dollars...

You forget that "unfunded liabilities" is a conservative scare tactic.

Your home that you eventually paid off was an unfunded liability... yet look at how well that worked out for you.

Nice little graphic though... scary! Socialism... it will KILL YOU!!!

 

[GenSeneca]

But we pay into it for that redistribution

How does that make it something other than a redistribution of wealth?

They get a pittance back from the military and they have to donate their sons and daughters to it besides.

Ask some of the Veterans here who have come from a poor family, or those who have relatives who have served, or are currently serving, in the military if they share your visceral hatred for our armed forces.

With the military spending more every year than all the States spend on everything else

Did Micheal Moore tell you that? I'd like to see a source for that claim.

you know that money is coming from somewhere--and it's coming from taxes on the people.

About 50% of Americans don't pay federal taxes. The top 25% of taxpayers cover more than 86% of the total taxbill.

 

[GenSeneca]

You forget that "unfunded liabilities" is a conservative scare tactic.

That's what the people like you who would have everyone believe. It is money we have promised, which we don't have, and when the bills come due, we will be behind the eight ball.

Your home that you eventually paid off was an unfunded liability... yet look at how well that worked out for you.

Had I gone the route of our government and simply continued to rack up unsustainable debt, it would have turned out very differently.

I noticed that once again you didn't try to defend your position, you just attacked mine. How's that working out for you?

 

[citizenzen]

The top 25% of taxpayers cover more than 86% of the total taxbill.

Well, that just makes sense. From DailyPaul.com...

US wealth distribution: 10% of US citizens own 70.9% of all US assets

Top 1% own 38.1%
Top 96-99% own 21.3%
Top 90-95% own 11.5%

And it gets much uglier as you proceed downward.

Bottom 40% of population has 0.2% of all wealth.​

You quoted your mom earlier in the thread. It seems she was fond of old sayings. Did she ever tell you this one: You can't get blood out of a turnip?

 

[dogtowner]

It wasn't designed that way, it was corrupted by greedy people in government who wanted to use the money. That isn't the fault of all those people who paid into it under the law and want to get what the government promised them.

actually it was designed that way but it was not sold that way by FDR.

the government used it to buy votes by opening it up at full benefit to those who would only have qualified for partial prorated benefits.

and it may surprise you to know that the government did not codify FR's promise into law. He knew this of course and signed the bill anyway because he knew he was lying through his teeth.