Obamaconomy!!!

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Pidgey said:
It's just absolutely terrible that the current administration (including CONgress) is rewarding all those fatcats on Wall Street but isn't doing a flippin' thing for any of us peons:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/20/opinion/20herbert.html?em
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Well that source got so many of the basic facts wrong it is laughable.

Yes money has been going out in the form of bailouts and it should not have happened But money has also been going out to others in many ways - one of them being money to social security recipients. So yes the peons are getting their bribes too.

But no one should be getting bribes. Washington thinks that if it gives enough people some of the money it took from other people they will vote the politicians back in office again. But it has gotten to the point where so many people are getting money that I fail to see how people don't get that it is no longer coming from someone else. Washington is giving you your own money back. And the sickest part of it is that for every dollar that goes to Washington only 91 cents comes back. The real fat-cats are the ones who are keeping 9% of your money as a bonus for giving it back to you.
 
Mr. Shaman said:
You're forgetting that CEO$ & $tockholder$ (all-of-a-sudden) have some Divine Right to GORGE themselves on the cash that was supposed to be REINVE$TED in our economy!!!!!!​
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We're on the same side on this issue, Mr. Shaman--always were. Now... how do you suppose that it is that they (those same fatcats) were able to obtain that? SURELY... CONgress could have written the legislation better? They can't all be that stupid could they? Or... maybe they're just complicit?
 
Pidgey said:
We're on the same side on this issue, Mr. Shaman--always were. Now... how do you suppose that it is that they (those same fatcats) were able to obtain that? SURELY... CONgress could have written the legislation better? They can't all be that stupid could they? Or... maybe they're just complicit?
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....But, we couldn't possibly need government-regulation/oversight, right??

Where's the consistancy?​
 
Mr. Shaman said:
....But, we couldn't possibly need government-regulation/oversight, right??

Where's the consistancy?​
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Honestly, I wish I had a good answer for you. They certainly shouldn't have repealed Glass-Steagall and a bunch of other stuff, but The Fed kinda' took on powers that it didn't have the right to take on. There has been a lot written regarding the lack of "or else" clauses in a lot of the legislation regarding what the banks (and central banks) could and couldn't do. Should and shouldn't do. After all... what good is it if you have a law that says that you can't do something but doesn't say anything about anything being done to you if you go ahead and break it?

Frankly, an awful lot of that stuff is very difficult to understand given the nature of "high finance". It has its own language and everything and neither you or I are going to "get it" without one heckuva' lot of study. It probably doesn't make sense to folks like us because it's based on a very complex con game...

I'd love to see A LOT of regulation put back in but it's a pretty big question what our economy would have been like if it hadn't been slowly stripped out in the first place. Personally, I think the booms following the Carter era would never have occurred or would have been so much smaller that they might have gone unnoticed. We've been living largely on "false economy" for several decades now, I'm surprised that it's lasted this long.

And I'd REALLY like to see an awful lot of prosecution of a lot of Ken Lay-clones in the financial world for fraudulent activities. There seem to be a lot of laws with serious "or-else's" that WERE broken by specific individuals and companies for which a guilty verdict would be assured IF ONLY... the AGs would prosecute. It says A LOT about "the system" and its rampant corruption that they're not.
 
Pidgey said:
Frankly, an awful lot of that stuff is very difficult to understand given the nature of "high finance".
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BINGO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That was THE major-problem I had with The Bush Admin....that they'd convinced their "fans" that there were easy-answers for EVERY-problem!!!

Now....we've got Tea-Baggers, Dead-O-Heads, Freepers, Deathers & Oathers that STILL buy-into that concept!!!!

:mad:​
 
It's getting bad out there, yet the Obama Administration is still spreading that recovery lie and bragging about their role in this fake recovery!

Do you really believe unemployment under Obama is only 9.8%?

Come on man, Obama is lying to us!
How do you like this CHANGE!
 
Mr. Shaman said:
BINGO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That was THE major-problem I had with The Bush Admin....that they'd convinced their "fans" that there were easy-answers for EVERY-problem!!!

Now....we've got Tea-Baggers, Dead-O-Heads, Freepers, Deathers & Oathers that STILL buy-into that concept!!!!

:mad:​
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Oh, I think it goes back a lot further than that and is much, much deeper. I cannot say that I truly believe that all politicians are, or start out, bad... but it comes pretty close to that. I do believe, however, that there are a lot of folks behind the scenes (that we didn't elect) that don't have our best interests at heart (obviously) and it's those folks who end up owning the politicians regardless of party affiliation.

I've recently begun to think that our two parties mostly fulfill the "Divide et Impera" (Divide and Conquer) strategy. That is, we get to chewing on each other like a couple of dogs at each others' throats, completely distracted while we're being robbed blind. I don't think that all representatives and senators are completely cognizant of the things that get done that cause us this damage, though, and as such, a lot of them are probably just dupes and that applies to folks on either side of the aisle.

I guess the $64,000 question is HOW MUCH money has gotten siphoned off (stolen) from us? And, possibly, it's not really the money--it might be more just ownership of truly producing assets and that kind of thing. For instance, what good does it do to The Rich if, in their greedy scramble to get all the money (or just too much of it), they end up completely crashing the system and the value of the money that they're holding is destroyed? SURELY... they're smarter than that...

...and if that's the case, then what IS their Master Plan? Right now, it's not a'lookin' too good for us. Of course, I'm convinced that Peak Oil is real and that it's going to cause some pretty substantial changes to our lives that there's no way that we can completely avoid. I don't mind using less energy--I'm already heading as green as I can get. And I don't mind and would advocate greener energy sources and strategies for those who can afford it. But mulling over quite a bit of data and engineering... well... I just know for a fact that we're in for some real trouble, that's all.
 
Pidgey said:
But mulling over quite a bit of data and engineering... well... I just know for a fact that we're in for some real trouble, that's all.
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....But, you're gonna keep that FACT to yourself, huh?

:rolleyes:

The only FACT I'm aware-of is the "conservative" mind-set, that....unless there's a 100% GUARANTEE that any "moves" will be (personally) succe$$ful & profitable....they're not showin'-up!!!!!

This Country was BUILT by ri$k-taker$....and, "conservatives" are the present-day aberation (of what's AMERICAN) that's holding-us-back!​
 
Mr. Shaman said:
....But, you're gonna keep that FACT to yourself, huh?

:rolleyes:

The only FACT I'm aware-of is the "conservative" mind-set, that....unless there's a 100% GUARANTEE that any "moves" will be (personally) succe$$ful & profitable....they're not showin'-up!!!!!

This Country was BUILT by ri$k-taker$....and, "conservatives" are the present-day aberation (of what's AMERICAN) that's holding-us-back!​
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Well, no, I don't think I've kept my doomer-ish attitude to myself at all and I don't think anybody on the forum here would dispute that. My attitudes and answers DO arise from a practical-world basis though.

The statistical balance between the conservative mindset and the progressive one is about 50-50. That doesn't necessarily translate to voting preference but it comes fairly close. Progressives in other countries have in times past led movements that ultimately doomed them while conservatives have stunted the growth of others. That's historical record and fact.

In a world of finite resources, we cannot progress forever. So, I suppose it comes down to what the best estimates of those resources are and then an identification of the "critical paths". For instance, if our agriculture relies heavily (and it does) on the use of commercially mined phosphorus and there is a serious limit to the available quantity of the resource (in a commercially-viable form), then agricultural output WILL decline when that production peaks. That's an absolute, it can't be argued with. The disconcerting part, obviously, is what happens if that occurs--our population would have to decrease in step with the availability of the resource. As it happens, this IS a problem that's not too far down the road.

It kinda' takes both personalities to "make the world go 'round" so I don't see the use in picking one side and sniping at them to no end. Corruption exists in spades on both sides. Take Madoff, for example... staunch Democrat supporter. Have you heard the latest:

http://rawstory.com/news/afp/Madoff_s_office_had_wild_sex_drug_p_10212009.html
 
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Walmart and Ebay forsee a disappointing Christmas season.

I believe Obama is gonna deliver coal
in many stockings this Christmas!

It's called CHANGE!
 
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