Obama wants to legitimize the 20 million illegal aliens - do you agree?

[Dr.Who]

Citation?

In response for your request about the percent of illegals who overstay versus sneak accross the border:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5485917

"Many immigrants who are in the United States illegally never jumped a fence, hiked through the desert or paid anyone to help them sneak into the country. According to a recent study, 45 percent of illegal immigrants came here on a legal visa, and then overstayed that visa. "

 

[Dr.Who]

Hard for me to understand why any place else should be different.

Regarding the question of illegals paying taxes:

"The fact that illegal immigrants pay taxes at all will come as news to many Americans. A stunning two-thirds of illegal immigrants pay Medicare, Social Security and personal income taxes.

One might have imagined that those fearing deportation or confronting the prospect of paying for their safety net through their own meager wages would take a pass on the IRS' scheme. Not so. Close to 8 million of the 12 million or so illegal aliens in the country today file personal income taxes using these numbers, contributing billions to federal coffers.

What's more, aliens who are not self-employed have Social Security and Medicare taxes automatically withheld from their paychecks. Since undocumented workers have only fake numbers, they'll never be able to collect the benefits these taxes are meant to pay for. Last year, the revenues from these fake numbers — that the Social Security administration stashes in the “earnings suspense file” — added up to 10 percent of the Social Security surplus. The file is growing, on average, by more than $50 billion a year."

http://www.reason.org/commentaries/dalmia_20060501.shtml

 

[Libsmasher]

In response for your request about the percent of illegals who overstay versus sneak accross the border:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5485917

"Many immigrants who are in the United States illegally never jumped a fence, hiked through the desert or paid anyone to help them sneak into the country. According to a recent study, 45 percent of illegal immigrants came here on a legal visa, and then overstayed that visa. "

The article doesn't give a link to the study, or it's authors.

 

[Libsmasher]

Regarding the question of illegals paying taxes:

"The fact that illegal immigrants pay taxes at all will come as news to many Americans. A stunning two-thirds of illegal immigrants pay Medicare, Social Security and personal income taxes.

One might have imagined that those fearing deportation or confronting the prospect of paying for their safety net through their own meager wages would take a pass on the IRS' scheme. Not so. Close to 8 million of the 12 million or so illegal aliens in the country today file personal income taxes using these numbers, contributing billions to federal coffers.

What's more, aliens who are not self-employed have Social Security and Medicare taxes automatically withheld from their paychecks. Since undocumented workers have only fake numbers, they'll never be able to collect the benefits these taxes are meant to pay for. Last year, the revenues from these fake numbers — that the Social Security administration stashes in the “earnings suspense file” — added up to 10 percent of the Social Security surplus. The file is growing, on average, by more than $50 billion a year."

http://www.reason.org/commentaries/dalmia_20060501.shtml

I'm sorry, but I don't accept the Urban Institute, an organization loaded with libs on its board of directors, and funded by liberal foundations, as an impartial credible source. How can they possibly know how many illegals don't pay taxes? Or for that matter, how many do? The article cited is also full of misleading stuff. Example:

In reality, the 1996 welfare reform bill disqualified illegal immigrants from nearly all means-tested government programs including food stamps, housing assistance, Medicaid and Medicare-funded hospitalization. The only services that illegals can still get are emergency medical care and K-12 education.

That the federal government has done this has nothing to do with what the states have done. Eg, The California State University system admits illegals as a matter of course, and even charges them in-state tuition rates - they pay far less than US citizens from other states. Also, anyone who lives in California would laugh at the medicaid prohibition comment - illegals go to the emergency room for all their medical needs that aren't emergencies, and state law requires them to be treated. They don't pay, and their bills are cost-shifted to paying US patients, or eaten by the hospital. A number of trauma centers in LA have been bankrupted from this and closed, causing longer rides to a hospital trauma center for US citizens suffereing REAL emergencies. I'll never forget the time I went to a local trauma center, doubled up with gastroenteritis, and had to wait behind two perfectly healthy-looking illegal alien women - there for pre-natal checkups for their anchor baby pregnancies.

 

[Andy]

I have to agree with Libmasher here. Most of the illegal I know pay very little if any federal income tax. Most work at immigrant owned businesses, where the legal immigrant provides jobs for illegals. It is clean and all cash.

Further, it is amazing how much services they get. As far as federal government cutting back on their money hand outs, I simply do not buy it. Feds always say they are going to be frugal, yet every year the documented blowing of millions to billions comes out in fraud and 'lost' money.

Besides that, a manager at my company was transfered from CA to where I live, and detailed how he always checked who was behind him when driving in CA because illegals would pack into autos and fake auto accident and pretend to have neck injuries, and sue the people they rammed, or caused to run into them. Their favorite target was city buss, because suing the city is oddly easy.

So there is an issue here, no matter how much or little they pay in taxes.

 

[Dr.Who]

California seems to be more extreme than the rest of the nation in regards to illegal immigrants. No suprise there. I part because Cal is so liberal that they are pretty messed up and in part becaus Ca uses more labor for picking fruits and vegetables and that is precisely the industry that is abusing the system the most.

Take the sources I put up or not. You can always go and get other sources if you like. But whether or not you accept them it does not change the fact that most illegal immigrants pay taxes using fake or someone elses social security number. If we were on a thread arguing the need for better ways to check the identity of illegals would you then be taking the positions that most of them use fake ID?

The way I see it the percentge that are doing one or the other doesn't matter. Faking their ID or not paying taxes are both intolerable.

 

[PLC1]

Reading through the above posts could lead one to believe that illegal immigration is something that liberals want to defend, while conservatives are the ones who are for securing the border.

Is that how the issue is seen?

 

[jff.law]

I agree that illegals are causing all kinds of financial problems in most all the border states, and that Mexico has now opened a consulate in Minnesota. The business community wants them here, and they have a larger influence on lawmakers then voters do. Employers all around the country are requiring bi lingual speakers for jobs, because illegals wont learn to speak English. Its out of control. Government estimates say 12 million, its sure to be twice that many. I have also seen estimates of 1 million for Houston Tx alone, and it seems to be more then that here.

One idea floating around is to arrest them, and keep them in jail for a year, with the Sheriffs renting them out for work during that time, then deport all of them. I agree they need to be returned to their countries, cut this could pay for that passage.

 

[asur]

Because the average immigrant has few years of schooling, their incomes are low. Consequently they are eligible for many (federally mandated) state government services, but pay little in taxes. Specifically, the average illegal immigrant receives eight to twelve dollars in services for every dollar they pay in taxes, roughly twice the disparity found in 1994.


So who will be paying the taxes to support the wave of illegals that Obama welcomes.
And how can Obama say they won't raise taxes.

Lies, lies and more lies.

Obama, likes sticking his nose up at poor white folk, so I guess he'll tax em.

 

[PLC1]

Because the average immigrant has few years of schooling, their incomes are low. Consequently they are eligible for many (federally mandated) state government services, but pay little in taxes. Specifically, the average illegal immigrant receives eight to twelve dollars in services for every dollar they pay in taxes, roughly twice the disparity found in 1994.


So who will be paying the taxes to support the wave of illegals that Obama welcomes.
And how can Obama say they won't raise taxes.

Lies, lies and more lies.

Obama, likes sticking his nose up at poor white folk, so I guess he'll tax em.

If the election comes down to Obama vs. McCain, which seems likely at this point, who are you going to vote for:

The one who says he is for amnesty for illegals, or

The one who tried to pass an amnesty bill already?

The two parties are Tweedledum and Tweedledee on the issue of illegal immigration.

Better write your congressman.

 

[Octoldit]

It was Hillary that did well in the state with the most problems stemming from Illegal immigrants. They voted for Hillary because they know her position on allowing illegals immigrants into this country.

You have your question all backward, you are trying to shift the focus away from Hillaries corporate walmart backround. illegals know her position on cheap labor, and she has the corporate globalist background to verify her true un-American postion. She is a traitor pure and simple.

Hillary can be trusted to go against the American Constitution and the people of America due to her "greed" and "lobbist" ties that she cannot escape from.




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efJzL_jz15A


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4IQAaxK636U

 

[PLC1]

It was Hillary that did well in the state with the most problems stemming from Illegal immigrants. They voted for Hillary because they know her position on allowing illegals immigrants into this country.

You have your question all backward, you are trying to shift the focus away from Hillaries corporate walmart backround. illegals know her position on cheap labor, and she has the corporate globalist background to verify her true un-American postion. She is a traitor pure and simple.

Hillary can be trusted to go against the American Constitution and the people of America due to her "greed" and "lobbist" ties that she cannot escape from.




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efJzL_jz15A


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4IQAaxK636U

So, which of the three do you trust to secure the borders?

 

[Jarlaxle]

None of them. There isn't a dime's worth of difference between Moe, Larry, or Curly.

 

[Libsmasher]

None of them. There isn't a dime's worth of difference between Moe, Larry, or Curly.

Agreed.

 

[KingClovis]

Nervous

I prefer Obama to Hillary (I'm a Republican), but I must admit, much of the Black Liberation Theology and political commentary surrounding the man scares me. I sense strong, yet momentarily submerged, sentiments of White-hatred in them.