No chickenhawk screech?

[Vietvet]

like you could beat a pen knife

!

 

[Vietvet]

Hi mate!



I have the luxury of being an impartial by-stander.........

try me..... I think I could hold my own!


Humph... I think you are over simplifying the case somewhat to try and score political points - I realise that drawing up partisan battlelines is the norm in an election year but take a step back and look at the legislation. Take the levels of benefits provided to the squaddies in total not just as a single package presented here and equate them to the aspirational levels of most "average" American families!

For example - do you think that the qualification of 3 years service merits such a financial commitment on behalf of the American people that they themselves cannot afford for their own kids without years of saving?

Do you think the timing of this legislation has something to do with electioneering perhaps? Why not put a piece of Democrat sponsored legislation forward to the House that legislates from the time a soldier gets de-mobbed he is housed, fed, beered and looked after for the rest of his life by the Government...anyone that says no...well "he wants to make sure that the military doesn't offer our troops TOO much, because we need to keep them in uniform." as you say!

The same thing is going to start happening in the UK, the Forces are going to be used as a political punchbag in order to score cheap election points. Then when the election is over the politicians will forget about the soldiers until the next election when the promising and vote courting can start all over again! Its all bollox in reality!

Hey Scot what's up?

Actually, I can see that you've got some valid opinions, so let's just establish that from the get-go. However, there might be some things that you aren't aware of going on over here in the states regarding the benign neglect of our vets. This goes far beyond just a lack of eduacational benefits, which have, until Bushco took over, always been a recruiting tool in order to fill the military ranks. Even the draftees used to get the same benefits. WWll vets, including many Senators and Congressmen, used the GI Bill to get educations that they never would have been able to afford otherwise. The Webb/Hagel legislation merely re-establishes parity with that original GI Bill.Bush has been screwing the vets ever since he took office.

It's not just educational benefits, that's the tip of the iceberg. We have vets being discharged who have PTSD, whose papers are changed to read "personality disorder." Guess what, they do that in order to keep the VA from being responsible for treating them.Also, to keep them from receiving disability payments, which they deserve. Vets have to wait for months, sometimes years, to receive treatment for their service connected disabilities, because the VA is underfunded. Many military and VA facilities are falling, or have fallen, into disrepair. Walter Reed Army hospital in DC is a prime example. I could cite many individual examples of how our vets are being jerked around.They go to combat and come back crippled or maimed, physically and mentally, and are promptly thrown under the bus. It's disgraceful, and as a vet myself, I find it disgusting and unacceptable. My wife is an RN working at the local VA hospital here, and I hear the "horror stories" all the time. It's a national disgrace, and it's not "political posturing" as you might think, it's reality.

Maybe you can enlighten me as to how they are treating combat vets in the UK. I would think that since you have a national health care system, that wouldn't be an issue there? What sort of educational benfits do they get?

 

[Bunz]

AK Senator Stevens(Who was a beneficiary of the GI Bill and served in WWII) was in Alaska over the Memorial Day weekend and had in tow with him VA Secretary James Speake. They flew in a small convoy of Blackhawks out to a village near me on the west coast of Alaska. It was one of the villages where the national guard members was deployed from. My town of 2500 had 11-12 deployed. Either way, here is an interesting clip from the story about the visit.

The guardsmen came back home in October. There are seven of them in Quinhagak, a village the locals figured at about 700 people. Some, like Tikiun, are still employed by the guard. Others are collecting unemployment but have summer jobs lined up.

Tikiun said it's difficult in the village to take advantage of available veterans' benefits; dental and physical exams often require going to Anchorage, he said.

A Vietnam veteran in Bethel, John Guinn, told Stevens and Peake he was worried about what's going to happen to the village soldiers back from the Middle East.

He said everyone is proud of them now. But what happens in a few years when these men, highly trained in combat, can't find jobs, start drinking and going a little crazy, he asked. There aren't people in tiny villages trained to deal with mental health issues, he said.

"It's going to cause a commotion in their village," Guinn said. "I'm scared."

Stevens said there is good job training available for veterans. "The question is whether they are encouraged by their comrades and by their families to take advantage of their opportunities," Stevens said.

VA secretary Peake suggested some of the concern about post-traumatic stress disorder and traumatic brain injury has been overblown.

Many of the brain injuries are serious but some of them are akin to what anyone who played football in their youth might have suffered, Peake told Guinn.

Guinn wasn't entirely satisfied with the answers. He said it's a real issue for returning soldiers as well as their families, and he doesn't think job training is enough.

http://www.adn.com/2697/story/417899.html

This comes largely on the heels of having some tragic incidents of suicide among rural Alaskans after thier deployments. Also the 172nd brig/25th Division based in Alaska took considerable casualties in thier last deployment in 2007 and will be heading back this fall. I was appalled the VA secretary would make that statement in a public setting.

The bottom line is that McCain/Bush are flat out wrong to treat the Vets in this manner. I would understand if this was peacetime, but we are asking our enlistees to stay in longer, face danger through multiple deployments. My understanding is that during past wars, specifically WWII, Korea and Vietnam, these benefits would be extended to them.

 

[Vietvet]

AK Senator Stevens(Who was a beneficiary of the GI Bill and served in WWII) was in Alaska over the Memorial Day weekend and had in tow with him VA Secretary James Speake. They flew in a small convoy of Blackhawks out to a village near me on the west coast of Alaska. It was one of the villages where the national guard members was deployed from. My town of 2500 had 11-12 deployed. Either way, here is an interesting clip from the story about the visit.

http://www.adn.com/2697/story/417899.html

This comes largely on the heels of having some tragic incidents of suicide among rural Alaskans after thier deployments. Also the 172nd brig/25th Division based in Alaska took considerable casualties in thier last deployment in 2007 and will be heading back this fall. I was appalled the VA secretary would make that statement in a public setting.

The bottom line is that McCain/Bush are flat out wrong to treat the Vets in this manner. I would understand if this was peacetime, but we are asking our enlistees to stay in longer, face danger through multiple deployments. My understanding is that during past wars, specifically WWII, Korea and Vietnam, these benefits would be extended to them.

Your post really helps to shine further light on what is increasingly inexcuseable neglect of our vets. The RW mantra is "we support our troops." Right...If they supported our troops, they wouldn't forget about them as soon as they get home and are discharged. The RW complains about the two billion dollar price tag on the Web/Hagel legislation, yet has no problem with the two billion bucks a WEEK, that we continue to throw down that rathole that is Iraq. It makes absolutely no sense, and, again, It's a national disgrace.

 

[Vietvet]

Hey Scot what's up?

Actually, I can see that you've got some valid opinions, so let's just establish that from the get-go. However, there might be some things that you aren't aware of going on over here in the states regarding the benign neglect of our vets. This goes far beyond just a lack of eduacational benefits, which have, until Bushco took over, always been a recruiting tool in order to fill the military ranks. Even the draftees used to get the same benefits. WWll vets, including many Senators and Congressmen, used the GI Bill to get educations that they never would have been able to afford otherwise. The Webb/Hagel legislation merely re-establishes parity with that original GI Bill.Bush has been screwing the vets ever since he took office.

It's not just educational benefits, that's the tip of the iceberg. We have vets being discharged who have PTSD, whose papers are changed to read "personality disorder." Guess what, they do that in order to keep the VA from being responsible for treating them.Also, to keep them from receiving disability payments, which they deserve. Vets have to wait for months, sometimes years, to receive treatment for their service connected disabilities, because the VA is underfunded. Many military and VA facilities are falling, or have fallen, into disrepair. Walter Reed Army hospital in DC is a prime example. I could cite many individual examples of how our vets are being jerked around.They go to combat and come back crippled or maimed, physically and mentally, and are promptly thrown under the bus. It's disgraceful, and as a vet myself, I find it disgusting and unacceptable. My wife is an RN working at the local VA hospital here, and I hear the "horror stories" all the time. It's a national disgrace, and it's not "political posturing" as you might think, it's reality.

Maybe you can enlighten me as to how they are treating combat vets in the UK. I would think that since you have a national health care system, that wouldn't be an issue there? What sort of educational benfits do they get?

Here is an article about the reluctance on the part of the VA to diagnose PTSD...
http://www.votevets.org/news/?id=0132

 

[Libsmasher]

Hey Scot what's up?

Actually, I can see that you've got some valid opinions, so let's just establish that from the get-go. However, there might be some things that you aren't aware of going on over here in the states regarding the benign neglect of our vets. This goes far beyond just a lack of eduacational benefits, which have, until Bushco took over, always been a recruiting tool in order to fill the military ranks. Even the draftees used to get the same benefits. WWll vets, including many Senators and Congressmen, used the GI Bill to get educations that they never would have been able to afford otherwise. The Webb/Hagel legislation merely re-establishes parity with that original GI Bill.Bush has been screwing the vets ever since he took office.

It's not just educational benefits, that's the tip of the iceberg. We have vets being discharged who have PTSD, whose papers are changed to read "personality disorder." Guess what, they do that in order to keep the VA from being responsible for treating them.Also, to keep them from receiving disability payments, which they deserve. Vets have to wait for months, sometimes years, to receive treatment for their service connected disabilities, because the VA is underfunded. Many military and VA facilities are falling, or have fallen, into disrepair. Walter Reed Army hospital in DC is a prime example. I could cite many individual examples of how our vets are being jerked around.They go to combat and come back crippled or maimed, physically and mentally, and are promptly thrown under the bus. It's disgraceful, and as a vet myself, I find it disgusting and unacceptable. My wife is an RN working at the local VA hospital here, and I hear the "horror stories" all the time. It's a national disgrace, and it's not "political posturing" as you might think, it's reality.

Maybe you can enlighten me as to how they are treating combat vets in the UK. I would think that since you have a national health care system, that wouldn't be an issue there? What sort of educational benfits do they get?

Scotsman, if you have actually read the above, let me tell you that it is a lie. Military men have had education benefits the whole time Bush was president, as well as other benefits. You can check some of the existing benefits here:

http://www.gibill.va.gov/

Vets receive other benefits as well - in tests for employment for government jobs, vets get big amounts of points added to their tests. The reason the appeasers are all for the latest bill for GI benefits, is because it's constructed in such a way as to deplete the armed forces of men - it's just another way they are trying to stop the war by indirect means.

 

[Vietvet]

Scotsman, if you have actually read the above, let me tell you that it is a lie. Military men have had education benefits the whole time Bush was president, as well as other benefits. You can check some of the existing benefits here:

http://www.gibill.va.gov/

Vets receive other benefits as well - in tests for employment for government jobs, vets get big amounts of points added to their tests. The reason the appeasers are all for the latest bill for GI benefits, is because it's constructed in such a way as to deplete the armed forces of men - it's just another way they are trying to stop the war by indirect means.

Yet another ridiculous post. What's the matter, are you worried about the draft being reinstated? Don't worry, you can be like Lush Limpbaugh, and just say you've got an "anal cyst" or something..Or, if you have connections, like
Cheney did, you can wrangle up to five deferrments..Or if you've got a powerful "pa", like W, you can make sure you get "stateside" duty.

Or, you COULD "man up", and get your butt down to the recruiting station so that you can fight in a war that you so obviously and adamantly support.

But I'm sure you won't.See, that's why you guys are called "chickenhawks." Are you starting to "get it" yet?

 

[Libsmasher]

Yet another ridiculous post. What's the matter, are you worried about the draft being reinstated? Don't worry, you can be like Lush Limpbaugh, and just say you've got an "anal cyst" or something..Or, if you have connections, like
Cheney did, you can wrangle up to five deferrments..Or if you've got a powerful "pa", like W, you can make sure you get "stateside" duty.

Or, you COULD "man up", and get your butt down to the recruiting station so that you can fight in a war that you so obviously and adamantly support.

But I'm sure you won't.See, that's why you guys are called "chickenhawks." Are you starting to "get it" yet?

Do you have the balls to EVER actually try to REBUT a post?

 

[Vietvet]

Do you have the balls to EVER actually try to REBUT a post?

Well,BOY, I had the balls to enlist in the Army and go to a combat zone...And you have the balls to..post on a forum?

Wow, I'm impressed.

So, when are you planning on enlisting yourself, again?

 

[top gun]

Well,BOY, I had the balls to enlist in the Army and go to a combat zone...And you have the balls to..post on a forum?

Wow, I'm impressed.

So, when are you planning on enlisting yourself, again?

Just what are you trying to say here vet??? Everybody TALKS a good fight!!!

 

[The Scotsman]

Hey Scot what's up?

Hi Vet! - I guess I don't like the military being used as fodder in electioneering. As I said what's the point of this legislation and why is it coming up now and why is it sponsored by the Democrats who have a weakness when it comes to military matter? Ya see what I mean? Its electioneering and it sucks

Don't get me wrong Vet its a great bit of legislation for the troops but would'nt it be better to spend the money on something more worthwhile like the VA, as you say that's where the money is needed not on the further education of some cook private after 3 years service! That's my point, the utilisation of scarce resoureces in the best possible way - not because you can score cheap political capital out of a headline!

Its great electioneering to have your picture taken with vets collecting their degrees..all blue eyes, big smiles, caps and gowns! Its a lot less glamours to an electioneering politician to say that he provided more money to Veterans medical assistance (which he should do anyway!!) and get his pictures in the press with guys holding their cathaters draining bodily fluids because their innerds were whacked to hell from an IED or had their faces burned off from having had petrol thrown over them when out on patrol.

Nah politicians should leave the squaddies out of their crappy little elections.

Maybe you can enlighten me as to how they are treating combat vets in the UK. I would think that since you have a national health care system, that wouldn't be an issue there? What sort of educational benfits do they get?

Education benefits....you must be joking man!! we get F**K ALL benefits.

As for medical treament trust me Vet the assistance our guys get would make you laugh and then cry....and cry....and keep crying.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ng-historic-duty-care-frontline-soldiers.html

Just one of thousands of articles you could read...it sucks

 

[Libsmasher]

Your post really helps to shine further light on what is increasingly inexcuseable neglect of our vets. The RW mantra is "we support our troops." Right...If they supported our troops, they wouldn't forget about them as soon as they get home and are discharged. The RW complains about the two billion dollar price tag on the Web/Hagel legislation, yet has no problem with the two billion bucks a WEEK, that we continue to throw down that rathole that is Iraq. It makes absolutely no sense, and, again, It's a national disgrace.

Awwww - did the nation neglect you as a vet?? Is that why you are indulging in this embarassing whimper-fest?

The issue isn't only the cost - it's that the election-year gimmick bill would decrease the ranks in the middle of two wars. Can you debate that issue? No, you can't - what you do is whimper and rant. Watch now folks - Vietshellshock is about to whimper and rant.

 

[top gun]

Awwww - did the nation neglect you as a vet?? Is that why you are indulging in this embarassing whimper-fest?

The issue isn't only the cost - it's that the election-year gimmick bill would decrease the ranks in the middle of two wars. Can you debate that issue? No, you can't - what you do is whimper and rant. Watch now folks - Vietshellshock is about to whimper and rant.

First off the fact that you're chidishly taunting a Veteran on a Vetern's issue kinda makes vietvet's point about your sides sincerity... so he wouldn't really even need to respond. The more you open your mouth the more you prove his point.

On your second "point" that's just another "don't want to spend money on Vets" smoke & mirrors argument... again.

Increasing GI benefits is something the Republicans who had a hard lock on Congress for 6 years under Bush did nothing. Now the Democrats are putting forward their legislation.

I just the other day heard the retention argument rebuffed by a former top Marine recruiter who stated that while a very small increase in leaving the service might transpire... it would also to a much greater extent increase new recruitment.

As he said, "Offering free education was the best recruiting tool we were ever able to offer!"

 

[Vietvet]

Awwww - did the nation neglect you as a vet?? Is that why you are indulging in this embarassing whimper-fest?

The issue isn't only the cost - it's that the election-year gimmick bill would decrease the ranks in the middle of two wars. Can you debate that issue? No, you can't - what you do is whimper and rant. Watch now folks - Vietshellshock is about to whimper and rant.

Listen you no-account little punk assed ***** you, I am speaking up for veterans of THIS war in Iraq, and the war in Afghanistan. I never had any problem getting the educational benefits I was entitled to, or dealing with the kinds of problems like missing limbs and other "slight" medical problems, that these guys are facing now.This isn't about me. I think they are getting the shaft, and i am standing up for them. Do you know any veterans of this war? I doubt it. You're not fit to scrape the **** off their combat boots, chickenhawk junior grade..

I'll "shellshock" YOU, you sorry assed impersonater of a useful human being.

you really ARE the village idiot, aren't you?

That's why the average garden-variety punk like you needs to get his cowardly ass down to the local recruiting station and sign up, since you "support" the Iraq war so much.Further, that is why I am for a return to the draft, precisely to give overgrown juvies a chance to make some use of themselves.You would no doubt make damned good "cannon fodder." Is that enough "rebuttal" for ya there, "butthead?" HAHAHAHAHA.,as you would so intelligently respond.. You woudn't last a week in a combat zone, BOY. You'd be whining for your mommy, like the wet-nursing pup you are.

So pups like you need to get out of the way, and let the big dogs play. BOY.

 

[Vietvet]

Hi Vet! - I guess I don't like the military being used as fodder in electioneering. As I said what's the point of this legislation and why is it coming up now and why is it sponsored by the Democrats who have a weakness when it comes to military matter? Ya see what I mean? Its electioneering and it sucks

Don't get me wrong Vet its a great bit of legislation for the troops but would'nt it be better to spend the money on something more worthwhile like the VA, as you say that's where the money is needed not on the further education of some cook private after 3 years service! That's my point, the utilisation of scarce resoureces in the best possible way - not because you can score cheap political capital out of a headline!

Its great electioneering to have your picture taken with vets collecting their degrees..all blue eyes, big smiles, caps and gowns! Its a lot less glamours to an electioneering politician to say that he provided more money to Veterans medical assistance (which he should do anyway!!) and get his pictures in the press with guys holding their cathaters draining bodily fluids because their innerds were whacked to hell from an IED or had their faces burned off from having had petrol thrown over them when out on patrol.

Nah politicians should leave the squaddies out of their crappy little elections.




Education benefits....you must be joking man!! we get F**K ALL benefits.

As for medical treament trust me Vet the assistance our guys get would make you laugh and then cry....and cry....and keep crying.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ng-historic-duty-care-frontline-soldiers.html

Just one of thousands of articles you could read...it sucks

I can see your point, but my own point is this: We are spending over two billion $$ a WEEK on this idiotic war in Iraq. We need to bring our troops home(I noticed the UK pretty much has all their troops out)NOW,and our country can spend the money on useful things, such as, #1, veteran's benefits. We also have nearly fifty million people in the US without any health care coverage. That is an issue that needs to be addressed, as is our crumbling infrastructure. The collape of a major bridge in Minneaplois should have been a wake up call, not to mention Hurricane katrina. Yet, nothing has been done. The Two Billion$$ one-time expense of the Webb/Hagel bill is a drop in the bucket, compared to all the taxpayer dollars this country is giving to crooked defense contracters like Halliburton,KBR and Blackwater, among many others.They are providing shoddy equipment and services to our troops, and lining their pockets with taxpayer $$ all the while. The latest example is a bunch of soldiers being electrocuted by faulty wiring, thanks to KBR..

That's why I don't go for all this stuff on the right about 'wasting taxpayer dollars" on programs some of them don't support. To HELL with them. I don't support this bs war in Iraq, and nobody ever asked me if I wanted MY tax dollars to go there, or have my kids and grandkids pay the tab for the balance to the Chinese. It's a strawman argument, the way I see it.Our vets deserve to be given the entitlements that they were promised when they enlisted. Instead, they are getting the shaft. I read your links, but we have a much larger problem in the US, because we have a lot more wounded veterans who are not getting proper access to adequate medical care. And they deserve the very same educational benefits that vets of past wars have gotten. Nothing more and nothing less. that's my opinion on it..