Must liberals be pro choice?

[Pandora]

you are the one who says if your pro life you are not liberal...you do read your own posts right? Thus useing logic ( you may have a hard time here) if I was to be pro life...then I am not liberal anymore...see its that simple...well to you...I actually think thats retarded...

Also lets think..every blue dog I mentioned is Pro Life? ummm dah? that was the point? I did not name...every blue dog now did I? If we where talking in person, i would be speaking very slow right now so you understand...its really not that hard here....

You know who else is "pro gun" Hunters...so does that mean now all hunters in my state are Conservative? Or do they all need to turn in there liberal card? For that matter...I supported Conceal and Carry in my state...Do I need to turn in mine as well?

I never said people who are pro life are not a liberal. and yes I read my own posts but you apparently have not.

I was even very specific with you.

I said Rudy Rudy Giuliani was fiscal conservative and social liberal. He is for abortions of any type including up to the 9th month.

I gave lots more examples of socially conservative people who are fiscally liberal like many christians who like social programs for the poor

I think this thread is talking about Liberals. Not liberals in some areas, just plain ordinary liberals.


You still have not named one plain ordinary liberal but that is ok, I thought of one for you.

Ed Shultz. He is as liberal as one can get but not for abortion and though he believes in some kinds of gun control he is for the right to have guns for hunting. That isn't really what the second amendment was talking about but its a start

so I found one for you, he isn't in government but he is a good enough example. Have you ever listened to his show? Liberals call in every so often picking fights with him that he is for the right to life and how its not right that he isn't for a woman's right to choose blah blah and he defends himself saying that I am with you on every other issue can't you just let me have this one thing, its not like I am promoting it or anything.

So we found our liberal who is for the right to life, they do exist after all Rare as they are, there are some.

 

[Gipper]

I never said people who are pro life are not a liberal. and yes I read my own posts but you apparently have not.

I was even very specific with you.

I said Rudy Rudy Giuliani was fiscal conservative and social liberal. He is for abortions of any type including up to the 9th month.

I gave lots more examples of socially conservative people who are fiscally liberal like many christians who like social programs for the poor

I think this thread is talking about Liberals. Not liberals in some areas, just plain ordinary liberals.


You still have not named one plain ordinary liberal but that is ok, I thought of one for you.

Ed Shultz. He is as liberal as one can get but not for abortion and though he believes in some kinds of gun control he is for the right to have guns for hunting. That isn't really what the second amendment was talking about but its a start

so I found one for you, he isn't in government but he is a good enough example. Have you ever listened to his show? Liberals call in every so often picking fights with him that he is for the right to life and how its not right that he isn't for a woman's right to choose blah blah and he defends himself saying that I am with you on every other issue can't you just let me have this one thing, its not like I am promoting it or anything.

So we found our liberal who is for the right to life, they do exist after all Rare as they are, there are some.

I suspect there are many liberals who are against baby murder. My gay brother for one.

These pro-life liberals have at least half a brain. The other liberals have none...

 

[pocketfullofshells]

I never said people who are pro life are not a liberal. and yes I read my own posts but you apparently have not.

I was even very specific with you.

I said Rudy Rudy Giuliani was fiscal conservative and social liberal. He is for abortions of any type including up to the 9th month.

I gave lots more examples of socially conservative people who are fiscally liberal like many christians who like social programs for the poor

I think this thread is talking about Liberals. Not liberals in some areas, just plain ordinary liberals.


You still have not named one plain ordinary liberal but that is ok, I thought of one for you.

Ed Shultz. He is as liberal as one can get but not for abortion and though he believes in some kinds of gun control he is for the right to have guns for hunting. That isn't really what the second amendment was talking about but its a start

so I found one for you, he isn't in government but he is a good enough example. Have you ever listened to his show? Liberals call in every so often picking fights with him that he is for the right to life and how its not right that he isn't for a woman's right to choose blah blah and he defends himself saying that I am with you on every other issue can't you just let me have this one thing, its not like I am promoting it or anything.

So we found our liberal who is for the right to life, they do exist after all Rare as they are, there are some.

Pandora.."I think to be a liberal, yes you must accept abortion as a fundamental right"

you sure you read your own posts?

 

[Pandora]

Pandora.."I think to be a liberal, yes you must accept abortion as a fundamental right"

you sure you read your own posts?

Um... that is a liberal talking point, not my own talking point.

Apparently Gipper has a relative who is a lib but pro life too so, his relative and Ed Shultz, makes too, there must be more out there Its just that you have not named a single one. All you named is moderates and blue dogs but keep screeching that there are more, so ok there must be tons, they are just invisible

 

[pocketfullofshells]

Um... that is a liberal talking point, not my own talking point.

Apparently Gipper has a relative who is a lib but pro life too so, his relative and Ed Shultz, makes too, there must be more out there Its just that you have not named a single one. All you named is moderates and blue dogs but keep screeching that there are more, so ok there must be tons, they are just invisible

This is why no one can debate with you..you say something..and then later just say just becuse you said it, does not mean anything...Its not a liberal talking point..its what you said...

And I did name one, twice, one of my professors at school was very liberal and very pro life...I could also name people I know..but what good is that, you don't know them...and again I never said jack about them having to be in high office...that was not part of the question....

its sad when you can't even stand by your own statement,,,becuse it shows your wrong.

 

[Pandora]

This is why no one can debate with you..you say something..and then later just say just becuse you said it, does not mean anything...Its not a liberal talking point..its what you said...

And I did name one, twice, one of my professors at school was very liberal and very pro life...I could also name people I know..but what good is that, you don't know them...and again I never said jack about them having to be in high office...that was not part of the question....

its sad when you can't even stand by your own statement,,,becuse it shows your wrong.

You named a bunch of blue dogs and called them same as liberals.

you will go on and on that I or anyone on the right will cling to our ideas damn the facts then you yourself will hold on to blue dogs and pretend they are liberals, damn the facts

Ed Shultz is proof that a flaming liberal can be pro life, so you win the argument. it is possible to be a flaming liberal and be pro life, its just really rare. And it should be rare since its part of the liberal platform that abortion is a right

This is a really stupid argument.

 

[pocketfullofshells]

You named a bunch of blue dogs and called them same as liberals.

you will go on and on that I or anyone on the right will cling to our ideas damn the facts then you yourself will hold on to blue dogs and pretend they are liberals, damn the facts

Ed Shultz is proof that a flaming liberal can be pro life, so you win the argument. it is possible to be a flaming liberal and be pro life, its just really rare. And it should be rare since its part of the liberal platform that abortion is a right

This is a really stupid argument.

must feel even more stupid as you argue against what you yourself said...as if you did not say it...you lost before it started.

 

[Pandora]

must feel even more stupid as you argue against what you yourself said...as if you did not say it...you lost before it started.

no, but I feel stupid to letting my self get into another silly argument with you

I should have remembered Ed Shultz before I mentioned him in the post, It was dumb of me to think you would be able to name him instead of pretending blue dogs are liberals.

But between Gen's two people named and Ed Shultz we won your argument for you, so thats a good thing right

 

[pocketfullofshells]

no, but I feel stupid to letting my self get into another silly argument with you

I should have remembered Ed Shultz before I mentioned him in the post, It was dumb of me to think you would be able to name him instead of pretending blue dogs are liberals.

But between Gen's two people named and Ed Shultz we won your argument for you, so thats a good thing right

I just want to know why you can't even stand by your own words..let alone that you where wrong...It takes some talent to debate yourself take both positions and lose....

 

[Pandora]

This is why no one can debate with you..you say something..and then later just say just becuse you said it, does not mean anything...Its not a liberal talking point..its what you said...

And I did name one, twice, one of my professors at school was very liberal and very pro life...I could also name people I know..but what good is that, you don't know them...and again I never said jack about them having to be in high office...that was not part of the question....

its sad when you can't even stand by your own statement,,,becuse it shows your wrong.

You know someone in every job, hell you have done every job according to different threads. You knowing a guy doesn't seem to qualify to me

and no one said they had to be high in office, you added that your self. I asked you to name a liberal in government. We have a large government all you could name was blue dog conservative democrats and called them liberals.

im looking for my "statement" that you are talking about ill reply on that when i find it

 

[Pandora]

I know many democrats who are pro life and many who are pro abortion but I have never met a liberal in my life who is pro life.

I know many democrats who are pro choice up to 3d or 4th month but I know many democrats who are against partial birth abortion, I have only met a couple liberals who are against partial birth abortions and both of them I had to explain what it was and how it was done before they finally agreed its wrong.

I think to be a liberal, yes you must accept abortion as a fundamental right, though i do not think the same for the main stream democrat

This must be the quote you are speaking of pocket, I was confused since you didn't put in the full quote.


Yes I think to be a liberal you must accept abortion as a fundamental right. Not only because its what liberals themselves teach but because with the exception of talk show host Ed Shultz (who is attacked by liberals often for being pro life) Just because a person is a democrat does not make them a liberal. Not all democrats think abortion is a fundamental right, that is something liberals say, not democrats in general.

Every liberal I know of, including every liberal in government is not only pro abortion they wont vote for a federal judge, supreme court judge who is not also pro abortion.

Democrats and liberals are not the same thing and blue dog conservative democrats are not liberals even if you want to pretend they are. They can be in your world but in the main stream world it just isn't so.

You may know a liberal in your personal life who is liberal and pro life, it is possible.... look at Ed Shultz but the only liberals that we can both know who they are and what their record is on abortion would be public figures. So my knowing no liberals who are pro life in my personal life and your knowing one liberal who is pro life in your personal life is a mute point since it cannot be proven.

But since you and I cannot even agree on who is a liberal the argument is pointless.

Let me try to put this in a way you would understand.


Imagine the Tea Party taught that slavery was a fundamental right. Imagine that You could name a long list of Tea Party members who were on record saying that slavery was a fundamental right and advocated/voted for it and imagine you asked me to name even one Tea Party member who was on record for not agreeing with slavery and I could not but instead I named some republicans who said that they were against slavery and I insisted they were Tea Party members even though you knew they were not.

You would conclude and you would be right to say that being a Tea Party member meant you accepted slavery as a fundamental right but would not say the same for main stream republicans. And you would be right! If the Tea Party stood for everything I stand for except slavery, I would not associate with that party over that one key position.

I do not expect you to get this, you argue with me for arguments sake.

 

[PLC1]

This must be the quote you are speaking of pocket, I was confused since you didn't put in the full quote.


Yes I think to be a liberal you must accept abortion as a fundamental right. Not only because its what liberals themselves teach but because with the exception of talk show host Ed Shultz (who is attacked by liberals often for being pro life) Just because a person is a democrat does not make them a liberal. Not all democrats think abortion is a fundamental right, that is something liberals say, not democrats in general.

Every liberal I know of, including every liberal in government is not only pro abortion they wont vote for a federal judge, supreme court judge who is not also pro abortion.

Democrats and liberals are not the same thing and blue dog conservative democrats are not liberals even if you want to pretend they are. They can be in your world but in the main stream world it just isn't so.

You may know a liberal in your personal life who is liberal and pro life, it is possible.... look at Ed Shultz but the only liberals that we can both know who they are and what their record is on abortion would be public figures. So my knowing no liberals who are pro life in my personal life and your knowing one liberal who is pro life in your personal life is a mute point since it cannot be proven.

But since you and I cannot even agree on who is a liberal the argument is pointless.

Let me try to put this in a way you would understand.


Imagine the Tea Party taught that slavery was a fundamental right. Imagine that You could name a long list of Tea Party members who were on record saying that slavery was a fundamental right and advocated/voted for it and imagine you asked me to name even one Tea Party member who was on record for not agreeing with slavery and I could not but instead I named some republicans who said that they were against slavery and I insisted they were Tea Party members even though you knew they were not.

You would conclude and you would be right to say that being a Tea Party member meant you accepted slavery as a fundamental right but would not say the same for main stream republicans. And you would be right! If the Tea Party stood for everything I stand for except slavery, I would not associate with that party over that one key position.

I do not expect you to get this, you argue with me for arguments sake.

I get it, and probably Pockets does too. Not all Democrats are liberals, not all liberals are Democrats. I've said the same thing myself, as a matter of fact. We saw a liberal Republican in the White House quite recently, as I recall, but wait, wasn't he pro life?

Was Bush a liberal? He most certainly believed in a big government, don't you think?

Come to think of it, just what does big government statism have to do with abortion anyway? If there is any relationship at all, it is a conflict between the liberal philosophy of the government being the solution to all problems, and the individual deciding when a fetus is to be carried to term.

If the philosophy of liberals is to allow government to run our lives, then it follows that the government would decide when an abortion may or may not be performed. Isn't that a basic conflict in ideology?

 

[pocketfullofshells]

I get it, and probably Pockets does too. Not all Democrats are liberals, not all liberals are Democrats. I've said the same thing myself, as a matter of fact. We saw a liberal Republican in the White House quite recently, as I recall, but wait, wasn't he pro life?

Was Bush a liberal? He most certainly believed in a big government, don't you think?

Come to think of it, just what does big government statism have to do with abortion anyway? If there is any relationship at all, it is a conflict between the liberal philosophy of the government being the solution to all problems, and the individual deciding when a fetus is to be carried to term.

If the philosophy of liberals is to allow government to run our lives, then it follows that the government would decide when an abortion may or may not be performed. Isn't that a basic conflict in ideology?

I think gipper had it best, when he said liberal is anyone he does not agree with

 

[Pandora]

I get it, and probably Pockets does too. Not all Democrats are liberals, not all liberals are Democrats. I've said the same thing myself, as a matter of fact. We saw a liberal Republican in the White House quite recently, as I recall, but wait, wasn't he pro life?

Was Bush a liberal? He most certainly believed in a big government, don't you think?

Come to think of it, just what does big government statism have to do with abortion anyway? If there is any relationship at all, it is a conflict between the liberal philosophy of the government being the solution to all problems, and the individual deciding when a fetus is to be carried to term.

If the philosophy of liberals is to allow government to run our lives, then it follows that the government would decide when an abortion may or may not be performed. Isn't that a basic conflict in ideology?

President Bush was not a liberal though he spent money liberally. He was not a conservative either except in social issues.

The government should not decide when we live or die. Government should protect the general welfare of the citizens of the United States. That would mean protecting all of us, even the smallest of us.

I do not see a conflict with the government having laws that we cannot kill our children or anyone else for that matter. But the problem is defining children I suppose, as sad as that is.

 

[pocketfullofshells]

President Bush was not a liberal though he spent money liberally. He was not a conservative either except in social issues.

The government should not decide when we live or die. Government should protect the general welfare of the citizens of the United States. That would mean protecting all of us, even the smallest of us.

I do not see a conflict with the government having laws that we cannot kill our children or anyone else for that matter. But the problem is defining children I suppose, as sad as that is.

in what way was he not conservative?`Taking Ronny Reagan as the god to Conservitives...what did Bush do that he did not? Spending alot? Ronny did that...Lower taxes? Ronny did that....run up huge debt? Ronny did that.....Bail out Big Companys? Ronny Bailed out Chrysler.....bailed out the banks? you mean like Savings and loan?