I'm not sure. Gipper says that a liberal is someone who favors government control over individual choice. According to that, a liberal would be against a right to choose.
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Must liberals be pro choice?
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I'm not sure. Gipper says that a liberal is someone who favors government control over individual choice. According to that, a liberal would be against a right to choose.
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Pandora
Well-Known Member
Liberals are very much against the right to choose in most things except abortion
It is the liberal who denies a parents right to pick a Childs school or what they will learn concerning sex Ed. It's the liberal who forces seat belts and helmets exc.
It's the lib who tries to do gun controll and the liberal who tries to stop a kid from praying before a test
While taking those rights or trying it's the liberal that says we wnt to control you in all these ways but you are free to kill your kid if you want
Pandora
Well-Known Member
Pardon typos. Sent from iPhone
That seems kind of inconsistent to me, don't you agree?
I've been saying all along that it would logically be the liberals who would be pro life, and the conservatives pro choice, yet the opposite seems to be the case.
Libertarian philosophy, on the other hand, favors individual choice consistently:
Abortion: I may find it reprehensible, but don't want to impose my moral choices on others. Others may want to impose their morality on me, after all.
Gun control: Individual choice. Support the second Amendment.
Parents should be the ones to choose their child's school.
If someone is foolish enough to refuse to use basic safety devices, who am I to say that they must?
and anyone should be free to pray to whatever god they believe in wherever they happen to be.
It is the Libertarian philosophy that is consistent.
Gipper
Well-Known Member
Not inconsistent at all.
And where you born in 1850 or what? Liberals are pro-life...WTF is that???
Liberalism is tyranny and conservatism is individual liberty...now repeat after me....
No, libertarianism is individual liberty. Conservatism just wants to impose different controls on individual behavior than liberals.
Pandora
Well-Known Member
Most libertarians are like Ron Paul and pro life. We just do not have the right to kill other people, if a human being inside you were just a tumor or something then of course its your right to remove the tumor but its a human being we are talking about and they have individual rights too so you are not in line wit libertarians when you say you dont want to impose your view on them. I would hope you would impose your view an a newborn, but then again that would make little sense since both are helpless human beings
Your opinion that life begins at conception is just that, an opinion. I know you think it is proven beyond a doubt, but that is just your interpretation.
Well, yours and a lot of other peoples' as well, but it still is a point of view, most generally based on religious convictions.
If my opinion is that animal life is equivalent to human life (crazy, sure, but a lot of people do believe this. Stay with me) and that eating meat is equivalent to murder, since an innocent life has to be sacrificed for the meat we eat, is it OK for me to impose that opinion on the rest of society by force of law? Should I be able to impose a vegan diet on the whole country because of my belief?
Gipper
Well-Known Member
Yes so right if you believe the Constitution imposes controls. And no doubt you do.
The Constitution was designed to CONTROL government which of course libs hate. Libs want unlimited government which means limited or nonexistent individual liberty.
Pandora
Well-Known Member
Lets pretend that a baby is not a baby at conception. Let's pretend that a baby is really a puppy at the moment of conception or a kitten or an alien from mars.
By the time a women confirms a pregnancy and wants to get and schedules an appointment for an abortion she is generally 2-3 months along. With a DNA of its own, a full nervous system, a heart, lungs, liver and so on, at this point is it still something other than a human being in your eyes?
When that doctor takes the baby out of the woman one leg at a time then arms then torso then smashes the head with the little tool to get it out of the woman's cervix (all without any pain killer for the "thing" inside her that has a full nervous system)... and the various body parts are laying there. What species do you figure this "thing" is when you look at the legs, arms and torso with a smashed head laying on a table?
and if you do not think life begins at conception, do you think the "thing" inside the woman is dead at conception? I am no scientist but I am going to assume that there is a life at conception since the "thing" inside her is alive. I am also going to assume its not a tumor since it has its on DNA right off the bat. And by the time a woman figures out she might be pregnant this "thing" has all the vital organs that I have. And unless she was making it with dogs, cats or horses or a man from mars, I am going to assume its a human
but again, I am no scientist so I could be wrong
Pandora
Well-Known Member
Pandora
Well-Known Member
You really crack me up. I wonder when do you think life begins? I know you do not think it begins at conception, so when do you think the living thing inside a woman with its on DNA becomes alive?
And is it reasonable to assume if life does not begin at conception that the "thing" inside a woman AKA the baby, is dead inside the woman when she finds out she is pregnant?
I still struggle with the concept that a baby inside a woman is not a person. That is usually what pro abortion people claim. They don't tend to say its not alive.
Are you saying there is no life there or its just not a valuable enough life to have rights?
Gipper
Well-Known Member
Same to you.
Gipper
Well-Known Member
His head is full of lies promoted by the abortionists. They claim the fetus is not a living thing so killing it is not murder. They must justify their horrific holocaust of the unborn somehow.
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Correct. The Constitution was designed to control the government, not the individual.
Conservatives want limits on individual liberty as well, just different ones. It is the Libertarians who espouse the purpose of government described in the Declaration of Independence: to safeguard our god given rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.
