Must liberals be pro choice?

[Pandora]

in what way was he not conservative?`Taking Ronny Reagan as the god to Conservitives...what did Bush do that he did not? Spending alot? Ronny did that...Lower taxes? Ronny did that....run up huge debt? Ronny did that.....Bail out Big Companys? Ronny Bailed out Chrysler.....bailed out the banks? you mean like Savings and loan?

President Bush was not as conservative as Reagan was. Its easy for me to say I don't think Reagan would have voted for tarp or a few of the other social medicare programs President Bush did. We never really will know but Reagan was one who spoke more of individual freedoms. I think President Bush believed in that sort of thing too but probably not as much as Reagan. Big government didn't seem to bother President Bush much though he seemed to want a different kind of big government than a liberal would want.

Bush was right of center not even a moderate like John McCain. Reagan was more conservative than either President Bush or McCain.

Spending allot on our military and weapons and spending allot on TARP and medicare are very different.

Or perhaps..... President Bush was one of those pro life liberals we were arguing about earlier

 

[pocketfullofshells]

President Bush was not as conservative as Reagan was. Its easy for me to say I don't think Reagan would have voted for tarp or a few of the other social medicare programs President Bush did. We never really will know but Reagan was one who spoke more of individual freedoms. I think President Bush believed in that sort of thing too but probably not as much as Reagan. Big government didn't seem to bother President Bush much though he seemed to want a different kind of big government than a liberal would want.

Bush was right of center not even a moderate like John McCain. Reagan was more conservative than either President Bush or McCain.

Spending allot on our military and weapons and spending allot on TARP and medicare are very different.

Or perhaps..... President Bush was one of those pro life liberals we were arguing about earlier

so 2 wars of spending was not enough on military and weapons for you? and Tarp was savings and loan + Chrysler.

even if tarp was not same as Savings and loan ( only change is scale possibly) that means Bush was conservative for 7.5 of 8 years and one bail out to save our econ system...means not conservative?

 

[Pandora]

so 2 wars of spending was not enough on military and weapons for you? and Tarp was savings and loan + Chrysler.

even if tarp was not same as Savings and loan ( only change is scale possibly) that means Bush was conservative for 7.5 of 8 years and one bail out to save our econ system...means not conservative?

He is more conservative than not but I would not consider him a conservative

Neo Con is a word that was thrown around. A new kind of conservative. I suppose that word fits ok, but not a traditional conservative.

Also amnesty is not a conservative thing and he was sure for that.


Pocket if you want to call him a conservative you can but most conservatives would want him to be more conservative

 

[pocketfullofshells]

He is more conservative than not but I would not consider him a conservative

Neo Con is a word that was thrown around. A new kind of conservative. I suppose that word fits ok, but not a traditional conservative.

Also amnesty is not a conservative thing and he was sure for that.


Pocket if you want to call him a conservative you can but most conservatives would want him to be more conservative

I see, so if I call a blue dog liberal...that does not count...but you can just pick and choose who is Conservative...even though you can't show how he is different then the god of Conservatives....don't worry I am not shocked, I know you guys love to do this...when ever someone is attacked...they are not a conservative...when you want to take credit for something from them, then they are....

taking the God (you guys want him on Mt Rushmore) and Bush ( who you say is not a consrvitive...but of now even backtracked on that) and you can't show me the difference...

Was in Amnesty? Bush...well Bush did not even do that, Reagan did...
Maybe to be a conservative you you need to trade arms and cash with terrorist?
Maybe when the nation is attacked like Sept 11 ( Marine Barracks in Lebanon) you should..run away...? is that the more conservative of the 2 ?

I would think from someone who is not a conservative ( Bush) to the Greatest Conservative Folk Hero ( Regan) there should be some very very clear Huge gaps...but Not seeing them....

Maybe my idea is off base...maybe Reagan was a Liberal?

 

[Pandora]

I see, so if I call a blue dog liberal...that does not count...but you can just pick and choose who is Conservative...even though you can't show how he is different then the god of Conservatives....don't worry I am not shocked, I know you guys love to do this...when ever someone is attacked...they are not a conservative...when you want to take credit for something from them, then they are....

taking the God (you guys want him on Mt Rushmore) and Bush ( who you say is not a consrvitive...but of now even backtracked on that) and you can't show me the difference...

Was in Amnesty? Bush...well Bush did not even do that, Reagan did...
Maybe to be a conservative you you need to trade arms and cash with terrorist?
Maybe when the nation is attacked like Sept 11 ( Marine Barracks in Lebanon) you should..run away...? is that the more conservative of the 2 ?

I would think from someone who is not a conservative ( Bush) to the Greatest Conservative Folk Hero ( Regan) there should be some very very clear Huge gaps...but Not seeing them....

Maybe my idea is off base...maybe Reagan was a Liberal?

You thinking President Bush is a conservative is EXACTLY like you thinking the blue dogs are liberals. Neither is true but you can think it if you want to.

President Bush was pushing amnesty for the sake of pushing amnesty, Reagan agreed to amnesty because congress promised to protect the borders if he would pass it. Reagan did his part, congress did not. I do not agree with Reagan on that issue, he should have known that congress was a bunch of lying back stabbing jerks who would never keep their word but at least he did his amnesty in hopes of a deal that the borders would be secured. President Bush just wanted to do amnesty. There is a huge difference there that you will not be able to see.

One really big difference between them is the size of government. Reagan campaigned on reducing government and getting government off our backs. Bush was fine with a large government, he just wanted a more republican version rather than a liberal version of large government. Conservatives are for small government not a large one, even if its controlled by republicans.

This does not make Bush a liberal or even a moderate. He leaned further right than a mod and only spent like a lib

When President Bush was at his lowest point in the polls, that means even conservatives were unhappy. Do you think the conservatives were unhappy because he was too conservative? Ha Ha Ha, you probably would think that.

We were un happy because he was not conservative enough. Through out his presidency he kept leaning left to appease the left, thinking they would meet him half way. They never were going to, all they would do is attack him more then laugh that the further left he leaned the lower he would go in the polls because he was pissing off the conservatives who backed him in the first place.

As for Bush passing amnesty, you are right he did not pass it. He wanted to, he tried to....CONSERVATIVES STOPPED HIM!

As for Reagan being a liberal, no he was not a liberal just as the blue dogs are not liberals.

 

[PLC1]

President Bush was not a liberal though he spent money liberally. He was not a conservative either except in social issues.

He was a liberal where it counted, in growth of government, and deficit spending. It's easy for the POTUS to be a conservative on social issues, as he has no power in that area anyway. you're correct: He is a pro life liberal.

The government should not decide when we live or die. Government should protect the general welfare of the citizens of the United States. That would mean protecting all of us, even the smallest of us.

No, the government should not get to decide whether we live or die.

I do not see a conflict with the government having laws that we cannot kill our children or anyone else for that matter. But the problem is defining children I suppose, as sad as that is.

Yes, that is the problem. If a microscopic collection of cells is a child, then the government is unable to protect children. Even if they outlawed abortion, that law could never be enforced.

 

[GenSeneca]

If a microscopic collection of cells is a child

It would go a long way if people referred to the "microscopic collection of cells" as an unborn child instead of a "nonviable tissue mass" or a "potential life"... Such language only serves to dehumanize the unborn and make it easier for people to justify ending the lives of unborn children.

 

[pocketfullofshells]

You thinking President Bush is a conservative is EXACTLY like you thinking the blue dogs are liberals. Neither is true but you can think it if you want to.

President Bush was pushing amnesty for the sake of pushing amnesty, Reagan agreed to amnesty because congress promised to protect the borders if he would pass it. Reagan did his part, congress did not. I do not agree with Reagan on that issue, he should have known that congress was a bunch of lying back stabbing jerks who would never keep their word but at least he did his amnesty in hopes of a deal that the borders would be secured. President Bush just wanted to do amnesty. There is a huge difference there that you will not be able to see.

One really big difference between them is the size of government. Reagan campaigned on reducing government and getting government off our backs. Bush was fine with a large government, he just wanted a more republican version rather than a liberal version of large government. Conservatives are for small government not a large one, even if its controlled by republicans.

This does not make Bush a liberal or even a moderate. He leaned further right than a mod and only spent like a lib

When President Bush was at his lowest point in the polls, that means even conservatives were unhappy. Do you think the conservatives were unhappy because he was too conservative? Ha Ha Ha, you probably would think that.

We were un happy because he was not conservative enough. Through out his presidency he kept leaning left to appease the left, thinking they would meet him half way. They never were going to, all they would do is attack him more then laugh that the further left he leaned the lower he would go in the polls because he was pissing off the conservatives who backed him in the first place.

As for Bush passing amnesty, you are right he did not pass it. He wanted to, he tried to....CONSERVATIVES STOPPED HIM!

As for Reagan being a liberal, no he was not a liberal just as the blue dogs are not liberals.

Reagan Grew under Reagan...sorry to burst the bubble...and no trying to say well he wanted to, but it was congress...he has a veto pen....and the Buck stops at the top ( or is that only when Dems are at the top?)

 

[pocketfullofshells]

so lets see now

Bush...Government grew....
Reagan goverment grew by 61,000 people ( Clinton losts over 300,000)

Both Created new Cabinet position ...
Reagan , the department of veterans affairs
Bush Homeland Security

Both increased Spending...

Both Increased Debt in what where both record amounts at the time

Reagan gave Aministy to illegals
Bush talked about it...did not do it...and even then his plan was far far short of the amnesty of Reagan
Point to conservative..Bush

Both did zero to things that changed abortion...

Both favored Big Business

Both Lowered taxes
Bush lowered them...( then all our property taxes here and other taxes went up to counter) but still....
Reagan then raised them a few times...to pay for...SS and Medicare,,,,aka money for Evil Socialist Marxist Cuban Health Care
Bush wins on conversation points there

Both talked about how some evil enemy hated us for our Freedoms ( even if thats not why..it sounds nice right? )

Both let companies Pollute more...a conservative value it seems

Both Bailed out Banks
Bush ..TARP
R.R...Savings and Loan

Autos...
Bush ...helped but did not bail out ( he know Obama would so why not wait a bit longer)
Reagan , Chrysler bail out ( like Obamas...in end turned profit..so does that make it a wash...bail out is a negative point, profit is a pro, so wash?




as I look at this...Reagan was the Liberal..

Bush the conservitive...

and Seems Bill Clinton could beat reagan maybe...

 

[pocketfullofshells]

It would go a long way if people referred to the "microscopic collection of cells" as an unborn child instead of a "nonviable tissue mass" or a "potential life"... Such language only serves to dehumanize the unborn and make it easier for people to justify ending the lives of unborn children.

Republicans can't seem to do that with Gays, Muslims, Mexicans...maybe they should work on that first..counting full grown adults are people whos lives have value...then worry about cells that they could not even look at and tell you what ones could be a person , and the other a frog at some points.

 

[Pandora]

you're correct: He is a pro life liberal.

I didn't say he is a liberal, I said he spent money like a liberal


I said he was right of center, more conservative than not.

He was more conservative than McCain who is a moderate. He is less conservative than a number of republicans in the house. There may even be a few blue dogs who are more conservative than him.

But he isn't a liberal and he isn't really a conservative, just some where in the middle.... Right of center

 

[PLC1]

I didn't say he is a liberal, I said he spent money like a liberal


I said he was right of center, more conservative than not.

He was more conservative than McCain who is a moderate. He is less conservative than a number of republicans in the house. There may even be a few blue dogs who are more conservative than him.

But he isn't a liberal and he isn't really a conservative, just some where in the middle.... Right of center

If it walks like a liberal, spends money like a liberal, supports big government programs funded by deficit spending like a liberal, then it's probably a duck. Sure.

 

[pocketfullofshells]

If it walks like a liberal, spends money like a liberal, supports big government programs funded by deficit spending like a liberal, then it's probably a duck. Sure.

yep Reagan sure was a liberal

 

[Pandora]

If it walks like a liberal, spends money like a liberal, supports big government programs funded by deficit spending like a liberal, then it's probably a duck. Sure.

As long as we are clear that it is in fact you who is calling President Bush a liberal and not myself as you said in your post.

If President Bush is a liberal, what is obama?

 

[PLC1]

As long as we are clear that it is in fact you who is calling President Bush a liberal and not myself as you said in your post.

I thought that was clear. I'm the one saying that Bush is a liberal. I've said so before as well.

If President Bush is a liberal, what is obama?

He is a flaming conservative, of course.

No, just kidding. Obama is a liberal Democrat in the LBJ tradition.