Is this a politicial forum? can we debate freely?

Yes it is a bad thing. What gives the govt the right to take from anyone? It is not their place to take from one and give to another.
That's The Word in Jr. High Schools, presently, huh?

:rolleyes:

You kiddies really do need to listen a-little-less to Porky Limbaugh.​
 
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What's your master plan to get them to earn more? Have the government make companies pay higher wages?

If you think the pittance poor people are getting is anything close to the payday the upper class is getting, you best check the scorecard. The only reason the poor get what they get is because the oligarchs are content to squeeze the middle class further.

When this country burns, the oligarchs will be dancing a jig.

Too many people put profit before country. Very few will be reaping the benefits down the road.

The master plan is none other than that described in the constitution.

Gov should do all it can to protect the rights of people so that they are free to make a living in a just and fair society.

Above you have said that the oligarchs are depriving the poor. End that deprivation and all will be much better, right?

You also said that the poor get little compared to those with more. That is class warfare and is not productive. Stop worrying about how successful another is and worry about making yourself a success. As long as the succesful person did not deprive any other of rights then nothing is wrong. If they did deprive others of rights then why didn't the gov stop it?
 
Exactly my point. Thank you. Because of things like Food Stamps we have through a government program assured that children of poor parents anywhere across this nation don't have to go hungry. This was not the case before the government program. There was some charity from church's etc. but not nearly enough to handle the need.

Do you honestly believe that before food stamps that people starved en masse in the streets in the US?

People worked or went to food banks or churches or soup kitchens or bread lines or alms houses or neighbors or family or the back door of the restaurant. In places where corruption was rampant, like in large cities in the industrial revolution, they went to prison. But the correct solution to a problem that was both local in time and place was not to create food stamps but to end the corruption.

I went to google to try to find something on the history of starvation in the united states and there were zero hits. Do you know how hard it is to find no information on a subject? Why, when I searched "three legged cats" I came up with 114,000 hits (some were no doubt mis-hits). Perhaps the amount of starvation in the united states has been so negligible as to not be worthy of writing about on all of the www?
 
Not true. Say NASA for instance. There is no private organization that could or would have sent a man to the moon way back when we did. However the things we learn through space exploration helps with vital military systems and a wide range of other topics that can benefit all Americans.


Nasa was not a pressing need. The world would have been fine if we had never gone to the moon. yes it had benefits but you do not know that we would not have invented Tang without it.
Same with a national highway system or any number of vaccines.

We had roads before the fed existed. We would have had great roads too. like we do today, as soon as asphalt was invented. People would have been motivated by profit to build roads just like there were before the fed and still are today. I live in a community with private roads and there are no toll gates.

Vaccines were invented privately and are produced privately and the only part that gov plays is to distribute them and to force people to take them. We could have done without that.
Americans would not have built the industry and commerce that it did nearly so quickly without the highway system.

We would have had a highway system.
Millions of Americans would have died of various diseases had government funding not moved research forward at a hugely quicker pace. These things are simply undeniable.

These things are very deniable. Most advances in medicine today come from the US where we still have the least gov intervention. It is the profit motive that drives the research more than anything else.
 


Exactly. The fact is that as more & more Americans are able to be healthy and get good educations they bring up the overall standard. They gain the ability to be self sufficient and then prosperous greatly benefiting our entire country.




I agree. It is when gov makes people play fair that all benefit the most.
 



Well it does allow it. That was ruled on years ago. This whole progressive tax system didn't just start yesterday. And regardless the Constitution was without any doubt a flawed document in itself on various issues, allowing slavery jumps right out. So the idea of hard some line perfection is simply a myth. Evolving with modern circumstances sometimes creates different requirements.

The progressive income tax is the fairest way we have found. In fact it needs to be modernized in some areas. Such as people only paying into Social Security on their first $100,000 of yearly income. People earning $100,000 or less pay 7.65% on every dollar they earn. People making over $100,000 PAY NOTHING... ZERO... on everything they make over $100,000.

So right now if you make $100,000 per year you pay the exact same into Social Security as the multimillionaire or the billionaire.


It did not allow it as written. Changing what it said about taxes was a mistake.

The progressive income tax is an evil excuse for stealing that should be stopped.
 
Somehow, I never thought of Joseph Stalin as a lover or defender of Humans or their rights! what say you?

Joseph Stalin defended the Jews against the extermination policies of the German Nazi Party.

Comrade Stalin
 
Joseph Stalin defended the Jews against the extermination policies of the German Nazi Party.

Comrade Stalin

I guess that excuses killing about 20 million people. And enacting policies that resulted in another 6 million dying from famine and another 4 million from miscellaneous causes related to the regime.

I am sure that Stalin was a friend of the Jews. Though we do know he was an enemy of Hitler after Hitler betrayed their non-aggression treaty (a betrayal that caused him to hole up in grief for several days).

lets look at this:

"Not even ten years after the Nazi destruction of European Jewry, Josef Stalin was bent upon the same course. Decades of purges, executions, imprisonment's and exiles of tens of thousands of Soviet Jews had escalated during the early years of the Cold War into a full-scale attack upon Soviet Jewry. By early 1953, the media launched daily attacks against the Jews under the pretext of the infamous "Doctors plot" in which Jewish doctors were accused of planning to poison government officials. As a result of the accusations, numerous doctors and other Soviet Jews were incarcerated, and executed. As in Nazi Germany, and so many other nations throughout history, they were used as scapegoats for all of their nation's woes. Hounded by both the media and the police, the Jews of the Soviet Union, lived in terror. The driving force behind the terror was Stalin.

Stalin's onslaught against the Jews was not something random; there was a calculated purpose to his madness. At the time, rumors had already become widespread that he was planning to deport thousands of Jews to Biro Bidzhan (an alleged Jewish autonomous region) and Siberia"
http://www.jewishmag.com/65mag/stalin/stalin.htm

So what stopped him from killing ALL the Jews?

"At the end of February 1953, a meeting took place between leaders of the Soviet regime. There, Stalin revealed his plans for Soviet Jewry. No Mordechai or Esther was present, but Haman was there. At the meeting, Stalin's pent up fury reached a crescendo and exploded into an uncontrolled rage, which resulted in his death and perhaps the salvation of millions."

But in a wonderful moment of poetic justice (the "Doctors Plot" was when Stalin had all the Jewish doctors killed):

"As Stalin's rage reached a crescendo, he collapsed on the floor suffering a massive stroke. As he lay stricken, no specialist arrived to help him. They were all executed and imprisoned during the "Doctor's plot." Fifteen to 20 minutes' later, doctors arrived. Stalin was brought to his private apartment where he lay gravely ill. Soviet party leaders surrounded him, many eagerly anticipating his imminent death and the end of his reign. In his final gesture, he pointed his finger towards those present at his bedside including his daughter suggesting their guilt or complicity in a conspiracy to kill him. Then he died."
 
It did not allow it as written. Changing what it said about taxes was a mistake.

The progressive income tax is an evil excuse for stealing that should be stopped.

poor Top - Gun, aka "water pistol", small. He belives all that leftist crap about ONLY Government cares!, lol,lol - He also believes Obama is concerned about AmericA!LOL,LOL- Some will swallow anything! , I think barney frank said that!
 
Joseph Stalin defended the Jews against the extermination policies of the German Nazi Party.

Comrade Stalin

YEA!!! Stalin wanted to and did kill millions of Jews.He just did not want Hitler cutting in on his fun!
 
I guess that excuses killing about 20 million people. And enacting policies that resulted in another 6 million dying from famine and another 4 million from miscellaneous causes related to the regime.

I am sure that Stalin was a friend of the Jews. Though we do know he was an enemy of Hitler after Hitler betrayed their non-aggression treaty (a betrayal that caused him to hole up in grief for several days).

lets look at this:

"Not even ten years after the Nazi destruction of European Jewry, Josef Stalin was bent upon the same course. Decades of purges, executions, imprisonment's and exiles of tens of thousands of Soviet Jews had escalated during the early years of the Cold War into a full-scale attack upon Soviet Jewry. By early 1953, the media launched daily attacks against the Jews under the pretext of the infamous "Doctors plot" in which Jewish doctors were accused of planning to poison government officials. As a result of the accusations, numerous doctors and other Soviet Jews were incarcerated, and executed. As in Nazi Germany, and so many other nations throughout history, they were used as scapegoats for all of their nation's woes. Hounded by both the media and the police, the Jews of the Soviet Union, lived in terror. The driving force behind the terror was Stalin.

Stalin's onslaught against the Jews was not something random; there was a calculated purpose to his madness. At the time, rumors had already become widespread that he was planning to deport thousands of Jews to Biro Bidzhan (an alleged Jewish autonomous region) and Siberia"
http://www.jewishmag.com/65mag/stalin/stalin.htm

So what stopped him from killing ALL the Jews?

"At the end of February 1953, a meeting took place between leaders of the Soviet regime. There, Stalin revealed his plans for Soviet Jewry. No Mordechai or Esther was present, but Haman was there. At the meeting, Stalin's pent up fury reached a crescendo and exploded into an uncontrolled rage, which resulted in his death and perhaps the salvation of millions."

But in a wonderful moment of poetic justice (the "Doctors Plot" was when Stalin had all the Jewish doctors killed):

"As Stalin's rage reached a crescendo, he collapsed on the floor suffering a massive stroke. As he lay stricken, no specialist arrived to help him. They were all executed and imprisoned during the "Doctor's plot." Fifteen to 20 minutes' later, doctors arrived. Stalin was brought to his private apartment where he lay gravely ill. Soviet party leaders surrounded him, many eagerly anticipating his imminent death and the end of his reign. In his final gesture, he pointed his finger towards those present at his bedside including his daughter suggesting their guilt or complicity in a conspiracy to kill him. Then he died."

Our "in- house ' stalin will never believe you or recorded history. I suspect he is an obama misfit and one who believes obama's lie about putting the five TERRORIST on trial in New York is about them. No, obama is really putting America on trial, wanting to put Bush , Cheney, and EVERYONE of our SOLDIERS on trial! Obama hates America and will use this "FIXED TRIAL" to disgrace our nation . Plus, it takes the attention off his crimes while he continues to DESTROY AMERICA!, My God , what have we done??
 
The master plan is none other than that described in the constitution.

Gov should do all it can to protect the rights of people so that they are free to make a living in a just and fair society.

Above you have said that the oligarchs are depriving the poor. End that deprivation and all will be much better, right?

You also said that the poor get little compared to those with more. That is class warfare and is not productive. Stop worrying about how successful another is and worry about making yourself a success. As long as the succesful person did not deprive any other of rights then nothing is wrong. If they did deprive others of rights then why didn't the gov stop it?

Perhaps we should define success.

Success isn't Wall Street booking paper profits to get huge bonus payouts only to leave the average Joe holding the bag when the house of cards collapses.
 
Perhaps we should define success.

Success isn't Wall Street booking paper profits to get huge bonus payouts only to leave the average Joe holding the bag when the house of cards collapses.

Leaving another person holding the bag when the house of cards collapses would be harm - it would be the role of gov to stop it or punish it.


Making huge profits legitimately and honestly would be fine and should be neither stopped nor punished. In fact it should be an incentive to the rest of us and those in other countries that it can be done by anyone.
 
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Our "in- house ' stalin will never believe you or recorded history. I suspect he is an obama misfit and one who believes obama's lie about putting the five TERRORIST on trial in New York is about them. No, obama is really putting America on trial, wanting to put Bush , Cheney, and EVERYONE of our SOLDIERS on trial! Obama hates America and will use this "FIXED TRIAL" to disgrace our nation . Plus, it takes the attention off his crimes while he continues to DESTROY AMERICA!, My God , what have we done??

I need to make a correction. Quite by accident I read a story yesterday that said that the famine that killed 4 million was not just a result of his policies.

It turns out that he planned the famine to drive peasants onto collective farms.

Socialism in action.
 
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