Is the Vatican Above the Law?

[The Scotsman]

You can cite all the commission report you want but until such allegations are PROVEN IN A COURT OF LAW, it doesn't mean s_h_i_t, now, does it

.....yeah well.....unless they admit it and pay out...

Just don't let your opinion meander to the point of absurdity -- like your 'the church is trying to hide these crimes' nonsense

I didn't say it.....

Dublin Archbishop Diarmuid Martin slammed Irish Catholic orders for concealing their culpability in decades of child abuse and said they needed to come up with much more money to compensate victims.

The archbishop - whose archdiocese contains more than 1 million of the island's 4 million Catholics - said in an Irish Times column that the Catholic church in Ireland has lost credibility because of its weak response to 15 years of revelations of chronic child abuse within its ranks.

Martin said many church leaders remained "in denial" following a nine-year investigation by a commission, which published a devastating 2,600-page

But I assume the Archbishop must wrong because there's been no "due process"? I would also assume that such comments from such a senior cleric would be seen as antagonistic within the church establishment as it could predjudice any criminal prosecutions?

 

[dahermit]

It depends. Was it confessed within the sanctity of the confessional?

Obviously, his superior cannot violate that.

A fool's argument. Priests serve at the pleasure of the Catholic Church. If a priest confessed, in the context of the confessional, although the superior who heard his confession cannot tell the authorities, he could require that in order to be granted absolution, the priest had to resign. But, noooooo! He is told to "sin no more" (which is not possible for a pedophile), must be sincerely sorry, and is reassigned so that the public does not become aware of what he has done. I will repeat: Priests have no union, they serve at the pleasure of the Catholic Church. They can be terminated without cause.

 

[numinus]

.....yeah well.....unless they admit it and pay out...

Which begs the question -- is this about justice or is it about showing you the moneeeeeeeeeeeeeey!

Because certainly, if this is about a shake down of biblical proportions, I'd be skeptical about any accusation.

I didn't say it.....

That you didn't. But for the record, it was said in this forum and it was said with contemptous arrogance.

But I assume the Archbishop must wrong because there's been no "due process"?

Correct. In a court of law, it would be hearsay. Even if the commission report were 10,000 pages thick, it would still need to be cross-examined by the defense before it can be considered FACT.

I would also assume that such comments from such a senior cleric would be seen as antagonistic within the church establishment as it could predjudice any criminal prosecutions?

Not really. You know how jury selection goes. You get a jury who, most likely, have not formed an opinion of the case. Media has a lot to do with forming an opinion about a case. The only thing about media reports is -- they are not FACTS admissible in a court of law.

It is damaging to the the church as far as public image is concerned. After all, nobody reads the court decisions. Everyone remembers what was said in the news.

 

[numinus]

A fool's argument. Priests serve at the pleasure of the Catholic Church. If a priest confessed, in the context of the confessional, although the superior who heard his confession cannot tell the authorities, he could require that in order to be granted absolution, the priest had to resign. But, noooooo! He is told to "sin no more" (which is not possible for a pedophile), must be sincerely sorry, and is reassigned so that the public does not become aware of what he has done. I will repeat: Priests have no union, they serve at the pleasure of the Catholic Church. They can be terminated without cause.

What are you talking about?????

The catholic church has its own court governed by canon law. If you want to void a marriage sanctified by the catholic church, you need to hire a canon lawyer to argue your case in the vatican. Same with de-frocking.

And if it is impossible for a pedophile to 'just say no', then pedophilia would be a condition that robs a person the ability to choose. If one is not free to choose, how can he be criminally liable, hmmm?

 

[dahermit]

What are you talking about?????

The catholic church has its own court governed by canon law. If you want to void a marriage sanctified by the catholic church, you need to hire a canon lawyer to argue your case in the vatican. Same with de-frocking.

If a priest resisted the instruction that in order to receive absolution he had to resign he could have his case heard. But the guilty ones (of course you do not believe that there are any), would not want a string of former alter boys testifying against them.

God preserve the "Holy" church.

 

[numinus]

If a priest resisted the instruction that in order to receive absolution he had to resign he could have his case heard. But the guilty ones (of course you do not believe that there are any), would not want a string of former alter boys testifying against them.

God preserve the "Holy" church.

What patent nonsense.

Priesthood isn't just a job. It is a vocation the same way married life is a vocation.

We have priests who are guilty of open rebellion in my country and it isn't that simple to de-frock them since -- guess what???? -- there is STILL THE RULE OF LAW TO CONTEND WITH.

Uhmmmm....duh?

 

[dahermit]

What patent nonsense.

Priesthood isn't just a job. It is a vocation the same way married life is a vocation.

We have priests who are guilty of open rebellion in my country and it isn't that simple to de-frock them since -- guess what???? -- there is STILL THE RULE OF LAW TO CONTEND WITH.

Uhmmmm....duh?

You don't read so good. If a sodomite priest was, "...told in the confessional that he had to resign to receive absolution for the "sin" of sodomy..."
Or is it beyond the authority of a priest to require such? If so, why has not the "Holy" church made that a requirement of absolution for that sin/crime? After all, the Vatican can make any rule it so desires.

 

[dahermit]

...open rebellion in my country...

Things not going well in your third-world, mud hut, catholic Paradise? You could always say a "Novina to St. Jude", after all, "...it has never been known to fail..."

 

[numinus]

You don't read so good. If a sodomite priest was, "...told in the confessional that he had to resign to receive absolution for the "sin" of sodomy..."
Or is it beyond the authority of a priest to require such? If so, why has not the "Holy" church made that a requirement of absolution for that sin/crime? After all, the Vatican can make any rule it so desires.

LOL.

You are clueless, aren't you?

God's forgiveness, as symbolized in the sacrament of reconciliation -- IS UNCONDITIONAL. It isn't the priest hearing the confession that is important -- IT IS BETWEEN GOD AND THE PENITENT.

I really hope you have an idea on how stupid your posts are getting.

Duh?

 

[numinus]

Things not going well in your third-world, mud hut, catholic Paradise? You could always say a "Novina to St. Jude", after all, "...it has never been known to fail..."

LOL.

What can one really say about the convoluted mind of the white man? If his bloated ego cannot accept the fact that he is being out-thought by someone from asia, he conjures images of mud huts to make him feel superior.

Tell you what -- why don't you get an education in that science you are talking about -- the same science you are pretending to use to discredit someone else's faith -- and come back to me when you have a firm grasp of it.

Uhmmm...duh?

 

[dahermit]

LOL.

You are clueless, aren't you?

God's forgiveness, as symbolized in the sacrament of reconciliation -- IS UNCONDITIONAL. It isn't the priest hearing the confession that is important -- IT IS BETWEEN GOD AND THE PENITENT.

I really hope you have an idea on how stupid your posts are getting.

Duh?

Yeah right! He who confesses is never given penance are they? Its all unconditional right?

No, ten "Our Fathers", No twenty "Hail Marys", No instruction to "sin no more". No extra $10 bucks in the collection box?

You are so full of it!

 

[dahermit]

LOL.

What can one really say about the convoluted mind of the white man? If his bloated ego cannot accept the fact that he is being out-thought by someone from asia, he conjures images of mud huts to make him feel superior.

Tell you what -- why don't you get an education in that science you are talking about -- the same science you are pretending to use to discredit someone else's faith -- and come back to me when you have a firm grasp of it.

Uhmmm...duh?

Now, now. Calm down little brown brother...before you soil your loin cloth.

Just take a look at how modern your cities are...then notice that they are all of the European (white man), design. Everything in your country will soon look like downtown Chicago if it does not look like that now; except for the mud huts in the less settled areas.

 

[numinus]

Yeah right! He who confesses is never given penance are they? Its all unconditional right?

No, ten "Our Fathers", No twenty "Hail Marys", No instruction to "sin no more". No extra $10 bucks in the collection box?

You are so full of it!

Penance?

The entire sacrament from confession to absolution IS THE SACRAMENT OF PENANCE. And because it is a sacrament, its outward manifestation is not as important as what the PENITENT IMPOSES ON HIMSELF.

The hail mary's are supposed to be prayer -- not some punishment where the ENTIRE RECONCILIATION PROCESS is dependent on. To be more accurate -- it is a formula prayer, the background mantra (so to speak) while you contemplate your sins in the solitude of your own thoughts.

What silly nonsense!

 

[numinus]

Now, now. Calm down little brown brother...before you soil your loin cloth.

That would certainly be a disaster as far as your european forebears are concerned since -- guess what???? -- they don't even have the common sense to wipe their ass.

Just take a look at how modern your cities are...then notice that they are all of the European (white man), design. Everything in your country will soon look like downtown Chicago if it does not look like that now; except for the mud huts in the less settled areas.

All buildings in my country are designed by my countrymen, since, guess what??? -- you cannot practice architecture in my country if you aren't licensed for it under our laws.

Uhmmm...duh?

 

[dahermit]

LOL.

What can one really say about the convoluted mind of the white man? If his bloated ego cannot accept the fact that he is being out-thought by someone from asia, he conjures images of mud huts to make him feel superior.

Tell you what -- why don't you get an education in that science you are talking about -- the same science you are pretending to use to discredit someone else's faith -- and come back to me when you have a firm grasp of it.

Uhmmm...duh?

I apologize, I have been to hard on you. It is true that the convoluted mind of the white man is inferior to that of the oriental.
As the evidence proves. After all orientals were first to circumnavigate the world, discovered the Americas, invented movable type, the printing press, mathematics, modern science, the arch, the wheel, invented the steam engine, invented the airplane, invented the radio, the television, the computer, invented concrete, discovered penicillin, developed jet power, invented antibiotics, invented automatic machines to weave cloth, the washing machine, invented modern firearms, invented the automobile, invented the x-ray machine, ultra-sound, CAT scan machine, invented indoor plumbing, invented the light bulb, the transistor, the printed circuit, the computer chip.

Wait! the orientals did none of those things! Just what has the superior mind if the oriental produced? Chop sticks! But, only after watching a chimpanzee take a twig, wet it with saliva and put it in a termite hole to get termites to stick to it. Orientals also "invented" swine sanitation where toilets are not required...they just throw the "night soil" out the back door and the pigs eat it. Verrrrry clever!

Everything modern that the oriental world has, has been adopted from the "white man", you wear white mans cloths, wear white mans shoes, you wear your hair in a white mans style, you build white mans buildings, you even practice a white man's relegion...Catholosium. The only thing you can claim as your own is your color.