Is homosexuality a choice or is it genetic?

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Fine all married people can turn in there tax breaks..

Works for me. Though as a married person I am usually more concerned with the marriage penalty.

But even if there are some breaks or a penalty we would all be much better off with a tax system that does not tax as high or as complicated or based on silly reasons like the choice to be married or single.
 
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I think your mind is to narrow to understand that is doesn't matter if it's genetical or a choice.
You still can respect people with a different lifestyle.
They are still people just like you and me. So i think they have the same rights as other people do.

"All men are created equal"- Martin Luther King
 
Fine all married people can turn in there tax breaks..

People don't get tax breaks for being married. (In fact, as Who pointed out, most marrieds-filing-jointly are penalized -- their combined income propels them to a higher tax bracket). They get tax breaks for having dependent children.

They are still people just like you and me. So i think they have the same rights as other people do.

Can you even name a right gays miss out on by not being able to call their contracts "marriages"?
 
People don't get tax breaks for being married. (In fact, as Who pointed out, most marrieds-filing-jointly are penalized -- their combined income propels them to a higher tax bracket). They get tax breaks for having dependent children.



Can you even name a right gays miss out on by not being able to call their contracts "marriages"?

Actually 45 states don't recognize gay marriages. "...Apart from Connecticut and California, same-sex marriage is recognized only in Massachusetts, where the state’s highest court ruled in 2004 that the state’s constitution implied protection for marriages between two people of the same sex...".

This election California will be voting to make it part of their state constitution.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25555532

The problem I have is when people feel they have the right, whether it be individuals or special interest groups, to dictate what some one can or can't do in this matter, just because it doesn't fit what they call "normal". But is it genetic, I don't think so. I think, like some others do, that it's their choice, their life. And until we are willing to have these same people, who are against same sex marriages, come in and start telling us what we can, or cannot, in our marriages(or relationships) maybe we ought to rethink it.


SNAKE
 
This matter would likely not be an issue if taxation was fair.

We all suffer taxation without representation, as once our House Rep and State Senator arrive in Washington, they are instantly corrupted into the Money System's fold.

Taxation variance based on behavior, though arguable economically, is ethically discriminatory. It should not matter if my income serves one or two or more, nor should it matter the nature of my freely chosen relationships.

The specious social "gay marriage" argument in this matter is merely an irrelevant afterthought constructed to cope with unfair taxation.

It also doesn't matter that homosexuality is neither a choice or genetic, nor is it gestational fluid based, but originates during the first approximately four years of post-natal life while the brain is still forming as a mostly subconscious neuropsychological reaction to dysfunctional family-of-origin dynamics, a matter of complexity beyond the grasp of common minds.

Regardless, if we were all taxed ethically fairly in all aspects of taxation, income, inheritance, everything, this topic would greatly lose its interest.

Taxation designed to control social behavior must come to an end.

Once taxation is rendered fair, then if economic oppression still exists, it will become all the more obvious that the very nature of the Money System itself is foundationally at fault and in need of courageous replacement.
 
This matter would likely not be an issue if taxation was fair.

We all suffer taxation without representation, as once our House Rep and State Senator arrive in Washington, they are instantly corrupted into the Money System's fold.

Taxation variance based on behavior, though arguable economically, is ethically discriminatory. It should not matter if my income serves one or two or more, nor should it matter the nature of my freely chosen relationships.

The specious social "gay marriage" argument in this matter is merely an irrelevant afterthought constructed to cope with unfair taxation.

It also doesn't matter that homosexuality is neither a choice or genetic, nor is it gestational fluid based, but originates during the first approximately four years of post-natal life while the brain is still forming as a mostly subconscious neuropsychological reaction to dysfunctional family-of-origin dynamics, a matter of complexity beyond the grasp of common minds.

Regardless, if we were all taxed ethically fairly in all aspects of taxation, income, inheritance, everything, this topic would greatly lose its interest.

Taxation designed to control social behavior must come to an end.

Once taxation is rendered fair, then if economic oppression still exists, it will become all the more obvious that the very nature of the Money System itself is foundationally at fault and in need of courageous replacement.
By and large very perceptive and wise.

I disagree that all taxation based on behavior would be unethical. As an example, the guy who buys a very large wood house that requires more efforts from the fire department to protect it from fire should pay more than the guy who bought the small brick house.

And the courts have ruled many times that what is protected from discrimination is not behavior but race, gender and other things that are beyond a person's ability to choose. Which is the reason that this question comes up as a way manipulate tax rules.

P.s. your observation that this question is largely about taxes is very astute and wise.
 
Actually 45 states don't recognize gay marriages. "...Apart from Connecticut and California, same-sex marriage is recognized only in Massachusetts, where the state’s highest court ruled in 2004 that the state’s constitution implied protection for marriages between two people of the same sex...".

This election California will be voting to make it part of their state constitution.

Right, and I said anything to the contrary?

I think, like some others do, that it's their choice, their life.

Sure. And their not being "married" doesn't change that fact.
 
I think a very small percentage are born gay like any other birth defect. The rest is a perversion, a psychological and emotional disorder. I say this because it flys in the face of nature. I'm sure very few other mammals that walk the earth are queer...although I did see a monkey once...forget it.
 
Why ask the question? Is it not irrelevant? Outside of the folks who wish to persecute gays due to their religious beliefs, who cares?
 
I think a very small percentage are born gay like any other birth defect. The rest is a perversion, a psychological and emotional disorder. I say this because it flys in the face of nature. I'm sure very few other mammals that walk the earth are queer...although I did see a monkey once...forget it.

Your surety about homosexual behavior in animals is an example of the profound ignorance that underlies the gay-hating attitude. More than 1500 species of animals exhibit homosexual bonding. Sexual orientation is a normal variation in humans and animals.

What we don't know is why, but since it is found in so many species over such a long period of time it must not be a substantial detriment to species survival, in fact it may have survival value. We do know that women who have at least one gay son average more children than women without a gay son. We also know that there is a an anti-body response in the female body that is pregnant with a male fetus and the female body attempts to feminize the male. This response varies in strength from woman to woman, but statistically speaking, the more sons a woman has the greater chance that succeeding sons will be gay as the anti-body response increases in effectiveness.

The religious argument against gay people is based on the misunderstanding of language and usage. For the first 14 centuries the Christian church did not have a problem with homosexual people--in fact they were married and blessed by God. An excellent reference work on this subject that talks about the Catholic ceremony "Marriage of Likeness" is John Boswell's THE MARRIAGE OF LIKENESS: Same-Sex Unions In Pre-Modern Europe.
 
Your surety about homosexual behavior in animals is an example of the profound ignorance that underlies the gay-hating attitude. More than 1500 species of animals exhibit homosexual bonding. Sexual orientation is a normal variation in humans and animals.

What we don't know is why, but since it is found in so many species over such a long period of time it must not be a substantial detriment to species survival, in fact it may have survival value. We do know that women who have at least one gay son average more children than women without a gay son. We also know that there is a an anti-body response in the female body that is pregnant with a male fetus and the female body attempts to feminize the male. This response varies in strength from woman to woman, but statistically speaking, the more sons a woman has the greater chance that succeeding sons will be gay as the anti-body response increases in effectiveness.

The religious argument against gay people is based on the misunderstanding of language and usage. For the first 14 centuries the Christian church did not have a problem with homosexual people--in fact they were married and blessed by God. An excellent reference work on this subject that talks about the Catholic ceremony "Marriage of Likeness" is John Boswell's THE MARRIAGE OF LIKENESS: Same-Sex Unions In Pre-Modern Europe.

Did you read Sil's post about it? I think she posted it in the prop 8 thread, I cant say that I have agreed with her on just about anything but she did have a very interesting theory and she had some examples to back it up.

I hope you get a chance to read it, I would like to hear your thoughts on what she posted about it

Crystal
 
well i don't know about whether it is genetic or not, i havn't read any statistics on that... but one of the problems if we label it genetic is that now sex offenders and child mollesters are begining to demand the same rights as gays, that its not their choice to have those desires or do those things. now while thats not justification to take rights away from gays, where are we going to draw the line? should we really sacrifice political intelligence for political correctness?
 
well i don't know about whether it is genetic or not, i havn't read any statistics on that... but one of the problems if we label it genetic is that now sex offenders and child mollesters are begining to demand the same rights as gays, that its not their choice to have those desires or do those things. now while thats not justification to take rights away from gays, where are we going to draw the line? should we really sacrifice political intelligence for political correctness?

Specious reasoning and a fallacious analogy. Our laws on sexual behavior are framed around "consenting adults" and a prohibition against hurting or damaging others. Child molesters victims are not consenting adults. We should stop regulating the sex between consenting adults.
 
well i don't know about whether it is genetic or not, i havn't read any statistics on that... but one of the problems if we label it genetic is that now sex offenders and child mollesters are begining to demand the same rights as gays, that its not their choice to have those desires or do those things. now while thats not justification to take rights away from gays, where are we going to draw the line? should we really sacrifice political intelligence for political correctness?
I'm not aware that DNA scientists have discovered the gene for sexual preference in contradiction of genetalia. Last I heard, they hadn't. Understandably, I doubt that they ever will, especially considering that I've yet to hear that they've found the specific gene (or gene combination) for sexual preference in congruence with genetalia.

I've read where some other scientists speculate that sexual preference is determined by the variables of the chemical composition of the amniotic fluid, and that it's the specific composition of the fluid that's responsible for the different growth rates of that place in the brain which appears to fairly consistently differ between homosexuals and heterosexuals. But skeptics site the inconclusive evidence, as to be conclusive, there would need to be a strong link to the cause of the specific chemical composition and proportionately high incidences of homosexuality in regions where the environment would contribute to that specific chemical composition ... and those links are missing.

I know that many people, especially of the (fundamentalist) Christian religion, think that homosexuality is a conscious choice gays/lesbians make in their pre-teens, teens, or early adulthood. But the conscious choice conclusion doesn't jibe with the consistent difference in that brain structure between heterosexuals and homosexuals, as making a choice isn't going to increase or decrease the size of that brain area.

Thus the most promising conclusion as to the cause of homosexuality remains the unconscious dynamic effect of dysfunction in the family-of-origin on the child during the first four years of post-natal life while the brain is still physically forming. The brain while developing is affected by so very many dynamics in the child's life to shape the child for later life. Considering sexuality is an interpersonal relational behavior, considering that homosexuals and heterosexuals alike claim that they didn't make a choice, that's just how they're driven, and considering that psychologists have drawn so many similar links between so many other behaviors/psychopathologies in later life and the nature of the subject's family life in the first, second, third and fourth years of the subject's life, the natural conclusion is that sexual preference is likewise affected.

Thus sexual preference is likely genetic with respect to genetalia, understandably, and then during the first four years of post-natal life an aberrant development of the brain can create a deviant conflict between drive and genetalia.

Nevertheless, a condition absent of behavior is meaningless with regard to society and law.

Law is all about behavior, not thought or drive.

Thus sex offenders and child molesters are not a problem to society as long as their aberrant deviation remains merely a thought or drive unacted upon.

But the moment such is acted upon, then it is their behavior that is judged.

And yes, "I couldn't help myself" is the sad but sometimes fairly true statement in the matter ... which is why locking people up to prevent repeat offense has merit ... followed by treatment and monitoring to insure they continue to take their medicine and/or remain isolated from likely victims.

No matter how much they couldn't help themselves, that doesn't excuse victimizing someone else.

Ultimately, the etiology of such maladies will also be found in family-of-origin dysfunction, as most currently are.

And though there is only medicinal and psychotherapy coping for the moment, prevention will be found in raising the economic standard of living for all, educating parents on proper raising of children, preventing unwanted conceptions, etc.

Regardless, the act of homosexuality is rightly not to be criminalized among consenting adults.

Nevertheless, marriage is defined as being between a man and a woman as husband and wife, and thus no matter how much gays/lesbians demand marriage, it will remain definitively inappropriate for them.

That is why it behooves us to pass laws to eliminate government and corporate bias (the foundational reason gays/lesbians are clamoring for mariage) against any and all domestic partnerships, treating non-marital domestic parterships equal with marital ones.
 
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Specious reasoning and a fallacious analogy. Our laws on sexual behavior are framed around "consenting adults" and a prohibition against hurting or damaging others. Child molesters victims are not consenting adults. We should stop regulating the sex between consenting adults.

yeah thats true, what do you think the probability is of the age of accountability being pushed back if those rights were recognized for child molesters?

something i need you guys to realize is that i'm just a high school debater, i really don't know that much, and most of what i say will obviously have little credibility and my logic will most likely be fallible sometimes, but thats why i'm here is to get a better grasp on things, so when you read what i say and think "wow what an idiot" please take this into account. i'm really not here to debate whats right or wrong, i'm here to see what everybody else thinks, and to be enlightened.

so again, please assume i know nothing at all and any and all explanations or help would be appreciated.
 
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