Is Christianity responsible for equality and liberty?

[dahermit]

This is nonsense. Christianity is still the predominant religion in the world today. It is about twice as much as the next predominant religion -- islam -- and is a firm majority in the western hemisphere.

The democracy concocted by the greeks was very different from what we know of it today. It was inevitably synthesized with early christian thought, which at the time, was the religion of slaves and the very dregs of society. Only through the ethical teachings of christianity did we gradually accept the members of the lower strata of society as having a say in political dynamics.

In the political philosophies of the west, the concept of natural law is inseparable. While natural law was first thought of by the greeks, this concept came to be used more on the natural sciences. To say that every man is equal as a consequence of natural law would have been an unthinkable outrage in classical greek thought. It was the christians who applied the concept of natural law in political philosophy.

Christian religion is 33% of the world religion. Not a simple majority. http://www.adherents.com/Religions_By_Adherents.html
Early Eastern philosophies that pre-date Christianity had many of the same tenants that the Christians claim today.

 

[dahermit]

The distinction between the political edifice of the church and the state had been made as early as the 4th century in the semi-political, semi-religious treatise civitates dei by augistine, bishop of hippo. That is one of the church's most enduring legacy to political thought.

It really isn't the problem of the church if some people, both within and outside the church, don't get it, no?

Who's problem is it then if most people within a church and the entity of the church itself does not get it?

 

[dahermit]

...The democracy concocted by the greeks was very different from what we know of it today. It was inevitably synthesized with early christian thought...

Hmmmm. Greek democracy predates Christian religion by about 500 years. They (the Greeks), must have had time machines. Unless of course, you are referring to the Old Testament as "Christan thought", then you should also include the Koran.

 

[numinus]

Christian religion is 33% of the world religion. Not a simple majority. http://www.adherents.com/Religions_By_Adherents.html
Early Eastern philosophies that pre-date Christianity had many of the same tenants that the Christians claim today.

What are you rambling about, eh? 33% IS the overwhelming majority world wide. And if you limit it in the western hemisphere alone, then that percentage would be very much higher.

You are correct though. Ethical tenets (NOT 'tenants'...duh?), are independent of religious dogma. That is a very good reason why you should treat religion and ethics differently. That is why the major religions of the world overlap as far as ethical imperatives are concerned.

Duh?

 

[numinus]

Who's problem is it then if most people within a church and the entity of the church itself does not get it?

Eh?

When the church itself teaches (as a matter of religious truth) the primacy of ONE'S OWN CONSCIENCE OVER DOGMA, whose problem do you think it is, eh? Or do you even ask yourself why people of conscience, regardless of religious affiliation, are set apart as exemplary heroes?

Uhmmm....duh?

 

[numinus]

Hmmmm. Greek democracy predates Christian religion by about 500 years. They (the Greeks), must have had time machines. Unless of course, you are referring to the Old Testament as "Christan thought", then you should also include the Koran.

What is it about what pops up in that silly head of yours that you are compelled to post in the public domain, hmmmm? It only serves to dimminish your credibility, fyi.

How the hell do you suppose christian dogma would 'synthesize' with greek thought if classical greek thought weren't already present, eh?

Uhmmmm.....duh?

 

[dahermit]

What is it about what pops up in that silly head of yours that you are compelled to post in the public domain, hmmmm? It only serves to dimminish your credibility, fyi.

How the hell do you suppose christian dogma would 'synthesize' with greek thought if classical greek thought weren't already present, eh?

Uhmmmm.....duh?

Hi numinus, I thought that you were away doing penance for all your many sins.

In regard to your last post/rant:
Then is it accurate to say that classical Greek thought is responsible for equality and liberty and not Christianity?

 

[Fisher of Men]

The "civilized world", of today includes China and Japan.

Dahermit, democracy was imposed on Japan by the U.S. China is still under the heel of an authoritarian system.

 

[Fisher of Men]

Just as with any group seeking a type of control over a group of people. (and that's all any religion really is by the way) Christianity has some nice rules to live by... and it also from time to time goes off into the zealot fundamentalist crazy zone and causes pain, death & destruction

The Crusades... burning "Witches" at the stake... helping the Nazis... pedophile preists... the list goes on & on.

People who fail to understand that the church is truly nothing more than a type of power structure really set up as an alternative to other types of government are fooling themselves.

Personally... I'll take elected officials over church hierarchy any day. They both come in good & bad but the elected official I can do something about

Top Gun you seem timid and afraid of an entirely voluntary organization. Please stop trembling. You should be more worried about the government that takes your money and coerces behavior in a thousand different ways. A politician is expert at ignoring the will of the people and enriching himself.

The Crusades were often defensive in nature. The first and most famous Crusade certainly was.

Witches were usually attacked by mobs. The Church opposed this mob action.

Priests are no more likely to molest than any other group of men.

LINK

Really your focus on anti-Catholic canards makes you look like a bigot.

 

[dahermit]

Dahermit, democracy was imposed on Japan by the U.S. China is still under the heel of an authoritarian system.

Your point is?

 

[dahermit]

Witches were usually attacked by mobs.

Ummmm. The Salem Witch "Trials".

Also, "Witches" do not exist. No one has conspired with the devil and received magical powers. However: "...suffer a witch not to live...", would seem to establish the religious foundation for torture and murder of innocent women.

Priests are no more likely to molest than any other group of men.

LINK

"catholiceducation.org" Do you have any studies from unbiased researchers?

 

[numinus]

Hi numinus, I thought that you were away doing penance for all your many sins.

Nope. Been working. Miss me? You do know some of us have better things to do than fondling cattle. Hee-haw!

In regard to your last post/rant:
Then is it accurate to say that classical Greek thought is responsible for equality and liberty and not Christianity?

No. It is not accurate at all.

The equality and liberty imagined by the classical greeks are those that result from the political association. People are equal by virtue of citizenship. One is a citizen by virtue of property.

The equality and liberty we now know is the logical conclusion of natural law. We are equal simply because we are all human beings regardless of our status within the political association.

And natural law as applied to social and political philosophy was first thought of by early christian thinkers. After all, christianity then was the religion of slaves.

Is the distinction clear enough or would you rather you fondle your cattle some more?

 

[top gun]

The distinction between the political edifice of the church and the state had been made as early as the 4th century in the semi-political, semi-religious treatise civitates dei by augistine, bishop of hippo. That is one of the church's most enduring legacy to political thought.

It really isn't the problem of the church if some people, both within and outside the church, don't get it, no?

The "church" all man made religion for that matter originated as nothing more than tribes of (compared to today) very primitive people without education nor scientific knowledge trying to explain things that they simply did not understand... things they were afraid of... and trying to set some type of order in their small societies (governing).

As the governing by Kings & Queens & Emperors was often heavy handed and unfair people often turned to those in the "church" as an alternative power. This was so common that many rulers brought in sort of a "church wing" to their own government as not to be out flanked by outside interests.

But ghosts & goblin stories are still just stories. Man made religion is set up by a leadership not elected by the people striving to have POWER over other people... and that can turn out very badly as these groups gain bravado.

Jim Jones's People's Temple in Ghana... David Koresh's Branch Davidians in Waco... the Taliban...

All I can say in great honesty is... Beware those who say they speak for God! Because the invisible and the non-existent look very much alike.

 

[Fisher of Men]

The "church" all man made religion for that matter originated as nothing more than tribes of (compared to today) very primitive people without education nor scientific knowledge trying to explain things that they simply did not understand... things they were afraid of... and trying to set some type of order in their small societies (governing).

As the governing by Kings & Queens & Emperors was often heavy handed and unfair people often turned to those in the "church" as an alternative power. This was so common that many rulers brought in sort of a "church wing" to their own government as not to be out flanked by outside interests.

But ghosts & goblin stories are still just stories. Man made religion is set up by a leadership not elected by the people striving to have POWER over other people... and that can turn out very badly as these groups gain bravado.

Jim Jones's People's Temple in Ghana... David Koresh's Branch Davidians in Waco... the Taliban...

Oh Top Gun you are a *****, I didn't understand. Jim Jones was sort of a Satanist and he went to Guyana not Ghana. ha ha ha

Haven't you heard of any secular power seekers? They can be pretty bad too. Follow the link for news about the brutality of Maoist terrorists in Nepal.

LINK

 

[Pandora]

Oh Top Gun you are a *****, I didn't understand. Jim Jones was sort of a Satanist and he went to Guyana not Ghana. ha ha ha

Haven't you heard of any secular power seekers? They can be pretty bad too. Follow the link for news about the brutality of Maoist terrorists in Nepal.

LINK

Top Gun is far left on some things and kind of in the middle on a few and even right wing on at least one topic that I know of but he is not a *****