r0beph
Well-Known Member
Oh please. First of all you violate all forms of argumentative questioning with intense fallacy. You cannot define X as not being Y, and then ask someone to give you an X that is Y. It's an impossible and circular argument. The problem with your idea here is that you're purporting that a "Code" cannot be natural (which is kind of hard to prove either way, since DNA is a chemical code of sorts, and since everything alive has DNA and it being the most likely candidate for natural code, you've cut that off at the pass, leaving no recourse for anyo9ne to argue, however this idealism is blatantly problematic) ....
So the problems here are as thus;
A) you cannot with any amount of validity state that information must be intelligent in design.
A(1): There is tons of information held within mathmatics and physics, chemistry. Of course with your reasoning, physics and chemistry are god's responsibility and I must be wrong. However let me make a quick argumentative here. ----
You state DNA is "information" and thus "Code" and cannot be natural. However one could make the same argument adversely pointing out that a sepcific mineral content is water, found only in a hypothetical certain cave, would be the information carried within this water that forms a specific type of crystalline formation using the specific minerals contained in the cave walls and their interaction with the mineral content of the water. WOOO INFORMATION? OR SIMPLY CHEMISTRY and PHYSICS? Sure DNA is complex and this example is not, but so? It took longer to form something stable such as the human genetic blueprint than it took for the minerals to saturate the underground river....your point?
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B) You fail to realize that there is much simpler life out there, Viruses with but around 10,000bp. If we must look even smaller, the (HBV) contains 3400-4100bp, which is simply insane as to how very little "information" as you put it, is represented. The problem is that you assume that since life is functional, then it must have been intelligence, since no intelligence would have just led to a pile of useless gene folded proteins floating pointlessly around in a puddle of water without so much as a hint of life. However what you're forgetting is that for every single life since the beginning (whenever that was) there's likely 10,000 million that were non functional. (arbitrary and out my ass in terms of actual numbers, but let's just say that every life has tons that failed in it's wake) since a badly structured genome would simply snuff itself out by virtue of BEING a non viable genomic mutation. You simply stray to far from how things truly work and spend too much time spazzing over someone not answering your question....
C) "A pattern is not information! Patterns can be natural, code cannot" -- You. ---- Ok I'll give that "intelligent" code isn't usually spawned naturally. The problem with what you're using this methodology to prove is that you're doing it oh so incorrectly, tons of gaping holes, and enough fallacy to keep a pathological liar complacent for years. Sure, nature doesn't create works of art, broadway musicals, the script for last weeks episode of scrubs, or a recipe for browned scalloped potatoes and poached pheasant. You're assuming that nature even has the capability to produce such things, nature cannot "write" a book, as the prerequisites are too fantastic to be realistic. What nature does provide is the informational, if you will, template of chemistry, physics, and biology. Things pretty much work as they do, because that's simply how things are. The answer to your trick question is that DNA itself is the code that nature produced. Whether a god or gods had a hand in nature, I'm not going to even begin to act as if I can answer this with any hint of truth, I do not know.
Let's define "Information"
# a message received and understood
# data: a collection of facts from which conclusions may be drawn; "statistical data"
# knowledge acquired through study or experience or instruction
# (communication theory) a numerical measure of the uncertainty of an outcome; "the signal contained thousands of bits of information"
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one could contend that DNA contains a message, that is received during transcription and so forth that makes these protein building blocks fold like we need them to. And that is very well what it is. Unlike your instructions for building a Lego Raptor Jesus, you can't fit the green blocks where the red blocks go, there is very specific and unchanging chemical interactions that will always function exactly as expected during replication. When things go wrong, it's not the fault of genetic biology, but rather something effecting or something wrong with the dna itself. The building blocks simply do what they're supposed to do, because they formed to do it, because if it DIDN'T form that way it simply COULD not exist given the manner in which physical interaction dictates. meh...you made me stop caring, I'll indulge you no further.
