Government dependence hits record

[BigRob]

The problem is the greed of the rich and big corporations who ruined our economy, and that is why there is greater dependency on basic government services.

The rich and big corporations ruined our economy? This is quite a statement that gets tossed around, and is never accompanied with any factual information.

Let's face it: capitalism just doesn't work. Capitalism is incapable of providing everyone with a job.

So what? No system is. And capitalism is the best one out there. If you have another system in mind, please present it.

I myself am a very strong supporter of the work ethic, and I believe that everyone should have the right to a job.

People have the right to go out and try to get a job on their own merit -- not the right to a job.

And I strongly believe that the politicians of both political parties and the worthless billionaires who inherited all their money need to go get a job! Let them pick up garbage off the ground for food stamps!

Those who have inherited money got it from somewhere -- most likely from a family member who through hard work became a success. Who are you to tell that person what they can and can't do with their money? If they wanted to give it to their kids -- it is no concern of yours -- if they wanted to give it to charity -- it is no concern of yours.

The rich believe in taking ever-increasing amounts of money away from the American worker.

How exactly is this occurring?

The rich people, and the big corporations, and the politicians of both political parties are engaged in a class war against the American people. Many American people have lost their jobs and they lost their homes. The banks, who are stealing American homes, are nothing more than thieves!

If you borrow money and do not pay it back -- you don't get to keep the item you bought with that money. The only thief in this scenario is the person living in a house that they are not paying for.

When are we going to end this insanity? The rich people in our country keep getting richer and the working people who are actually doing the work are getting poorer.

It is not insanity -- and the idea that rich people don't work is laughable.

The right-wingers argue that the rich people don't have enough money, the right-wingers want more money for the rich.

No -- you misrepesent the entire position. Republicans want lower taxes for all -- since the "rich" pay most of the taxes, obviously they get a bigger benefit (in terms of dollars only) when those taxes fall. However -- Bush cut taxes for all people -- Even Obama campaigned to extend tax cuts for 95% of working Americans -- many of these cuts came from the Bush tax cuts.

Personally I feel that the American worker is entitled to good union wages and excellent union benefits like a good pension when he gets older. But the right-wingers disagree.

We saw a recent example of how that ends --- GM.

Instead, the right-wingers want to take away our unions, they want to take away our good wages, they want to take away our pensions, and now they want to take away our Social Security so that they can fund their bailout programs for the rich.

Again laughable -- and you might examine the voting records of who all was voting for bailouts -- it was a ton of Democrats as well.

Because let's face it the rich people made out like bandits! They got nearly $1 trillion of the taxpayers money and bailouts. The rich people are eating caviar and champagne on the taxpayers dime. It's the rich people who are dependent on the taxpayers money!

Here is a plan - let capitalism work -- and DON'T BAIL THEM OUT.

Don't subvert the very premise of capitalism and then point to your work as an example of it failing.

 

[dogtowner]

The disgrace is that the banks were not made to suffer the result of bad lending practices.

vexing situation...
the government created the environment that caused this to happen and given the results of the bailouts it might have worked equally well or better letting them run through Chapter 11. the pain would have been sharper but the rebound quicker. softening the blow is not always a good thing. lessons are not learned.

 

[cashmcall]

I must have missed something, because I sure never thought you were Australian! Australians are generally more down to earth and more logical than your type.
And, your comment about "looting the Capitalist system" makes no sense.
But. . .go ahead. . .whatever you say is moot anyway.

I will have you know some people find me charming..I hate to tell you where i'm from, so I won't!

 

[cashmcall]

The rich and big corporations ruined our economy? This is quite a statement that gets tossed around, and is never accompanied with any factual information.



So what? No system is. And capitalism is the best one out there. If you have another system in mind, please present it.



People have the right to go out and try to get a job on their own merit -- not the right to a job.



Those who have inherited money got it from somewhere -- most likely from a family member who through hard work became a success. Who are you to tell that person what they can and can't do with their money? If they wanted to give it to their kids -- it is no concern of yours -- if they wanted to give it to charity -- it is no concern of yours.



How exactly is this occurring?



If you borrow money and do not pay it back -- you don't get to keep the item you bought with that money. The only thief in this scenario is the person living in a house that they are not paying for.



It is not insanity -- and the idea that rich people don't work is laughable.



No -- you misrepesent the entire position. Republicans want lower taxes for all -- since the "rich" pay most of the taxes, obviously they get a bigger benefit (in terms of dollars only) when those taxes fall. However -- Bush cut taxes for all people -- Even Obama campaigned to extend tax cuts for 95% of working Americans -- many of these cuts came from the Bush tax cuts.



We saw a recent example of how that ends --- GM.



Again laughable -- and you might examine the voting records of who all was voting for bailouts -- it was a ton of Democrats as well.



Here is a plan - let capitalism work -- and DON'T BAIL THEM OUT.

Don't subvert the very premise of capitalism and then point to your work as an example of it failing.

very well said...

 

[cashmcall]

I thought you would get a kick out of that one..

 

[WolfLarsen]

I simply just disagree with the conservative posters on this thread. I believe that unless you are disabled or you are a college student you should be working. I just don't understand why the American worker should support a wealthy class of people who inherited their money and do not work.

I simply very strongly believe in the work ethic. I believe that everyone should get up in the morning and go to a job, unless they are disabled or studying. I see no reason why rich people should not get up in the morning and go to work just like everyone else.

I do not believe that trading in derivatives and ruining the economy in the process is a real job. Eating caviar and drinking champagne on the taxpayers dime (bailouts) is not a job description either. All I'm saying is that the rich people need to get a job. Maybe they can flip hamburgers.

I fail to understand these right-wingers who call unemployed Americans lazy and then become upset when someone suggests that everyone should have the right to a job. To me that seems hypocritical.

In addition, it seems hypocritical to call unemployed Americans lazy and then defend the "right" of rich billionaires who inherited their money to sit around and do nothing while other people work.

Unemployed Americans are not lazy. They want work! The sad fact the capitalists like unemployment. That way, they can make their workers slave away for less money.

There is also the matter of taxes. I think it's time for the rich people and the big corporations to start paying taxes. It's just absolutely scandalous that the rich people and the big corporations are not paying any taxes. They are freeloaders.

 

[dogtowner]

I simply just disagree with the conservative posters on this thread. I believe that unless you are disabled or you are a college student you should be working. I just don't understand why the American worker should support a wealthy class of people who inherited their money and do not work.

I simply very strongly believe in the work ethic. I believe that everyone should get up in the morning and go to a job, unless they are disabled or studying. I see no reason why rich people should not get up in the morning and go to work just like everyone else.

I do not believe that trading in derivatives and ruining the economy in the process is a real job. Eating caviar and drinking champagne on the taxpayers dime (bailouts) is not a job description either. All I'm saying is that the rich people need to get a job. Maybe they can flip hamburgers.

I fail to understand these right-wingers who call unemployed Americans lazy and then become upset when someone suggests that everyone should have the right to a job. To me that seems hypocritical.

In addition, it seems hypocritical to call unemployed Americans lazy and then defend the "right" of rich billionaires who inherited their money to sit around and do nothing while other people work.

Unemployed Americans are not lazy. They want work! The sad fact the capitalists like unemployment. That way, they can make their workers slave away for less money.

There is also the matter of taxes. I think it's time for the rich people and the big corporations to start paying taxes. It's just absolutely scandalous that the rich people and the big corporations are not paying any taxes. They are freeloaders.

nobody disputes that you believe what you believe, the question is how to accomplish it. jiobs, like any other marketplace are driven by demand. Demand is low so unemployment is high.

you might benefit from following a rich person around for a week if you don't feel they work.

some unemployed are lazy others not, no escaping the bell curve.

rich people pay inordinately higher taxes as was shown around here a short while back.

 

[Openmind]

nobody disputes that you believe what you believe, the question is how to accomplish it. jiobs, like any other marketplace are driven by demand. Demand is low so unemployment is high.

you might benefit from following a rich person around for a week if you don't feel they work.

some unemployed are lazy others not, no escaping the bell curve.

rich people pay inordinately higher taxes as was shown around here a short while back.

First time you recognise that it is the DEMAND economy that drives the market, and NOT the supply economy!

Read your own post, you might learn somethin.

And, since you're NOT one of those wealthy person. . .how do you know what they do with their day in between playing golf and discussing how to screw the middle class over a few martinis at "the 19th hole?"

Rich people pay a lot of tax in term of DOLLARS, NOT in term o percentage of their income.

Proportionally, poor and middle class people pay a LOT more taxes than the wealthy. Once again. . .we shouldn't be looking at how many dollars we pay in tax, we should be looking at how many dollars we take home to help our family LIVE.

 

[Openmind]

I will have you know some people find me charming..I hate to tell you where i'm from, so I won't!

And, guess what. . .a lot of people (even hard core Republicans in the hell hole of luxury where I live) find me charming also. . .that doesn't mean they think I make sense, or that they won't go back home and get brainwashed by Fox and Limbaugh

But. . .I believe we are disgressing. . .and our Newbie mod may ding us for not staying focused on the OP!

 

[Arbopa]

I just don't understand why the American worker should support a wealthy class of people who inherited their money and do not work.

Huh? Oh, left wing talking point. Got it.

If you go take a look at #'s, you will see there are many, many, many, more people that are on the government dole, that do not work, than there are rich people that 'do not work'. Just sayin'.

There is also the matter of taxes. I think it's time for the rich people and the big corporations to start paying taxes. It's just absolutely scandalous that the rich people and the big corporations are not paying any taxes. They are freeloaders.

Huh? Oh, ANOTHER left wing talking point.

 

[Arbopa]

Rich people pay a lot of tax in term of DOLLARS, NOT in term o percentage of their income.

Proportionally, poor and middle class people pay a LOT more taxes than the wealthy. Once again. . .we shouldn't be looking at how many dollars we pay in tax, we should be looking at how many dollars we take home to help our family LIVE.

More liberal talking point babble....

Love that last bit, twist as one may in order to justify the confiscation of wealth from those detested (even though that is based on falsehoods)...

 

[dogtowner]

First time you recognise that it is the DEMAND economy that drives the market, and NOT the supply economy!

Read your own post, you might learn somethin.

And, since you're NOT one of those wealthy person. . .how do you know what they do with their day in between playing golf and discussing how to screw the middle class over a few martinis at "the 19th hole?"

Rich people pay a lot of tax in term of DOLLARS, NOT in term o percentage of their income.

Proportionally, poor and middle class people pay a LOT more taxes than the wealthy. Once again. . .we shouldn't be looking at how many dollars we pay in tax, we should be looking at how many dollars we take home to help our family LIVE.

Well if you knew rich people you wold know that they are hardly a pack of Thurston Howell III's.

As shown in other posts, your assertion re taxes is simply wrong.

Supply and demand, they go hand in hand. You're an econ, you know this. Right ?

 

[GenSeneca]

From the OP:

One in five Americans — or slightly more than 67 million — now relies on federal assistance, at a cost of $2.5 billion annually. That’s the highest in the country’s history, the authors wrote. The index also found that Americans who depend on federal assistance receive an average of $32,748 in benefits, about $300 more than the nation’s average disposable personal income.​

Overall, about 70 percent of the federal government’s budget is directed to individual assistance programs. And nearly half of the population, or 49.5 percent, don’t pay any federal income taxes, according to the survey.​

​

Let's review some facts that are capable of being supported with empirical data: The "rich" pay the majority of income taxes. The "poor", while completely exempted from paying income taxes, are the greatest beneficiaries of the income tax system. Despite these irrefutable facts, some of our forum members are still trying to claim that the system works in the exact opposite direction; that it's the "poor" who are paying all the income taxes while the "rich" have exempted themselves from paying these taxes while simultaneously reaping all the benefits from those who do. Reality is a very stubborn thing...

I'd like to point out that as one of the 50.5% of people who actually does pay income taxes, as someone who works 56-63 hours a week between two jobs and earns substantially LESS than what the average person on government assistance receives in benefits, as someone who neither seeks nor accepts government assistance of any kind, I find it entirely absurd that Colleftivists insist that somehow the "poor" are the victims, the "poor" are the ones being taken advantage of, that the "poor" actually deserve even MORE of my hard earned money, and that I'm a heartless bastard for not eagerly allowing myself to be bled dry by the government.

“I work for nothing but my own profit, which I make by selling a product they need to men who are willing and able to buy it. I do not produce it for their benefit at the expense of mine, and they do not buy it for my benefit at the expense of theirs. . . . I made my money by my own effort, in free exchange and through the voluntary consent of every man I dealt with. . . . I refuse to apologize for my ability—I refuse to apologize for my success—I refuse to apologize for my money.” - Hank Rearden, Atlas Shrugged​

 

[Openmind]

Well if you knew rich people you wold know that they are hardly a pack of Thurston Howell III's.

As shown in other posts, your assertion re taxes is simply wrong.

Supply and demand, they go hand in hand. You're an econ, you know this. Right ?

It is BECAUSE I know (and have known) wealthy people that I know how many of them act, and how they spend their days.

Your stating that my assertions re: taxes is wrong doesn't make it so.

Obviously supply and demand goes hand in hand, DUH!

But the difference is that you are a supply side believer, and I am a demand side believer. You believe that it makes sense to cut tax for the wealthy because they would then "create jobs" and thus there would be more work available, less unemployment, and thus people would have more money and would spend more creating more demand.

I believe that, UNLESS the demand exists, there is no need to create more products, therefore there is no need to hire more people to create those products, and it doesn't matter how much money you throw at the "supposed job creators," they will not create jobs!

You believe in "trickle down" economy, and I believe that a healthy economy doesn't come from a minority of wealthy people sprinkling a little of their wealth down, but from a large majority of poor and middle class people having enough money to meet their survival needs first, and then their "wants" which then creaetes the demand for more products, and leads to more employments which ALSO benefits the wealthy.

 

[Arbopa]

It is BECAUSE I know (and have known) wealthy people that I know how many of them act, and how they spend their days.

Well, then this whole thing is settled science then, isn't it?

Good to know you know all the wealthy and exactly how they all act... Now we know a point of contact if we ever want to get in touch with a wealthy person.