% of us paying taxes now 49.65 in '84 14.8

[Dr.Who]

somebody remind me how the po folks are having all their money transferred to the rich again ?

It does indeed happen but not the way many imagine. You may commonly hear that rich corporations are stealing from the poor but the reality is that the game has been rigged in a collusion of corporations and government that results in higher prices, which of course hurts the poor.

Imagine how much lower prices could be if silly regulations were eliminated, if corporate taxes were the same as individual taxes, if shareholders did not pay tax on money that was already taxed, if laws were not created to suppress competition...

As a rough guess everything would cost half as much. Employment would be higher, The US would be much more competitive worldwide, new industries would exist and would spur the economy, more people would be business owners rather than mindless workers...

Are greedy corporations stealing from the poor? Well, yes but only so much as they have help from congress. Restore competition on a level playing field and we will have real prosperity for all.

 

[dogtowner]

It does indeed happen but not the way many imagine. You may commonly hear that rich corporations are stealing from the poor but the reality is that the game has been rigged in a collusion of corporations and government that results in higher prices, which of course hurts the poor.

Imagine how much lower prices could be if silly regulations were eliminated, if corporate taxes were the same as individual taxes, if shareholders did not pay tax on money that was already taxed, if laws were not created to suppress competition...

As a rough guess everything would cost half as much. Employment would be higher, The US would be much more competitive worldwide, new industries would exist and would spur the economy, more people would be business owners rather than mindless workers...

Are greedy corporations stealing from the poor? Well, yes but only so much as they have help from congress. Restore competition on a level playing field and we will have real prosperity for all.

I'll accept that govt interference in the free market drives costs up. but even rich people are hit with this artificial component and much of the extra costs are not skimmed to benefit the rich but rather bureaucracy.

but I'd love to see free markets or something closer to fee markets.

 

[dogtowner]

It is a disgrace. Everyone should have 'skin in the game'. And if your 'refund' is more than you paid in, then your total due back should be set to 'ZERO'.

yes everyone should pay something and noone should get paid to pay no taxes.

 

[Dr.Who]

I'll accept that govt interference in the free market drives costs up. but even rich people are hit with this artificial component and much of the extra costs are not skimmed to benefit the rich but rather bureaucracy.

but I'd love to see free markets or something closer to fee markets.

I would love to see markets that are regulated only to the extent that rights are protected. Constitutional regulations to protect rights could be vast and far reaching even. All other regulations do far more damage than good and are often created simply to help bureaucrats and their friends.

Is a company harming people through pollution? Then smack them so hard they stop even if that means they stop being a company. Is it a company that produces the power we all need? Then that is the true cost of the power. If it means that alternative energy becomes more popular then at least real market forces are the impetus. But lets not look the other way and lets not give subsidies to anyone at all.

 

[dogtowner]

I would love to see markets that are regulated only to the extent that rights are protected. Constitutional regulations to protect rights could be vast and far reaching even. All other regulations do far more damage than good and are often created simply to help bureaucrats and their friends.

Is a company harming people through pollution? Then smack them so hard they stop even if that means they stop being a company. Is it a company that produces the power we all need? Then that is the true cost of the power. If it means that alternative energy becomes more popular then at least real market forces are the impetus. But lets not look the other way and lets not give subsidies to anyone at all.

preaching to the choir.

 

[pocketfullofshells]

People paying...one tax....and ignoring the other taxes that they pay,,

I keep forgetting you want lower taxes right? but are not bitching that you want to raise them on 50% of people....make up your mind...not that Republicans ever cared if they said they where for 2 things that where went against each other...Just pick and choose what fits you for that issue..

 

[dogtowner]

People paying...one tax....and ignoring the other taxes that they pay,,

I keep forgetting you want lower taxes right? but are not bitching that you want to raise them on 50% of people....make up your mind...not that Republicans ever cared if they said they where for 2 things that where went against each other...Just pick and choose what fits you for that issue..

just want to make it fair and we want to lower taxes in part to spur growth and in part to shrink the government to do the same.

 

[pocketfullofshells]

just want to make it fair and we want to lower taxes in part to spur growth and in part to shrink the government to do the same.

Mitt payed a lower percent them me last year....so can't call that fair...so his taxes must be raised to make that fair...you also want to raise taxes then on about 50% of Americans...How is this lowering taxes..and being fair?

Also is making someone who makes 10,000 a year with 2 kids....pay even a 10% tax...unfair to someone like Mitt who paid 15%? Also what about all those Companies that made huge amounts and paid no taxes ( feel free to say GE...but you know there are many more) are you going to raise taxes on them as well?

seems your lower taxes and Fair taxes...will only end up being lower for the Rich...but higher for the rest...Not what I call Fair.

 

[Arbopa]

Mitt payed a lower percent them me last year....so can't call that fair...so his taxes must be raised to make that fair...you also want to raise taxes then on about 50% of Americans...How is this lowering taxes..and being fair?

Do you have proof of this?

 

[pocketfullofshells]

Do you have proof of this?

what do you want me to do, post my taxes for you? Mitt has come out saying he paid 15% , it was in allt he news...hard to miss.

 

[dogtowner]

Mitt payed a lower percent them me last year....so can't call that fair...so his taxes must be raised to make that fair...you also want to raise taxes then on about 50% of Americans...How is this lowering taxes..and being fair?

Also is making someone who makes 10,000 a year with 2 kids....pay even a 10% tax...unfair to someone like Mitt who paid 15%? Also what about all those Companies that made huge amounts and paid no taxes ( feel free to say GE...but you know there are many more) are you going to raise taxes on them as well?

seems your lower taxes and Fair taxes...will only end up being lower for the Rich...but higher for the rest...Not what I call Fair.

paying something is fair paying nothing or being paid to pay nothing is not fair. besides people making 10k represents few. if you paid >15% you really must get a better tax preparer. I'm not even close to that. If Mitt is paying that much its only because he wants toto look better to voters.

the tax code is odd and yes there are others that pay nothing ut they udes legal deductions to do it and that is generally intended to focus on helping them expand or shore up weakness or purchase durable goods.

bt you cant talk about fair when you want more from some and less for others.

 

[Arbopa]

what do you want me to do, post my taxes for you? Mitt has come out saying he paid 15% , it was in allt he news...hard to miss.

If you want to validate you claim.

Of course a lot goes into what the tax rate is. Are you a millionaire that makes most of your money off capital gains? It's going to be lower than if you earned that money as a salary... all bits people like to leave out of the whole 'rich people don't pay enough' fallacy.

 

[pocketfullofshells]

If you want to validate you claim.

Of course a lot goes into what the tax rate is. Are you a millionaire that makes most of your money off capital gains? It's going to be lower than if you earned that money as a salary... all bits people like to leave out of the whole 'rich people don't pay enough' fallacy.

No I am not, no I don't make money off Capital Gains...see I do this thing where I actually go to work, and I actually work...And thats the point...Money made by Rich people is not taxes like it use to be...meaning that there overall tax Rate is lower...and I have a hard time saying that a person making 500 Million a year, should pay a lower percent of his taxes then a guy working hard and making 30,000 a year ( no I make more then 30,000 I just use that as a example) Capital Gains taxes use to be much higher...they where lowered ( of course no spending was offset to make up lost income...raising debt)

 

[pocketfullofshells]

paying something is fair paying nothing or being paid to pay nothing is not fair. besides people making 10k represents few. if you paid >15% you really must get a better tax preparer. I'm not even close to that. If Mitt is paying that much its only because he wants toto look better to voters.

the tax code is odd and yes there are others that pay nothing ut they udes legal deductions to do it and that is generally intended to focus on helping them expand or shore up weakness or purchase durable goods.

bt you cant talk about fair when you want more from some and less for others.

so a Billionaire...who has more money then the last 7 or 8 combined...said he paid a lower tax rate...because he wants look good?

so what you are saying now is...you pay less then 15% in taxes...and that you think its odd I do...( with no idea what my income is of course)...but yet taxes are just way to high...yet you seem be be saying half don't pay any...and the rest pay less then 15%...so what is low enough...half a percent?

 

[GenSeneca]

Mitt payed a lower percent them me last year....so can't call that fair...so his taxes must be raised to make that fair...you also want to raise taxes then on about 50% of Americans...How is this lowering taxes..and being fair?

Also is making someone who makes 10,000 a year with 2 kids....pay even a 10% tax...unfair to someone like Mitt who paid 15%? Also what about all those Companies that made huge amounts and paid no taxes ( feel free to say GE...but you know there are many more) are you going to raise taxes on them as well?

seems your lower taxes and Fair taxes...will only end up being lower for the Rich...but higher for the rest...Not what I call Fair.

As usual, your definition of "Fair" is different from the dictionary definition: Fair - Without bias or discrimination. A 15% flat tax is Fair, everyone pays the exact same %, a Progressive tax uses bias and discrimination, i.e., it is not Fair.

Let's say you did have an effective tax rate of 15%... You would have had to make about 45,800 that year, 5800 is the standard deduction, you need to have 40k left in taxable income to reach an effective rate of 15%, so you would pay $6k in taxes. Mitt paid 15% as well... What was it... $3 million in taxes? So in one year of paying taxes, Mitt has paid what will take you 500 years to match. So even if we went to a 15% flat tax, the "rich" would still pay more than everyone else in terms of actual dollars but at least the tax code would be fair - without bias or discrimination.

 

[Gipper]

There can be no doubt...leftists define 'fairness' as something only they understand.

This from BO's recent campaign speech:

These are things we can do today. It shouldn’t be that difficult. Now, whenever Congress refuses to act, Joe and I, we're going to act. (Applause.) In the months to come, wherever we have an opportunity, we're going to take steps on our own to keep this economy moving. Because we've got a choice right now. We can either settle for a country where a few people are doing very well and everybody else is having to just struggle to get by, or we can build an economy where everybody gets a fair shot, and everybody is doing their fair share, and everybody is taking responsibility, and everybody is playing by the same set of rules. And that's the economy that I want. http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2012/02/21/remarks-president-payroll-tax-cut

There is so much wrong with that little paragraph. First, he has no right under the law, to act without the Congress. We are a representative republic not a dictatorship...but sadly that ship has sailed. Second, he thinks confiscating the wealth of the wealthy and giving it to government provides the non-wealthy a fair shot at success. How? This is the thinking of the leftist. And of course, it is foolishness. Giving government more money does not help anyone but government. And thirdly, he thinks this is fair. It is the opposite of fair....but in the Age of Ignorance (Age of Liberalism) it passes for fair.