God is responsible for all the bad stuff that happens

I know you aren't as ignorant as your posts suggest. Many traits are not single gene dependent, some are complexes of genes working synergistically and we are nowhere near teasing out all those combinations. Your insistence on a sound byte genetic answer is a debating technique since you know better than that.

So by all means, state the 'complexes of genes working synergistically'.

And since, by your own admission, we are nowhere near identifying them, wouldn't it be prudent, from a purely academic perspective, to defer any conclusions until then?

Clearly, you have endeavored in a scientific debate and you are up $hit creek without a paddle.

Once again, you aren't as stupid as your post suggests, why keep up the pretense?

Because you are agitating for a law whose basis is entirely dependent on speculations of what science may or may not prove.

Surely, the only one keeping up pretenses of being stupid is you.

Maybe where you are that's true, but in the US marriage is a legal contract as set forth in US law and a "legal" commited, loving relationship IS dependent on a marriage contract.

Nonsense. I have already mentioned the legal basis of marriage in the un declaration of human rights -- the same declaration the us is a signatory of and the same declaration that brought about various international conventions the us is legally bound to.

Surely, it is supreme idiocy to rant about your relative nonsense on matters of human rights and law.

Once again, your mouth precedes your brain. Lots of gay couples have children in the US, the difference is that--like hetero couples who use artificial means--gays don't abort their children because they work very hard to have them in the first place. Only heteros consider babies as a disposable product.

Of course. A woman's right to motherhood is inalienable after all.

The consequence, of course, is that the woman who concieved the child is the child's mother by right. Obviously, one cannot say the same about homosexual men, now, can they?

So which country do you live in, Nums?

I'd rather not say, given your tendencies to work yourself up to a sexual frenzy.

Have you ever been to the US?

No. I have intentions to visit it someday, though. My sister lives there.
 
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You are the perfect Bible-beater, always proclaiming in CAPITALS what you say are the universal laws of Creation.

That's because the principle of excluded middle is universal within the domain of logic.

The fact that you have to have a bunch of nomadic, goatherder blather to help you understand Jesus' commandment is your failing and not one shared by all of us. Dr. Who seems to know what it means, I suspect Andy does too. I've asked a number of my Christian friends and acquaintances and all of them know what it means without reference to goatherder blather.

Of course they know what it means. After all, they are sensible enough to know its context.

Duh?

Are you really arguing that you can't love your own children without the Old Testament context to help you figure it out? You can't love your siblings without it? You can't love yourself? Well, okay, I can see why you wouldn't love yourself, but... what about other people?

The old testament provides the millieu in which jesus handed those commandments. He isn't the jewish messiah (within the context of the word). He is an entirely different messiah.

And because he isn't the messiah the jews think he ought to be, then his commandment is entirely applicable to my children, my siblings, myself and the people who populate the sphere of my live.

So, when some jew decides to love his fellow jews by killing muslims, I instantly know that this jew is following mare's commandment of love, not jesus'.

Duh?

You've set up an argument that even YOU wouldn't support if you hadn't thought it up.

How can anyone support an argument devoid of context, hmmm? Clearly, you are infatuated with the dung beetles you consort with.
 
So by all means, state the 'complexes of genes working synergistically'. And since, by your own admission, we are nowhere near identifying them, wouldn't it be prudent, from a purely academic perspective, to defer any conclusions until then? Clearly, you have endeavored in a scientific debate and you are up $hit creek without a paddle.
Because you are agitating for a law whose basis is entirely dependent on speculations of what science may or may not prove.
So I looked you up and you live in Elbownia and that's why you write some of the numb stuff you do. You see, Nums, in the US a person is innocent until proven guilty, so gay people should be given the same rights as everyone else like it says to do in the American Constutition. It's up to the haters like you and Who to prove that gays are in some way inferior and thus deserving of 2nd class status. To date no one has been able to make a valid argument for denying gay people equal rights. Only religious dogma and the hatred of people like you are fueling the anti-gay movement.

Nonsense. I have already mentioned the legal basis of marriage in the un declaration of human rights -- the same declaration the us is a signatory of and the same declaration that brought about various international conventions the us is legally bound to.Surely, it is supreme idiocy to rant about your relative nonsense on matters of human rights and law. Of course. A woman's right to motherhood is inalienable after all. The consequence, of course, is that the woman who concieved the child is the child's mother by right. Obviously, one cannot say the same about homosexual men, now, can they?

Your oft-repeated references to the UDHR fail to allow for the fact that the UDHR does not supercede US law--something about which you appear to be woefully uninformed. As I noted to your partner in crime, 10 million children have been or are being raised by gay couples in the US and they deserve the same legal protections that are afforded to the rest of the children and families.
 
That's because the principle of excluded middle is universal within the domain of logic.
And baloney, no matter how thinnly sliced, is STILL baloney. You don't speak for God anymore than I do.

Of course they know what it means. After all, they are sensible enough to know its context.
Christian or not, you are still the only person who has had a problem with the scripture, I'm beginning to think you are one of the dead-end boys.

The old testament provides the millieu in which jesus handed those commandments. He isn't the jewish messiah (within the context of the word). He is an entirely different messiah.

And because he isn't the messiah the jews think he ought to be, then his commandment is entirely applicable to my children, my siblings, myself and the people who populate the sphere of my live.

So, when some jew decides to love his fellow jews by killing muslims, I instantly know that this jew is following mare's commandment of love, not jesus'. How can anyone support an argument devoid of context, hmmm? Clearly, you are infatuated with the dung beetles you consort with.
More proof of your inability to understand the commandment, I've not advocated killing anyone. You seem really confused, Nums, maybe the Pope can explain things to you. Watch out what you ask for, Nums, if we all stop consorting with dung beetles you're gonna get pretty lonely.
 
you people don't get it do you? ... God is not about Hocus Pocus on your beckoning call.

... and until you figure out that the Holy Books were written MANY years ago (back when things like cells, atom's, and other microscopic things were unknown by meager humans) and they had no reasonable reference to describe the visions they saw - you will never understand the actual significance of these sources of wisdom and significance.

Common all you scientists ... figure this out since you people are so self consumed with gloating narcissism - why isn't the common cold successfully cured?

... you can't cure a cold and STILL ... you think you know the depth of a higher being which created a universe you have never found the end of as of yet?

Get over your trinkets of knowledge you pion quark's of meager information!
 
you people don't get it do you? ... God is not about Hocus Pocus on your beckoning call.

... and until you figure out that the Holy Books were written MANY years ago (back when things like cells, atom's, and other microscopic things were unknown by meager humans) and they had no reasonable reference to describe the visions they saw - you will never understand the actual significance of these sources of wisdom and significance.

Common all you scientists ... figure this out since you people are so self consumed with gloating narcissism - why isn't the common cold successfully cured?

... you can't cure a cold and STILL ... you think you know the depth of a higher being which created a universe you have never found the end of as of yet?

Get over your trinkets of knowledge you pion quark's of meager information!

Riiiiiiiiiight...:rolleyes:

The obviously logical thing to do is to not look at the provable chain of scientific knowledge that we have constructed by research, experiment and education and just jump backward to Witch Doctors , ghosts & goblins.


Are you related to Miss Wasilla by any chance?

 
Riiiiiiiiiight...:rolleyes:

The obviously logical thing to do is to not look at the provable chain of scientific knowledge that we have constructed by research, experiment and education and just jump backward to Witch Doctors , ghosts & goblins.

Are you related to Miss Wasilla by any chance?
How can you insinuate that something like the Bible is wrong when you do NOT know squat about it???

You are nothing short of a clueless child with the inability to objectively understand my previous post.

.... and who the "F" is Miss Wasilla?
UNLIKE YOU ... I learn about what I speak of ... I do NOT believe people because they claim to know so much ...

IF you were actually able to pay attention to FACTS and not into the destruction of the last truly free nation on the planet - you would not be one of those foolish clowns who supported Obie!
 
How can you insinuate that something like the Bible is wrong when you do NOT know squat about it???

You are nothing short of a clueless child with the inability to objectively understand my previous post.

.... and who the "F" is Miss Wasilla?
UNLIKE YOU ... I learn about what I speak of ... I do NOT believe people because they claim to know so much ...

IF you were actually able to pay attention to FACTS and not into the destruction of the last truly free nation on the planet - you would not be one of those foolish clowns who supported Obie!

I gather that I too missed the point of your first post. Miss Wasilla refers to your friend and mine, the world-famous moose hunter and Russian-watcher, Sarah Palin.

My study of the Bible started with my growing up in the Christian church and has continued throughout my life. I didn't see anything in your post that made a statement about the contents of the Bible in relation to any specific point made by another poster. What was the intent of you post?

There were only two options for President: McBush or Obie, no one else had a chance. Was it foolish to vote for the one that seemed best at the time? And do you still feel that McBush would have been the better choice? Or are you trying to make some other somewhat obscure point that I am missing since I'm a "foolish clown"?

It often puzzles me why people make such cryptic posts that it isn't clear what they are trying to say.
 
I gather that I too missed the point of your first post. Miss Wasilla refers to your friend and mine, the world-famous moose hunter and Russian-watcher, Sarah Palin.

oh ... her! at least she REALLY does hunt and wasn't a Harvard (as in the VERY BEST alleged education -and people ask whats wrong with the education in THIS COUNTRY :eek:) Law GRAD who had been in 57 states with 3 more to go to!

My study of the Bible started with my growing up in the Christian church
... thats the problem.
church is business ... and has as much value as pharmaceuticals that con people into using stuff that poisons them!

In my opinion - they are a MASSIVE part of the problem in our society ...
2Th 3:8 Neither did we eat any man's bread for nought; but wrought with labour and travail night and day, that we might not be chargeable to any of you:

No one as of yet can explain WHY we have food pantries when people are healthy enough to stand in lines for hours and still are not asked to do SOMETHING reasonable for the food they get.
Lev 23:22And when ye reap the harvest of your land, thou shalt not make clean riddance of the corners of thy field when thou reapest, neither shalt thou gather any gleaning of thy harvest: thou shalt leave them unto the poor, and to the stranger: I [am] the LORD your God.
and back in the day they were NOT just handed bags and boxes of food - they actually had to do some work to get it.

ALL THE FREE HANDOUTS ... now people EXPECT it ... so much for the speech President Kennedy has been quoted as saying ..
... ask NOT what your country can do for you ...
and has continued throughout my life. I didn't see anything in your post that made a statement about the contents of the Bible in relation to any specific point made by another poster. What was the intent of you post?

the blind can't see ...
you people don't get it do you? ... God is not about Hocus Pocus on your beckoning call.
too many people are like Janis Joplin ...
"Oh Lord Won't You Buy Me A Mercedes Benz"
that is a very small part of the way that todays type of religious concept has screwed up this country!

There were only two options for President: McBush or Obie, no one else had a chance.
sad - isn't it?

Was it foolish to vote for the one that seemed best at the time? And do you still feel that McBush would have been the better choice?

picking a little Bush was like stepping in a pile of cow droppings - real BAD choice!
picking Obie was like falling head first in a dump truck full of cow droppings

Or are you trying to make some other somewhat obscure point that I am missing since I'm a "foolish clown"?
hmm ... okay ... so you like the HELP THE POOR sack of dung who has done more of what Bush did? Spend Spend Spend ... in the WRONG direction?
Bush bailed the oil and Obie bailed banks and Oils buddy the auto ... and this is FINE with YOU??

Why didn't ANYONE see (and fix) the real problem that caused this mess??

It often puzzles me why people make such cryptic posts that it isn't clear what they are trying to say.

It's cryptic if you fail to see the problem with the choice ... to me it is as clear as can be and too easy to see! I have tried too many times to show points that NO ONE ever wants to look at because they are the product of the PROBLEM and unable to see the real solution!

I bet you do NOT see the problem with increase in minimum wage too - huh?
 
How can you insinuate that something like the Bible is wrong when you do NOT know squat about it???

You are nothing short of a clueless child with the inability to objectively understand my previous post.

Riiiiiiight....:rolleyes:

All that being brought up as a Christian... going to all that Sunday School in the summer... all that going with my family almost every Sunday to Our Savior Lutheran Church right across the street from my home growing up from elementary school through high school... the research I did on Religions of the World for college papers...

and now with 52 years of life experiences I certainly can't draw a straight line to fables & man made religious nonsense.


.... and who the "F" is Miss Wasilla?
UNLIKE YOU ... I learn about what I speak of ... I do NOT believe people because they claim to know so much ...

There ya go! Just when I thought I might have to research ya a little to prove you're clueless even on current events... ya help me out and hand it to me. Try Google... I think she had something to do with some recent political campaign.:D

IF you were actually able to pay attention to FACTS and not into the destruction of the last truly free nation on the planet - you would not be one of those foolish clowns who supported Obie!

Obie??? Oh you mean Obi Wan Kenobi... yeah he kicked your Evil Empire Darth Cheney neo-con ass didn't he...:D

 
picking a little Bush was like stepping in a pile of cow droppings - real BAD choice!
picking Obie was like falling head first in a dump truck full of cow droppings
All I had to go on is what the candidates said, McBush said he'd continue George's policies while Obie said he would not. Unfortunately, in the end I don't think the two of them would have done differently in any significant way. To say that you knew in advance what would happen is perhaps disingenuous since we cannot KNOW the future. In retrospect I can't see that one is better than the other as your similie implies.

hmm ... okay ... so you like the HELP THE POOR sack of dung who has done more of what Bush did? Spend Spend Spend ... in the WRONG direction?
Bush bailed the oil and Obie bailed banks and Oils buddy the auto ... and this is FINE with YOU??

Why didn't ANYONE see (and fix) the real problem that caused this mess??
Your answer here suggests that you see the problem (but you don't define it) and that you have the answer for it. It also suggests that we have only ONE problem, which I think is incorrect. I see all kinds of problems, I agree with your position on organized religion, but that's only one problem--or one aspect of the larger problem.

I find that I end up objecting to most of the stuff the government does. You talk like Obie is the first one to spend, spend, spend, when in fact he is doing what all the rest have done. Of course I object to it, so what? My objections, my votes, my letters, and my phone calls have never made any difference.

It's cryptic if you fail to see the problem with the choice ... to me it is as clear as can be and too easy to see! I have tried too many times to show points that NO ONE ever wants to look at because they are the product of the PROBLEM and unable to see the real solution!

I bet you do NOT see the problem with increase in minimum wage too - huh?
Being cryptic or being unable to write clearly enough so that people can understand what point you are making sometimes look the same.

As far as the minimum wage goes, any time you arbitrarily change one part of a complex system you are likely to get unexpected reactions. I don't know if you intend to come across arrogantly, but you certainly do. I admit that I don't know how to fix the mess we're in, if you see the problem so clearly and can define it cogently and provide a simple answer, then you obviously have the right to your arrogance and I will accept being humbled.
 
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All I had to go on is what the candidates said, McBush said he'd continue George's policies while Obie said he would not. Unfortunately, in the end I don't think the two of them would have done differently in any significant way. To say that you knew in advance what would happen is perhaps disingenuous since we cannot KNOW the future. In retrospect I can't see that one is better than the other as your similie implies.


Your answer here suggests that you see the problem (but you don't define it) and that you have the answer for it. It also suggests that we have only ONE problem, which I think is incorrect. I see all kinds of problems, I agree with your position on organized religion, but that's only one problem--or one aspect of the larger problem.

I find that I end up objecting to most of the stuff the government does. You talk like Obie is the first one to spend, spend, spend, when in fact he is doing what all the rest have done. Of course I object to it, so what? My objections, my votes, my letters, and my phone calls have never made any difference.


Being cryptic or being unable to write clearly enough so that people can understand what point you are making sometimes look the same.

As far as the minimum wage goes, any time you arbitrarily change one part of a complex system you are likely to get unexpected reactions. I don't know if you intend to come across arrogantly, but you certainly do. I admit that I don't know how to fix the mess we're in, if you see the problem so clearly and can define it cogently and provide a simple answer, then you obviously have the right to your arrogance and I will accept being humbled.
There is so much to comment on in your post - much of which is really good (for your side - sort of joking) however; I am a SLOW TYPER & it would take too long to cover it all ...

However; let me hit a little of it!

I talk with my hands - its hard to get the 20 plus years of thoughts out with a bunch of pecking - try to understand I am NOT blowing wind because I ate a bean! There is a LOT of thought behind this ...

Let me DEFINE THE PROBLEMS
  1. most politicians betray the voter - like being next door to a wax factory - it seems to always STINK!
  2. The right sold us out for big business and corporate wealth
  3. The left sold us out for big business and socialist distribution
  4. BOTH SIDES target the people trapped in the middle (like you said about McBush - I agree 110% - I just saw it to be a tiny bit less horrendous than the Obie side)
Look at WHO GOT HURT ....

.... and screw the banks .... and screw the the airline industry .... and screw the auto industry .... and screw the housing market

WHO GOT HURT? the people trapped in the middle of the battle between the left and right --- WE'VE ALL GOT SCREWED ROYAL!

Had they thought of the PEOPLE - instead of their selfish friggin special interest groups ... they would have noticed THREE IMPORTANT THINGS!

  1. The rich want everything they can get and will toss a few million in scraps to pacify the peasants.
  2. The poor want everything and will SIT THERE are demand it.
  3. The people in the middle are working so hard to pull themselves up that they do not have time to protest or buy off a politician - so NO ONE represents THEM! They are what keep our economy rolling!
The left screams about the tax breaks for the rich ... when John Kerry was running for President - he was saying that I was rich ... thats why he lost.

Obie more than doubled the bottom of the rich level (From 100,000 to 250,000 a year) and so some of those who are upper middle class were okay with the snake oil sales pitch.

The right screams about all the give aways while they are trying to get people do a job correctly with a little thought toward loyalty to the hand that feeds you.

End result neither side is willing to do the other one better to start the ball rolling toward a workable compromise!

... but here is the solution that should have been!

Let me start with a very simple generic question.

QUESTION: What do both sides have in common?

ANSWER: The interest in MORE MONEY

QUESTION: Why were people getting laid off (which has us to such a HIGH unemployment rate)?

ANSWER: Because the cost of doing business forced prices to go up which means that the old wages were not enough to keep the economy going.
79 cent item is now 2 bucks - (almost) everything has gone up

If you are at your limit with the current income and all of a sudden everything is more expensive and it costs your company more to do the job they do - where does your financial rescue come from?

You are the one who has the home you no longer can afford.
You have the loans and credit cards that the banking industry needs to survive.
You have the loss of money that prevents you from affording a better car.
You are the one that will go under first (which means that a nice apartment may very well be out of the question - they require a credit check!)

The politicians ALMOST had the right idea with the rebate checks ... ALMOST!

Had they applied those rebate checks to the EMPLOYER ...
in return for each full time employee that gets a $1.00 per hour RAISE ...
This is what would have happened ...

The Employer would have gotten a loan that would be paid out PERMANENTLY at $40.00 a week in revenue in the pocket of those who needed to pay their mortgage and credit cards and other things like going out to the movies or to a fast food joint (which now costs more since they increased minimum wage to improve kids spending money)

Had the government offered a $350.00 rebate for every full time employee that makes an extra buck - the company could have some additional revenue to offset the cost of doing business so they could keep people working - so people would have money to spend to keep the sales revenue ball rolling so that would hold up a large part of the sag in our economy. It would still cost a business in a fiscal quarter an additional $520.00 per employee.

If the government offered this for every fiscal quarter for 4 quarters - some people could potentially see an extra dollar an hour in each quarter (in one year - $4.00 an hour more aka supporting middle class income)

Think about this - before the minimum wage people worked as much as several years to go from that minimum wage to todays minimum wage and todays wino gets it at the temp service because it is law.
EXCEPT for one thing ... for now - it is hard for some companies to afford temp service labor and they now have more incentive to make full time jobs 30 hours a week so they won't have the expense of benefits to burden the increased cost of doing business.

Does that make more sense - said this way?
 
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