God is gonna get us.

[Pandora]

God does not hate.

Sorry, I meant to say, any god that I might want to listen to does not hate.

Most Christians believe in a god of love.

Why would you choose to follow a god of hate?

God hated Esau before he was born, so apparently the christian God does hate at least some things. Perhaps its the god Allah that likes everybody

 

[Openmind]

God hated Esau before he was born, so apparently the christian God does hate at least some things. Perhaps its the god Allah that likes everybody

No, God doesn't hate anyone, or he wouldn't have created that person.

But humans who wrote the Bible, wanting to "express" the wishes of God were unfortunately ONLY humans, thus they passed all their "stories" through a human filter, which included limitation of time, culture, limited knowledge of the natural world, limited insight into their own motivations, and the human's defect of wanting to gain power over people. . .

We only have to look at todays "Christians" religious leaders to realize that the interpretation they give to EVERYTHING is biased by their own human limitations and greed, and that many USE their congregations to gain power and wealth.

 

[GenSeneca]

...they passed all their "stories" through a human filter, which included limitation of time, culture, limited knowledge of the natural world, limited insight into their own motivations, and the human's defect of wanting to gain power over people. . .

We only have to look at todays ... leaders to realize that the interpretation they give to EVERYTHING is biased by their own human limitations and greed, and that many USE their congregations to gain power and wealth.

Forgive the interruption but I found the portion of your statements quoted above is also applicable to our Corporatist system of government.

 

[Openmind]

Forgive the interruption but I found the portion of your statements quoted above is also applicable to our Corporatist system of government.

Yep. . . you're right.

And itsn't it funny how so many who favor big corporations and want to "protect" them from the workers who made them wealthy to begin with are also very avid readers of the Bible!

Maybe there is an important lessong to learn there. . .but it sure isn't the one that lead to God!

 

[GenSeneca]

Yep. . . you're right.

I'm almost always right... And humble too.

And itsn't it funny how so many who favor big corporations and want to "protect" them from the workers who made them wealthy to begin with are also very avid readers of the Bible!

I think you may have misunderstood my use of the term "corporatist":

Corporatism, also known as corporativism, is a system of economic, political, or social organization that involves division of the people of society into corporate groups, such as agricultural, business, ethnic, labor, military, patronage, or scientific affiliations, on the basis of common interests.​

While business style corporations are included, the term "corporatism" has a much broader meaning.

I think you will find the section on Progressive Corporatism both interesting and agreeable to your political leanings.

 

[Pandora]

No, God doesn't hate anyone, or he wouldn't have created that person.

But humans who wrote the Bible, wanting to "express" the wishes of God were unfortunately ONLY humans, thus they passed all their "stories" through a human filter, which included limitation of time, culture, limited knowledge of the natural world, limited insight into their own motivations, and the human's defect of wanting to gain power over people. . .

We only have to look at todays "Christians" religious leaders to realize that the interpretation they give to EVERYTHING is biased by their own human limitations and greed, and that many USE their congregations to gain power and wealth.

Ill take a wild guess that you are giving me your opinion and not stating a fact.

It took me a while to figure out when you were just giving an opinion and trying to state a fact. You make them sound so much alike

I am far less confused by your posts now

 

[Openmind]

Ill take a wild guess that you are giving me your opinion and not stating a fact.

It took me a while to figure out when you were just giving an opinion and trying to state a fact. You make them sound so much alike

I am far less confused by your posts now

Obviously, my perception of God is my own opinion!

Pandora, there is NO ONE, NO WHERE, who knows for sure what God is or if He/She/It even exists. ANYONE who believes in the Bible is also only doing it on "faith" not "facts."

Although, I don't think I said anything in the previous post that is not common knowledge to everyone who can think for themselves! Don't tell me that any one today (that is, anyone not blinded by dogmatic beliefs) will deny that the Bible was first an "oral" story, then was written by people whose knowledge, culture, and understanding of science and the natural world was far remove from today's! One would have to suspend all reason to not realize that, the way people saw or experienced events 4000 years ago are totally transferrable to today!

Anything related to religion, or beliefs is exactly that. . .OPINIONS.

Quoting verses from the Bible is no more valid than quoting paragraphs of the latest best seller book. It all depends on one's beliefs, and as such it should be respected, but it certainly doesn't have to be taken as "FACTS!"

So, yes, I have my own opinion, my own beliefs, my own feelings and my own relationship with God. And it satisfy me greatly.

And I do have the right to express those beliefs, as much as the Pope, or Pat Anderson, or the Archibishop of Canterbury. I just don't have as many "followers!" But then again, I much prefer to let everyone find their own way, their own relationship with God, rather than "impose" my beliefs on anyone!

 

[Pandora]

Obviously, my perception of God is my own opinion!

Pandora, there is NO ONE, NO WHERE, who knows for sure what God is or if He/She/It even exists. ANYONE who believes in the Bible is also only doing it on "faith" not "facts."

Although, I don't think I said anything in the previous post that is not common knowledge to everyone who can think for themselves! Don't tell me that any one today (that is, anyone not blinded by dogmatic beliefs) will deny that the Bible was first an "oral" story, then was written by people whose knowledge, culture, and understanding of science and the natural world was far remove from today's! One would have to suspend all reason to not realize that, the way people saw or experienced events 4000 years ago are totally transferrable to today!

Anything related to religion, or beliefs is exactly that. . .OPINIONS.

Quoting verses from the Bible is no more valid than quoting paragraphs of the latest best seller book. It all depends on one's beliefs, and as such it should be respected, but it certainly doesn't have to be taken as "FACTS!"

So, yes, I have my own opinion, my own beliefs, my own feelings and my own relationship with God. And it satisfy me greatly.

And I do have the right to express those beliefs, as much as the Pope, or Pat Anderson, or the Archibishop of Canterbury. I just don't have as many "followers!" But then again, I much prefer to let everyone find their own way, their own relationship with God, rather than "impose" my beliefs on anyone!

Yeah,

As I said you stated your opinion, it's ok with me. I believe in the letter written to church of laodicea. There are people today have no idea it was written about them



one thing I find strange though...

If you really would rather not "impose" your beliefs on anyone and you really much prefer to let everyone find their own path... Why do you attack that new guy like his beliefs are some how inferior to your own?

 

[PLC1]

Yeah,

As I said you stated your opinion, it's ok with me. I believe in the letter written to church of laodicea. There are people today have no idea it was written about them



one thing I find strange though...

If you really would rather not "impose" your beliefs on anyone and you really much prefer to let everyone find their own path... Why do you attack that new guy like his beliefs are some how inferior to your own?

Perhaps because the new guy does believe that he must impose his beliefs on everyone else in order to save them from Hell.

 

[Pandora]

Perhaps because the new guy does believe that he must impose his beliefs on everyone else in order to save them from Hell.

So imposing yours back makes it better? or fair? or ?

reminds me of the death penalty

you have killed so im gonna kill you

personally, I don't care if people impose their views on each other in a forum like this. I just found it odd because she said she didn't do that, yet she was..

 

[PLC1]

So imposing yours back makes it better? or fair? or ?

reminds me of the death penalty

you have killed so im gonna kill you

personally, I don't care if people impose their views on each other in a forum like this. I just found it odd because she said she didn't do that, yet she was..

The original statement, by Openmind:

And I do have the right to express those beliefs, as much as the Pope, or Pat Anderson, or the Archibishop of Canterbury. I just don't have as many "followers!" But then again, I much prefer to let everyone find their own way, their own relationship with God, rather than "impose" my beliefs on anyone!

To which you ask:

If you really would rather not "impose" your beliefs on anyone and you really much prefer to let everyone find their own path... Why do you attack that new guy like his beliefs are some how inferior to your own?

And I jumped in and made this speculation:

Perhaps because the new guy does believe that he must impose his beliefs on everyone else in order to save them from Hell.

Which his posts leave no doubt at all is his opinion.

So, I'll now let Openmind answer the question, and we'll see if my speculation was correct or not.

 

[Pandora]

The original statement, by Openmind:



To which you ask:



And I jumped in and made this speculation:



Which his posts leave no doubt at all is his opinion.

So, I'll now let Openmind answer the question, and we'll see if my speculation was correct or not.

Actually you are wrong

The first post in this "ordeal" was one you posted. You said God does not hate.

I posted a reply to YOU quoting a OT VS.

Originally Posted by Pandora
God hated Esau before he was born, so apparently the christian God does hate at least some things. Perhaps its the god Allah that likes everybody


That is when opened mind jumped in to tell me I was wrong and the rest is after that

See, I was wrong for quoting a bible vs or having the audacity to accept or believe in a bible vs.... So its very clear that I was wrong for posting it.

I didn't think that I was pushing or forcing my religion or belief on you or anyone in the forum, I was even saying that perhaps Allah was the god who loved everyone. I think I was being inclusive to other religions and tolerant.

So since she also did not like my bible vs quote and quickly cut it down It doesn't seem to me that its about his "pushing his religion"

But what ever

 

[PLC1]

Actually you are wrong

The first post in this "ordeal" was one you posted. You said God does not hate.

I posted a reply to YOU quoting a OT VS.

Originally Posted by Pandora
God hated Esau before he was born, so apparently the christian God does hate at least some things. Perhaps its the god Allah that likes everybody


That is when opened mind jumped in to tell me I was wrong and the rest is after that

See, I was wrong for quoting a bible vs or having the audacity to accept or believe in a bible vs.... So its very clear that I was wrong for posting it.

I didn't think that I was pushing or forcing my religion or belief on you or anyone in the forum, I was even saying that perhaps Allah was the god who loved everyone. I think I was being inclusive to other religions and tolerant.

So since she also did not like my bible vs quote and quickly cut it down It doesn't seem to me that its about his "pushing his religion"

But what ever

My interpretation of the "new guy" was this member, who anyone would believe was pushing his religion. He is quite open about it, in fact.

 

[Openmind]

Actually you are wrong

The first post in this "ordeal" was one you posted. You said God does not hate.

I posted a reply to YOU quoting a OT VS.

Originally Posted by Pandora
God hated Esau before he was born, so apparently the christian God does hate at least some things. Perhaps its the god Allah that likes everybody


That is when opened mind jumped in to tell me I was wrong and the rest is after that

See, I was wrong for quoting a bible vs or having the audacity to accept or believe in a bible vs.... So its very clear that I was wrong for posting it.

I didn't think that I was pushing or forcing my religion or belief on you or anyone in the forum, I was even saying that perhaps Allah was the god who loved everyone. I think I was being inclusive to other religions and tolerant.

So since she also did not like my bible vs quote and quickly cut it down It doesn't seem to me that its about his "pushing his religion"

But what ever

Actually, Pandora, I believe I was the first one to use this quote (#98 in this thread) in answer to one of your post:

No, God doesn't hate anyone, or he wouldn't have created that person.

But you chose not to answer to that one.

I believe you, and anyone who think that the stories in the Bible are the "true literal word of God, are wrong. That is my belief, AKA my opinion, and you obviously believe (AKA your opinion is) that the stories in the Bible are directly from God and that the crazy acts reported by the Bibles are the wish of God. . .including relating that God hates some of his creatures!

You have every right to post whatever you want, including verses in the Bible. You have every right to belief anything you choose to believe.

I also have that right.

So. . .what is your point? I never said YOU were "pushing [your] religion," although you (as I did) have expressed your beliefs.

Where I draw the line is when people like Igor not only tells us about "his" beliefs, and basically damns to hell everyone who doesn't bow to "his" beliefs. In fact this is exactly what I told him as far back as post #68 in this thread:

post #68 by Openmind: "I believe you are sinning against your fellow humans by imposing your beliefs on them and by interferring with their free will. It is not your place to preach your own specific and very narrow form of religion to anyone. It is invasive and destructive.You have the freedom of your own ideas, opinions, beliefs, and faith. So does EVERYONE else in this world."

And still. . .He has the right to do that, just as I have the right to tell him I believe he is wrong and that his "version" of God is insulting to God and to most people's intelligence.

By the way, in "my book" (no, I don't write books. . .this is another expression to say.. .in my frame of beliefs), there is only ONE God, with many images super-imposed on HIM/HER/IT by HUMANS. . .once again. . .with the limitations that human nature includes, such as the time when they live, their culture, their intelligence, their understanding/knowledge of sciences and natural phenomenon, etc. . .So, in "my book," there is no Allah, is Jesus, is God. The only differences between the "images" attached to those names (and any other "deities") are the MANMADE differences related to their cultural. . .etc. differences.

But you should really stop focusing on my every words, you know... I totally understand that my words, my posts, are not that interesting or "enlightened!" They are certainly not worth ruining your day over it!

Maybe you should just stop reading any of my posts, since they seem to put you in a real state of confusion and they certainly don't seem to bring you anything except grievance!

 

[Pandora]

Actually, Pandora, I believe I was the first one to use this quote (#98 in this thread) in answer to one of your post:

But you chose not to answer to that one.

I saw it and I did choose not to reply to it. I replied to plc1 when he said it instead

I believe you, and anyone who think that the stories in the Bible are the "true literal word of God, are wrong. That is my belief, AKA my opinion, and you obviously believe (AKA your opinion is) that the stories in the Bible are directly from God and that the crazy acts reported by the Bibles are the wish of God. . .including relating that God hates some of his creatures!

Yes, I know that and you attack anyone who disagrees with your point of view. Don't get me wrong, I don't care that you attack everyone who has a different belief system than you do, I just found it different, strange, odd, funny that you posted...

"you really would rather not "impose" your beliefs on anyone and you really much prefer to let everyone find their own path..."

have every right to post whatever you want, including verses in the Bible. You have every right to belief anything you choose to believe.

I also have that right.

So. . .what is your point? I never said YOU were "pushing [your] religion," although you (as I did) have expressed your beliefs.

I never claimed you were accusing me of pushing my religion, that again was a post to plc1 who thought the only reason you were attacking the new guy is because he was pushing his religion. I pointed out to him that you did the same to me in my post above his that he apparently missed and I didn't think I was pushing my religion, just posting a bible vs. so it wasn't probably just about his pushing his religion. My point was I found it odd that you said in your post ... 'you really would rather not "impose" your beliefs on anyone and you really much prefer to let everyone find their own path... yet you were doing just that.

I draw the line is when people like Igor not only tells us about "his" beliefs, and basically damns to hell everyone who doesn't bow to "his" beliefs. In fact this is exactly what I told him as far back as post #68 in this thread:

Pretty much you tell everyone they are wrong unless they agree with you. I don't care that you do it, I don't care that he does it. If he posted a statement to me like ....I really would rather not "impose" my beliefs on anyone and I really much prefer to let everyone find their own path... I would have replied to him the same as I did to you, I just think that plc1 would have been ok with that

the way, in "my book" (no, I don't write books. . .this is another expression to say.. .in my frame of beliefs), there is only ONE God, with many images super-imposed on HIM/HER/IT by HUMANS. . .once again. . .with the limitations that human nature includes, such as the time when they live, their culture, their intelligence, their understanding/knowledge of sciences and natural phenomenon, etc. . .So, in "my book," there is no Allah, is Jesus, is God. The only differences between the "images" attached to those names (and any other "deities") are the MANMADE differences related to their cultural. . .etc. differences.

I am really not that interested in your book, I know many people with your belief system so I have nothing to learn from it.

you should really stop focusing on my every words, you know... I totally understand that my words, my posts, are not that interesting or "enlightened!" They are certainly not worth ruining your day over it!

Maybe you should just stop reading any of my posts, since they seem to put you in a real state of confusion and they certainly don't seem to bring you anything except grievance!

I would love to stop focusing on your every word, its just hard to do when you keep posting to me