CHRISTIANITY is EVIL!

[numinus]

Thought I'd borrow some of pale rider's and jb's logic to prove a point.



That's from the Book of Genesis - Lot, who was formerly declared a "just" and "righteous" man in the book, offers his two virgin daughters to an angry mob to keep them away from God's messengers.


Seems like they're in love...but wait a minute...

So much for love...Dinah's brothers go and slaughter not only the guy who "defiled" her, but also his father and the rest of the town.

And so much for Dinah...at best they're chastising her for giving away her virginity before marriage. At worst they're equating a victim of rape to a whore. Way to go.



Kinda speaks for itself.

That's it for Genesis...we'll be taking a look at Exodus in the next post.

The only thing that 'speaks for itself' is your clear bias against christianity. Genesis is as much a book of jews and moslems as it is for christians.

 

[vyo476]

The only thing that 'speaks for itself' is your clear bias against christianity. Genesis is as much a book of jews and moslems as it is for christians.

The point I was trying to prove is that it is not fair to declare a religion like Christianity or Islam "evil." I think you just helped prove the point. Thank you.

 

[numinus]

The point I was trying to prove is that it is not fair to declare a religion like Christianity or Islam "evil." I think you just helped prove the point. Thank you.

You have proven what?

That the norms that operate in the biblical milleu do not apply presently?

Of course not. That is the whole point of soteriology, no?

 

[Justinian]

Hmmm

Yeah, I've heard 'em all. Religion leads to war, blah blah blah blah. Unortunately when religion is strong in a country which it should be, it is a sweet and seemly thing to die for it. Religion also leads to happiness. The elimination of religion will not end war. Take your pick; War, Chaos and mass misery or War, order and happiness.

 

[9sublime]

You honestly believe people can't be happy without religion? I am a very happy person, content with everything because I live in a rich country and have things going good for me right now.

Religion has been created, sustained, and believed in most strongly when things are going badly. Its because its a comfort, an answer, a hope. If all the world lived at the standard of the rich of today, there would be little need for religion.

The only unanswered question is what happens when we die. People would have to concoct their own load of man made chuff without mass religion, and the world would be a better place for it too.

 

[vyo476]

You have proven what?

That the norms that operate in the biblical milleu do not apply presently?

That not all aspects of a religious text must be strictly adhered to in order to be considered a "good" member of that particular faith and that judgment of a particular faith based on strict interpretation of the entire text is not fair in a modern light.

So basically...yes.

 

[Mare Tranquillity]

Yeah, I've heard 'em all. Religion leads to war, blah blah blah blah. Unortunately when religion is strong in a country which it should be, it is a sweet and seemly thing to die for it. Religion also leads to happiness. The elimination of religion will not end war. Take your pick; War, Chaos and mass misery or War, order and happiness.

So is this statement meant to apply to all religions? It's "sweet and seemly" to die for Islam and it's just as "sweet and seemly" to die for Mormonism?

I think this sentence would have been more accurate if you had said: "Religion CAN lead to happiness. The elimination of religion will not NECESSARILY end war."

"Take your pick; War, Chaos and mass misery or War, order and happiness."

This is a false choice, religion is not the only thing that brings order and happiness into human life. We should also note that while it's true that religion CAN bring happiness and order, it also CAN bring chaos and mass misery: look at the Dark Ages, the Crusades, the Inquisition, the witch burnings, the slavery of black people, the subjugation of women, the abuse of mentally ill people, discrimination against people with deformaties... it's a long and ugly list.

 

[numinus]

That not all aspects of a religious text must be strictly adhered to in order to be considered a "good" member of that particular faith and that judgment of a particular faith based on strict interpretation of the entire text is not fair in a modern light.

In judaism, there is levitical law, mosaic law, pharisaic law, all based on different interpretations of the same text.

Christianity does not follow all that to the letter, and confines themselves principally to the new testament, even though jesus was a jewish rabbi.

Islam, well, supersedes all that by god's revelations to mohammed.

What's the point?

So basically...yes.

You have arrived at the conclusion that christianity is evil by the behavior of certain biblical characters - and in the old testament, no less?

You must be superman! You can leap tall orders of logic in a single bound!

 

[Justinian]

Hmmm

Good honest-hearted post here.

This is a false choice, religion is not the only thing that brings order and happiness into human life. We should also note that while it's true that religion CAN bring happiness and order, it also CAN bring chaos and mass misery: look at the Dark Ages, the Crusades, the Inquisition, the witch burnings, the slavery of black people, the subjugation of women, the abuse of mentally ill people, discrimination against people with deformaties... it's a long and ugly list.

Not the only thing that brings order? Right, the other one is government which only grows and decays under an atheist society. As we now contemplate the world converted into a huge machine and managed by engineers, we gradually grow aware of its lack of meaning, of its emptiness of human value; the soul is stifled in this glorificiation of human mechanical efficiency. And then we begin to feel the weakness of such a creed when confronted by the real problems of life; we've discovered its inability to impose any restraint on the passions of men, or to supply or create any government which can appeal to the loyalty of the spiritual body. And seeing these things we internally understand the fear that is gnawing at the vitals of society Humanitarian fools, having dissolved the old loyalties and prescriptions, find themselves defenseless before the boss, the union-leader, the political policeman, the very pitiless machine society they had welcomed. Fear, like injustice and sin, will not be eradicated from the world; but the fear of modern civilization is a terror peculiarly hideous. What then is society to do? Our society after so many outspoken misgivings, failures, wars or lack of wars will once again crave to get the fear of God back into itself.

 

[Justinian]

Hmmm

You see no system is perfect. My job in this culture-social war is to advocate my own opinion of which is the better system which luckily for me is relatively easy no matter how muc collectivist scum attacks and denounces me. You see, my friend reality is basically founded and realized by extremes. For extremes are the basic bare, uncompromising nature of the more centrist position of the same ideology. Through extremes, stripped of its irrelevant obstacles and loyalties does the system work to its most mechanical and efficiency of itself. Within this state does it become the clearest if this forced-upon system obeys and coincides with the rules of human nature. Human nature shows itself the clearest in the most rigorous of circumstances. Fortunately for us, most all of these different systems have already been enacted giving us the divine ability to understand Humanity and its relation with order. The way I look at government... 'proper government' is that Government is the understanding of humanity. Only through the understanding of true human nature can one possibly understand the human invention of government and its flawed but excellent purpose destined. Anyhow, one component of the wonderful contrivement of religion is its ability to free man from the human machine of government as well as supplying a system for the government of the governing. The fear of God.

 

[Justinian]

hmm

You honestly believe people can't be happy without religion? I am a very happy person, content with everything because I live in a rich country and have things going good for me right now.

Religion has been created, sustained, and believed in most strongly when things are going badly. Its because its a comfort, an answer, a hope. If all the world lived at the standard of the rich of today, there would be little need for religion.

The only unanswered question is what happens when we die. People would have to concoct their own load of man made chuff without mass religion, and the world would be a better place for it too.

Happy you are because you have a purpose which is to combat religion and turn people away from God. Once that is gone and man has returned to its base nature, redefining and restructuring its already decaying world, believe me, you won't be happy that is if you're not dead.

 

[9sublime]

I don't try and turn anyone against religion outside of this forum because religion is a personal bussiness. I don't stand on a street corner preaching like a religious person, atheists never do... noticed that? I don't want to turn anyone away from God unless they ask for the debate.

And the base level of humanity is religion, religion has been around since man evolved enough to realise his own mortality.

 

[steveox]

CHRISTIANITY is EVIL!

So is the Jewish religion and the Muslim religion

 

[Mare Tranquillity]

Good honest-hearted post here.
Not the only thing that brings order? Right, the other one is government which only grows and decays under an atheist society. As we now contemplate the world converted into a huge machine and managed by engineers, we gradually grow aware of its lack of meaning, of its emptiness of human value; the soul is stifled in this glorificiation of human mechanical efficiency. And then we begin to feel the weakness of such a creed when confronted by the real problems of life; we've discovered its inability to impose any restraint on the passions of men, or to supply or create any government which can appeal to the loyalty of the spiritual body. And seeing these things we internally understand the fear that is gnawing at the vitals of society Humanitarian fools, having dissolved the old loyalties and prescriptions, find themselves defenseless before the boss, the union-leader, the political policeman, the very pitiless machine society they had welcomed. Fear, like injustice and sin, will not be eradicated from the world; but the fear of modern civilization is a terror peculiarly hideous. What then is society to do? Our society after so many outspoken misgivings, failures, wars or lack of wars will once again crave to get the fear of God back into itself.

It's pretty sad when fear is the only thing that you think can bring us back (to what, the Dark Ages when everybody believed in God and feared Him as a judgmental monster?)

What do mean by "wars or lack of wars"?

Get a grip, Justinian, we don't need to run to some tribal god image to save us from our own chaos, we can shape our world as we wish by following Gandhi's very simple rule: Be the change you wish to see in the world. Hysterical superstition isn't going to solve our problems any more than it has in the past. There has never been a time in human history when religion brought order to the world--that kind of nostalgia is nonsense.

 

[9sublime]

The person who started this thread didn't believe that Christianiy was evil, they were just using someone else logic on Islam being evil and applying it to Christianity.