Finally, a sign that Obama thinks the economic crash is serious!

[Pandora]

Every country in the world will suffer from the aging of the population. Belgium is no different, but at least it doesn't cost much at all to be well covered!

And, NO they don't deny health care to elderly people (even if they do have a law that allows people who choose to to leave this life with dignity).
In fact, just as an exemple. . .my grandmother was 94 years old when she had a hysterectomy! And she recovered (although she was given the last rites before the surgery. . .just in case she didn't wake up!), and she lived another 5 1/2 years. . .then she took a bad fall from a whole flight of stairs, and she died very quickly.

My brother in law is 89 years old. He just had surgery in March for a blocked carotide artery. At the end of April my sister and him went to attend my nephew's wedding in Quebec! They are both planning a 3 weeks trip to Tunisia in September, with my other sister and her husbands (both in their 70's) as they have done every year for the last 8 years.

Nice of you to show interest though!

It makes me so happy to hear both of those stories. Not the part about your grandmother falling down stairs, but that she was given a hysterectomy at her age is really great. Your brother in law story was really good to hear as well.

I admit I tried looking up bad health care in Belgium and could not find even one bad story. Why doesn't canada and England try doing it the way you do?

Did you hear obama's answer when he was asked about an elderly woman's heart troubles? A daughter asked him in a town hall type meeting if his health care would cover her mother who was I think she said in her late 90s and needed a new pacemaker. He said sometimes its better to take the painkiller. Well here you can see the clip yourself.


Grr I cant get it to work, here is the URL

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-dQfb8WQvo&feature=player_embedded

 

[Openmind]

It makes me so happy to hear both of those stories. Not the part about your grandmother falling down stairs, but that she was given a hysterectomy at her age is really great. Your brother in law story was really good to hear as well.

I admit I tried looking up bad health care in Belgium and could not find even one bad story. Why doesn't canada and England try doing it the way you do?

Did you hear obama's answer when he was asked about an elderly woman's heart troubles? A daughter asked him in a town hall type meeting if his health care would cover her mother who was I think she said in her late 90s and needed a new pacemaker. He said sometimes its better to take the painkiller. Well here you can see the clip yourself.


Grr I cant get it to work, here is the URL

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-dQfb8WQvo&feature=player_embedded

Thanks. Yes, I know it is hard when one of your loved one is approaching death not to do everything you can to help him/her. However, many older people (especially in their 90's) are just too fragile to undergoe one more surgery (this is the reason why my grandmother was given the last rite. . . although she was generally healthy, there was a big risk that the anesthesia would be too much for her).

In fact, I only gave you half of the story about my brother in law. He did get his surgery, and recovered well. But he continues to have some "black outs" about twice a week because the deeper artery behind the carotide, the one hidden behind the jaw is also blocked, but if the surgeon had attempted the much more invasive surgery to clear that artery (he would have had to remove part of the jaw bone to get to the clot), my brother in law would not have survived.

So, he has decided to live life to its fullest, to go to Quebec, and to keep working in his vegetable garden every day when he is home, and to spend some weekends at the seashore with his wife, and to fly to Tunisia at the end of Summer. . .he if is still alive. He feels that, it doesn't matter where he dies, as long as every day is the best day he ever had!

I hope I am as wise as he is when the time comes for me to realise that I am ready to meet my God.

 

[Pandora]

Thanks. Yes, I know it is hard when one of your loved one is approaching death not to do everything you can to help him/her. However, many older people (especially in their 90's) are just too fragile to undergoe one more surgery

obama did not reply how he did because the woman was fragile, he was talking about the cost. The woman explained that the first doctor didn't think it was worth doing at her age and they finally found a doctor who would do it, she just wanted to know where obama stood on the elderly and expensive surgery

This is the biggest reason I am against the health care bill past. If our country were willing to do it like your country seems to do it, more than half of my "issues" with a national health care would disappear.

Here in oregon we have the oregon health care plan. Its like a mini obama care plan. A woman here locally had cancer and instead of giving her the expensive medicine she needed that would help her survive they offered her Dr. Assisted suicide. She wasn't even old! When the pharmaceutical company heard what happened they gave her the meds free. But I don't want to have any part of a health care system (including paying for it) that treats human lives that way.

 

[Lagboltz]

Did you hear obama's answer when he was asked about an elderly woman's heart troubles? A daughter asked him in a town hall type meeting if his health care would cover her mother who was I think she said in her late 90s and needed a new pacemaker. He said sometimes its better to take the painkiller. Well here you can see the clip yourself.

Obama was too quick to make a medical diagnosis. He should have stopped when he was ahead and kept his mouth shut. But he did have a point about surgery for elderly.

My father-in-law was very energetic but had an aortic aneurysm when he was 94. He had surgery to repair it and he healed, but he was too weak to fully recover. He was completely bed-ridden, totally incontinent, and had a feeding tube inserted through his abdomen into his stomach. For the next year my sister-in-law who was 68 had to take care of him. Stuffing food into the feeding tube, changing a diaper, bathing him, etc. It took a heavy toll on her.

The woman who talked to Obama had a simpler operation, but these decisions are fraught with difficulty. Three doctors said I should have an embedded ventricular defibrillator. They would feed a wire through a vein and right through the middle of a heart valve. Batteries would have to be changed by surgery. I said, no way. That was 12 years ago. Drugs (5 of them) work just fine for me and are much less invasive. But still Obama should have kept quiet because it is a personal and touchy subject.

 

[Pandora]

Obama was too quick to make a medical diagnosis. He should have stopped when he was ahead and kept his mouth shut. But he did have a point about surgery for elderly.

My father-in-law was very energetic but had an aortic aneurysm when he was 94. He had surgery to repair it and he healed, but he was too weak to fully recover. He was completely bed-ridden, totally incontinent, and had a feeding tube inserted through his abdomen into his stomach. For the next year my sister-in-law who was 68 had to take care of him. Stuffing food into the feeding tube, changing a diaper, bathing him, etc. It took a heavy toll on her.

The woman who talked to Obama had a simpler operation, but these decisions are fraught with difficulty. Three doctors said I should have an embedded ventricular defibrillator. They would feed a wire through a vein and right through the middle of a heart valve. Batteries would have to be changed by surgery. I said, no way. That was 12 years ago. Drugs (5 of them) work just fine for me and are much less invasive. But still Obama should have kept quiet because it is a personal and touchy subject.

Politically yes he should have kept quiet, but I am glad he did not. I want to know what he really thinks and sometimes he talks too quickly and says what he feels not what the prompter says or what the polls say he should say.

I learn the best about him as a person when he is caught off guard.

 

[Openmind]

obama did not reply how he did because the woman was fragile, he was talking about the cost. The woman explained that the first doctor didn't think it was worth doing at her age and they finally found a doctor who would do it, she just wanted to know where obama stood on the elderly and expensive surgery

This is the biggest reason I am against the health care bill past. If our country were willing to do it like your country seems to do it, more than half of my "issues" with a national health care would disappear.

Here in oregon we have the oregon health care plan. Its like a mini obama care plan. A woman here locally had cancer and instead of giving her the expensive medicine she needed that would help her survive they offered her Dr. Assisted suicide. She wasn't even old! When the pharmaceutical company heard what happened they gave her the meds free. But I don't want to have any part of a health care system (including paying for it) that treats human lives that way.

It all depends what kind of cancer one has. Sometime, the "healing" one is hoping for doesn't come in the form of beating the cancer, but beating our fear of dying. A neighbor (only 58 years old) who was an amazing athlete and incredibly healthy found out she had pancreatic cancer. She fought to the end, took all the treatments available, and still died in 13 months. She spent at least 8 of those 13 months terribly sick from increasingly aggressive chemo therapy treatments, had a feeding tube that provoked multiple infections, was so sick that she couldn't get out of bed for most of the last 4 months.

If she had chosen to give up heroic treatments after her surgery, and her fist chemo treatment, when she was told her "chance" of surviving 3 years were only 3%. . .she would have lived almost as long, but her quality of life would have been incredibly better.

I want to be able to choose when to give up. I will know.

 

[Lagboltz]

Politically yes he should have kept quiet, but I am glad he did not. I want to know what he really thinks and sometimes he talks too quickly and says what he feels not what the prompter says or what the polls say he should say.

I learn the best about him as a person when he is caught off guard.

I don't think what he said was that outlandish. I had the same thoughts about my father-in-law. My wife and I talked about it and decided that both of us would want them to pull the plug.

What do you think about the prostate cancer drug.

WASHINGTON (AP) — Medicare officials confirmed Thursday that the program will cover the $93,000 price tag for prostate cancer drug Provenge, an innovative therapy that typically gives men suffering from an incurable stage of the disease an extra four months to live.​

 

[Openmind]

I don't think what he said was that outlandish. I had the same thoughts about my father-in-law. My wife and I talked about it and decided that both of us would want them to pull the plug.

What do you think about the prostate cancer drug.

WASHINGTON (AP) — Medicare officials confirmed Thursday that the program will cover the $93,000 price tag for prostate cancer drug Provenge, an innovative therapy that typically gives men suffering from an incurable stage of the disease an extra four months to live.​

Good news! Prostate cancer is a highly curable form of cancer, if it is detected early enough.

All cancers are not equal though.

 

[Lagboltz]

Good news! Prostate cancer is a highly curable form of cancer, if it is detected early enough.

All cancers are not equal though.

The point I was making is that it does not cure prostate cancer, it just prolongs life of an incurable stage by 4 months. Is 4 months worth $93,000? That is a simple question for somebody that's rich, but with medicare tax payers would have to foot the bill so that some can prolong their life. A pace maker is in the range of 70,000 - 75,000. That's probably more cost effective.

 

[Pandora]

I don't think what he said was that outlandish. I had the same thoughts about my father-in-law. My wife and I talked about it and decided that both of us would want them to pull the plug.

What do you think about the prostate cancer drug.

WASHINGTON (AP) — Medicare officials confirmed Thursday that the program will cover the $93,000 price tag for prostate cancer drug Provenge, an innovative therapy that typically gives men suffering from an incurable stage of the disease an extra four months to live.​

If someone has the money or means and wants it they should be able to get it.

I have really good health care and wont go to the doctor because i have a phobia and I hate doctors. I also have breast and ovarian cancer strong in the females in my family, I have already decided I will not do anything should I get breast cancer but already had the ovarian cancer a few years ago and had the hysterectomy.

So some people want it and cant get it and others like me can get it but don't want it

Most importantly though is this...

We cannot decide for ourselves the value of another persons life.

 

[Openmind]

The point I was making is that it does not cure prostate cancer, it just prolongs life of an incurable stage by 4 months. Is 4 months worth $93,000? That is a simple question for somebody that's rich, but with medicare tax payers would have to foot the bill so that some can prolong their life. A pace maker is in the range of 70,000 - 75,000. That's probably more cost effective.

I am not familiar with that drug, so I wouldn't know.

I assume, from your description, that it is administered only at stage 4 prostate cancer then?

Well, I'm sorry, I think there is a time when we have to remember that LIFE is a terminal disease. At some point, we need to let go.

And, please realize that I am 61, so I am starting to realize my own mortality, although I am extremely healthy, and I am a cancer survivor (15 years).

I really hope that, when the time comes for me to check out, I will know it, and I will do so gracefully, without "heroic" measures that are so hard on both the patient and their family.

 

[pocketfullofshells]

Politically yes he should have kept quiet, but I am glad he did not. I want to know what he really thinks and sometimes he talks too quickly and says what he feels not what the prompter says or what the polls say he should say.

I learn the best about him as a person when he is caught off guard.

its a basic fact that some medical costs will not be paid for under any system..Insurance companies often don't pay for surgery's and procedures. my GF got lucky after she lost her job they gave her a few months coverage on her health care..( she has some major long term illnesses that are pretty spendy...lets just say I have spent a way to much time in hospitals with her) but her old coverage covered a spendy procedure she had done, that has helped her a huge amount ( possibly life saving) but it would not have been covered under her new health care plan, and there is no way any insurance would take her without going threw the private insurance system outside of work...what point is there for them to take someone that they know will always cost a lot more then she could pay in? They would just call it Pre Existing and say its not covered at best..

Think about this question.....

you have a 100 year old woman..she needs a surgery...the cost is 1 million dollars...the odds of it working are about 10-15%...if it works she may live 6 months more....do you cover it?

what if its 2 million dollars and the chances are 5%?

1 Million dollars and would prolong life by a month max if it worked? and slim chance it would work.?

fact is unless we worked in a system with unlimited money...choices have to be made..under any system...the private one you seem to like...some board who gets paid on how much profit they make makes it...in a 2nd the government who is elected by the people has to do it...in a third its just based on if your rich or poor... Or you have some combo of the 3....who do you think is most likey to want to pay for it..someone who has to run for election in 2 years and have the support of the people...or someone who only has to deal with stock holders who don't care what happens so long as they make profits...who will be the most likey to air on the side of saving someone? I know who i would bet on.

 

[pocketfullofshells]

Good news! Prostate cancer is a highly curable form of cancer, if it is detected early enough.

All cancers are not equal though.

the report clearly says its for those when its in a uncureable stage...so that does not apply to this drug.

 

[pocketfullofshells]

If someone has the money or means and wants it they should be able to get it.

I have really good health care and wont go to the doctor because i have a phobia and I hate doctors. I also have breast and ovarian cancer strong in the females in my family, I have already decided I will not do anything should I get breast cancer but already had the ovarian cancer a few years ago and had the hysterectomy.

So some people want it and cant get it and others like me can get it but don't want it

Most importantly though is this...

We cannot decide for ourselves the value of another persons life.

you are in fact deciding the value of someones life...the system you support says that the rich can be cured and the poor don't have to be...you are in fact deciding that those who can afford it, have lives that are worth more.

 

[Openmind]

If someone has the money or means and wants it they should be able to get it.

I have really good health care and wont go to the doctor because i have a phobia and I hate doctors. I also have breast and ovarian cancer strong in the females in my family, I have already decided I will not do anything should I get breast cancer but already had the ovarian cancer a few years ago and had the hysterectomy.

So some people want it and cant get it and others like me can get it but don't want it

Most importantly though is this...

We cannot decide for ourselves the value of another persons life.

I totally agree with that!

However, I disagree with your decision to do nothing if you get breast cancer. Once again, breast cancer is highly curable (I know, I had it). In fact, I have a friend who, four years ago, was diagnosed with stage 4 breast cancer. She was told she had 6 months to live, and the doctor told her that, it was up to her, but he didn't think a mastectomy at that stage would prolong her life (it was already in her bones and her brain).

But, today she is still living with cancer. She saw her only daughter get married, and she now has a grand daughter. She is ill, but still feels well enough to get out a couple of times a week, to travel to see her grand daughter in Florida, and to play bridge twice a month.

I hope, if ever you are are faced with breast cancer, you will consider all your options.