California Proposition 8

[n0spam4me]

"Why does the government have to be in it at all? for civil unions or marriages? "

Unfortunately because of the complexitys of modern life,
that is there is the exercise of police power everywhere,
and also the issues of what to do in case the relationship fails
and people who have been living together in the same house/apartment
for years now get to split up the stuff, not to mention the bank accounts
(etc...) and the issue of what to do with the Children (oops!)

speaking as a kid from a divorced heterosexual household.... its a drag any way you look at it!

The LAW unfortunately gets involved, unless you want to either live as out-laws or live in a 3rd world country.

The sort of instatutionalized intollerance that I personally have seen,
the denial of access by bigotted blood kin of a gay man dieing of ADDS to his lover because there was no contract or legal reason to allow hospital visits by ones same-sex lover ... how inhumane can we get?!?!?!?!

Its all a lot of power games and if AMERICA doesn't wake up to what is happening, its going to get a LOT worse - I hate to think of what could be...

 

[Pandora]

"Why does the government have to be in it at all? for civil unions or marriages? "

Unfortunately because of the complexitys of modern life,
that is there is the exercise of police power everywhere,
and also the issues of what to do in case the relationship fails
and people who have been living together in the same house/apartment
for years now get to split up the stuff, not to mention the bank accounts
(etc...) and the issue of what to do with the Children (oops!)

speaking as a kid from a divorced heterosexual household.... its a drag any way you look at it!

The LAW unfortunately gets involved, unless you want to either live as out-laws or live in a 3rd world country.

The sort of instatutionalized intollerance that I personally have seen,
the denial of access by bigotted blood kin of a gay man dieing of ADDS to his lover because there was no contract or legal reason to allow hospital visits by ones same-sex lover ... how inhumane can we get?!?!?!?!

Its all a lot of power games and if AMERICA doesn't wake up to what is happening, its going to get a LOT worse - I hate to think of what could be...

I was in the hospital twice, once Catholic and the other secular. I never had issues with my friends visiting me, I did have the choice of making a list of who I did NOT want to visit me. If other states are different then just put the people on the list you want visits from?

I cant think of anything the government needs to have a say in except for possibly custody and you are going to go to court for that if you are living together, married, seperated, if you adopted or what ever.

 

[top gun]

And being pro-deviant marriage in CA, I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest that the findings of the AI industry are making the deviant crowd more than a little uncomfortable.

Forgive me for pointing this out... but this does tend to look like just more baseless slurs by Siho the scorned homophobic?

One adult being in love with and wanting to spend they're life in a legal committed relationship with another willing adult that wants the same thing... is not "deviant" at all.

The only way you can get from here to there is if you bring religious dogma into the equation. And since America is the land of freedom of religion and freedom from religious persecution that's obviously not a valid argument either.

The entire hinge of the deviant argument for inclusion in marriage rests on their pleas that they are currenlty being descriminated against in not being allowed to be legally married. However, they are allowed civil unions in most states.

Gobbledygook... You're either fine with two adults not being discriminated against and being allowed a legally binding & legally recognized joining in a loving monogamous relationship or you're not. It could be called it a cat-scan and it would make no difference.

The underlying problem you have here as the state of Iowa's Supreme Court recently ruled... It is unconstitutional to legally forbid this recognition to gay couples but allow it to straight couples.

Which is of course correct thinking.

How will gay marriage affect society?

Easy to say.

Gay marriage has been legal in various places in the world for a long time and in some states in America and growing. The only really negative things in regard to gay marriage have been perpetrated by straight mostly holy roller types upset because the practice has been allowed.

That would obviously seem to be their problem... not gay marriages problem.

Deviant sex is deviant sex.

How about a man poking a women in the butt? How about a woman tying up a man whipping him and putting a ball gag in his mouth? How about a guy or gal choking their partner with a scarf to get a stronger sexual release at orgasm?

These things all 100% totally legal are more well thought out, normal and good for society than two adults of the same sex in a respectful loving monogamous marriage???

Come on... get over yourself!

 

[ASPCA4EVER]

Mare Said: I try to remain philosophical about the bigotry though, maybe Siho's and Num's kids will be smarter than their progenitors.

And when attempting to discuss adult issues with the mentality of these two, just reinforces in me the deep seated feelings that 'these' mindsets should never ever be allowed to BREED!!! ROTFLMAO

 

[Mare Tranquillity]

Why does the government have to be in it at all? for civil unions or marriages?

Because the government is who administers the law. There are more than a 1000 Federal laws that grant rights and privileges to legally married people--if we take the government out of marriage/civil unions, then we will have to remove all the laws governing marriage as well. That would be one approach however.

 

[Mare Tranquillity]

And when attempting to discuss adult issues with the mentality of these two, just reinforces in me the deep seated feelings that 'these' mindsets should never ever be allowed to BREED!!! ROTFLMAO

Yes, and yet no one is calling for them to be denied marriage and children and equality, are they? It's only them trying to prevent others from having equality.

 

[Sihouette]

Yes but then the ultimate reason for gay marriage: adoptions, would still be a mogel field for gays to naviagate without society's stamp of "normal" on their union..

Let's keep it real about the thrust of why deviants are after "equality"...adoption issues..

Homosexuality is acquired after birth via unusual associative-conditioning environmental factors that foster a diversion in the initial drive to copulate with the opposite gender and fixate it on [whatever else was handy] instead. Do we want this modeled for children? That is the question we need to ask ourselves as a society.

Properly this debate may be more about equal rights for the now young voiceless, or unborn citizens than it is for those already born and affected by environmental conditions. Who's rights weigh over whom because they are in direct conflict at this point. If you accept that humans learn socially, giving gays the stamp of normalcy via marriage is putting our future generations to a form of inappropriate contact.

 

[Mare Tranquillity]

I was in the hospital twice, once Catholic and the other secular. I never had issues with my friends visiting me, I did have the choice of making a list of who I did NOT want to visit me. If other states are different then just put the people on the list you want visits from?

I cant think of anything the government needs to have a say in except for possibly custody and you are going to go to court for that if you are living together, married, seperated, if you adopted or what ever.

It's not visitors that we are discussing. If you are in an accident and in bad condition only family will be allowed to see you, only family will be allowed to have input on your treatment, and if family say that your gay lover/partner cannot see you, then you will not get in. If you and your partner have all your legal documentation in order they may be able to go to court next week and get a court order to force the hospital to override the biologial family's objections to your partner being involved in your care--but maybe not too, and your partner will have to sue for custody or some such. None of these things happen with a marriage certificate, your husband is your next of kin and no one can keep him away from you without a lot of legal red tape.

 

[Mare Tranquillity]

OK, just to be clear, you consider having been born with a penis and testicles a "birth defect" that needed surgical amputation to correct? And you insist that this was because your "brain" is "female".. And in no way is your insistance born of deep-seated psychological issues...

That, folks, is the new "normal".. get used to it....

Once again you have paraded your ignorance publicly. It took nearly 20 years for me to go through puberty because I have never had normal hormone levels in my body (how does your deviant sex theory explain the lack of normal hormones throughout life?).

I might have been able to live my life being somewhere in between male and female but I lived in a town populated with people like yourself who gave me no peace. Bigots created this problem by knowing nothing about biology beyond the high school level and they have blamed us for something over which we had no control. It's nice to see you blaming the victim, Siho, men have been doing that to women in rape cases since time immemorial, religous folks have done the same thing, at least you are carrying on a tradition--stupid and disgusting though it may be.

 

[Pandora]

It's not visitors that we are discussing. If you are in an accident and in bad condition only family will be allowed to see you, only family will be allowed to have input on your treatment, and if family say that your gay lover/partner cannot see you, then you will not get in. If you and your partner have all your legal documentation in order they may be able to go to court next week and get a court order to force the hospital to override the biologial family's objections to your partner being involved in your care--but maybe not too, and your partner will have to sue for custody or some such. None of these things happen with a marriage certificate, your husband is your next of kin and no one can keep him away from you without a lot of legal red tape.

well if they discontinued marriage certificates then everyone would be in the same boat and the rules in hospitals exc. would change too. wouldnt it?

 

[Mare Tranquillity]

Homosexuality is acquired after birth via unusual associative-conditioning environmental factors that foster a diversion in the initial drive to copulate with the opposite gender and fixate it on [whatever else was handy] instead.

Let's all note that so far Siho has presented nothing to support this wild accusation EXCEPT her experience with forcing captive domesticated animals to have deviant sex.

There is no current scientific research supporting her theory and a lot that tears her theory apart.

 

[Mare Tranquillity]

well if they discontinued marriage certificates then everyone would be in the same boat and the rules in hospitals exc. would change too. wouldnt it?

If marriage certificates were discontinued but all the laws about marriage were left on the books I think that we would have a mess--who decides to whom the laws apply? Lawyers would have a field-day!

 

[top gun]

Sihouette;94540]Yes but then the ultimate reason for gay marriage: adoptions, would still be a mogel field for gays to naviagate without society's stamp of "normal" on their union..

Actually I think the only reason anyone wants to get married is because they are in love. But again this concept alludes you ever since the guy you dated left you BECAUSE HE WAS GAY! See... you just simply could not change that.

Let's keep it real about the thrust of why deviants are after "equality"...adoption issues..

Why? Nothing you've said on this entire subject has been "real". It's all been just personal prejudice opinion.

Homosexuality is acquired after birth...

And again you give only more unknowledgeable personal opinion. It has been shown in millions of cases that some people are born being gay inclined and that from their very earliest memories have always felt gay.

So you have no point here.

Properly this debate may be more about equal rights for the now young voiceless, or unborn citizens than it is for those already born and affected by environmental conditions. Who's rights weigh over whom because they are in direct conflict at this point. If you accept that humans learn socially, giving gays the stamp of normalcy via marriage is putting our future generations to a form of inappropriate contact.

I don't think bigots should be allowed to marry and procreate and should at all costs be kept away from children and off the internet... but there's no law to that effect obviously.

 

[ASPCA4EVER]

The way that you keep trying to educate this poor suffering human...I acknowledge your faith and perseverance!!!

I'll give this to you Mare...you must have the patience's of a 'SAINT'...to keep trying to get this utterly confused/sexually repressed/deviant fixated human to see the 'light' is an endeavor into the 'Twilight Zone' and some where that I don't want to follow.

See her next topic of 'Sexual Perversion' and you'll fully understand that this person is:
1. either trying to do a thesis on sexuality and has no formal education
2. is unable to utilize the basic dewy system at the local library
3. so closeted repressed that the only place that this discussion can take place is on a forum where total anonymity is assured
4. just jerking our provable chains for her own sick/deviant repressed form of 'FUN'

 

[Pandora]

If marriage certificates were discontinued but all the laws about marriage were left on the books I think that we would have a mess--who decides to whom the laws apply? Lawyers would have a field-day!

The laws would have to discontinue also. What ever laws apply to a person who is currently married should become as null and void as the marriage its self.

Just saying marriage is now crap and its not valid we have a new word called civil union does not fix anything, it just changes the name of something else and all the problems still stay, the government should be totally out of it. It should be between who or what ever wants to be together