The enemies' torture camps are not my concern (in the same manner as Gitmo, et. al.), because it is not my government torturing human beings in those places.
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Bush: No Recollection of CIA Torture Tape
- Thread starter alden
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The enemies' torture camps are not my concern (in the same manner as Gitmo, et. al.), because it is not my government torturing human beings in those places.
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bewitched
Well-Known Member
do you work for the government?
This is one of the most idiotic arguments I've witnessed on this board.
The real issue at hand here is whether or not activities that the government supports or allows are in agreement with its public policies.
Although I've heard discussions that semantics are confusing or the wording is vague, it does seem that the torture of prisoners by our military is in conflict with our public policy on torture.
This is not a discussion about the effectiveness of torture. It is not a discussion of the effectiveness of an "eye for an eye" mentality. It is not a discussion of what other countries do to their military prisoners. It is not a discussion of whether or not government and its agencies have the need to keep information from the public sphere. I some cases that's most certainly true, but I do believe that this issue needs to live, breathe, and be debated in the public sphere.
It is purely a discussion of the apparent disagreement between our actions and our policies.
That being said, I hope that this debate and discussion continues, because I firmly believe that the good of a people can only be served through discussion and debate.
The real issue at hand here is whether or not activities that the government supports or allows are in agreement with its public policies.
Although I've heard discussions that semantics are confusing or the wording is vague, it does seem that the torture of prisoners by our military is in conflict with our public policy on torture.
This is not a discussion about the effectiveness of torture. It is not a discussion of the effectiveness of an "eye for an eye" mentality. It is not a discussion of what other countries do to their military prisoners. It is not a discussion of whether or not government and its agencies have the need to keep information from the public sphere. I some cases that's most certainly true, but I do believe that this issue needs to live, breathe, and be debated in the public sphere.
It is purely a discussion of the apparent disagreement between our actions and our policies.
That being said, I hope that this debate and discussion continues, because I firmly believe that the good of a people can only be served through discussion and debate.
bewitched
Well-Known Member
the government is not obligated to share classified information with the general public.
is that hard to understand?
they shared it with the proper authority and that proper authority said it was ok.
so anyone else complaining that they don't know covert information has a choice, they can stfu or get high government security clearance.
No, last time I read the Constitution, the government works for ME.
bewitched
Well-Known Member
if you believe that good for you.
go walk up to a cop and tell him that.
just because you pay taxes it doesn't mean that you make the rules... or calls on any particular important matter.
glad you value the Constitution, it's a great document.
Hang on. No one ever said that ALL governmental information is to be kept from the public, nor did anyone say that NO governmental information is to be kept from the public.
This issue has become a public issue, and the government has to treat it that way.
This issue has become a public issue, and the government has to treat it that way.
bewitched
Well-Known Member
CIA tapes are not public information. never have been. Gitmo is a classified prison.
the government issued a statement that says: Bush doesn't remember any tapes.
end of story.
so what is it that you really want to know?
that Bush is a crook?
that Gitmo tortures?
that the CIA are tough guys?
the exact methods of torture?
be specific.
Popeye
Well-Known Member
so what is it that you really want to know?-Everything
that Bush is a crook?-Already been proved
that Gitmo tortures?-Gitmo is a disgrace
that the CIA are tough guys?-many seem to fit the definition of bullies, not tough guys.
the exact methods of torture?-exactly
bewitched
Well-Known Member
you can't know everything, ever. that's the rules
f*ck Bush.
Gitmo was scheduled to be demolished... but AQ, suicide plane.
CIA, bullies, tough guys... yeah. they work their asses off.
exact methods of torture vary... whatever it takes to get information from a detainee within the laws of the US. in the event that someone like Kalid Shiek Mohammed won't talk... which he sang like a canary... it just took suggestion of torture. if someone in Iraq has been planting IEDs that have killed 5 of our troops... it might take a little man-handling.
some think they should use pork suppositories on some of the bastards.
in any case... if it's not your job to extract information then why is it your business? people break the law daily, go stop drug traffickers in your neighborhood if you want to be a hero.
bewitched
Well-Known Member
question:
if Abu Zubaydah was any part (bystander, ordered and trained and participated) of beheading Daniel Pearl, who was uncovering that the ISI, Musharaff was involved with AQ, then should he be tortured a little?
if Daniel Pearl told him anything while in the custody of AQ operatives then don't you think the info on those tapes might be dangerous to those agents involved? and their families?
or you just worried about the Constitution and not real life?
if Abu Zubaydah was any part (bystander, ordered and trained and participated) of beheading Daniel Pearl, who was uncovering that the ISI, Musharaff was involved with AQ, then should he be tortured a little?
if Daniel Pearl told him anything while in the custody of AQ operatives then don't you think the info on those tapes might be dangerous to those agents involved? and their families?
or you just worried about the Constitution and not real life?
Popeye
Well-Known Member
First off, this country has lost credibility, and now the moral high ground by advocating and using torture.
You don't care about the Constitution? What do you suggest, it be trashed whenever an episode of your defined "real life" crops up?
bewitched
Well-Known Member
so the reputation of the US is of the most utmost importance... in your mind?
and somehow it's the daily job of all the US citizens to fight for the Constitution for no specific reason?
not the kidnapping, torture, beheading of US citizens or things like 911?
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Popeye
Well-Known Member
This country is founded on the Constitution, it's our most important document. You speak of it like it gets in the way.
How many citizens, innocent civilians, has the US killed throughout the world ? I trust it comes to a lot more than 9/11.
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