Are you scientifically literate?

[orogenicman]

Project Independence iwas a reaction to the 1973 oil embargo. When the embargo was lifted, the project was killed. What does that have to do with anything?

 

[orogenicman]

The graph you posted showing the amount spent on renewable energy is chump change, dude. We spend serval times more than that on pizza every year. How do you expect renewables to acheive any significant gains with pennies on the dollar? Yes we are broke. A lot of the reason why we are broke is the huge amount of our national treasure that is being spent on foreign energy supplies, nearly 22 percent of it spent in the Persian Gulf alone. If we could develop alternatives to replace much of that, and spend the money right here in our own country, that would create jobs here and reduce our trade imbalance and our dependency on foreign oil.

The only part of the private sector with the capital is the petroleum industry and they have no vested interest in alternative energy. Now, one solution would be to tax them and use that money to invest in alternatives. But then, the oil conpanies would simply pass on the cost to taxpayers anyway, so what's the point of that? It only gives them more control. Given a choice, I would prefer the government to be in control, not Exxon-Mobile.

 

[palerider]

I'm a geologist, dude. I've spent weeks in the wilds collecting data,..........

So you claim and yet, you make a large number of very fundamental errors like claiming that a gas can absorb and retain IR energy. And you are apparently completely unaware of laboratory experiments proving that oil can be created sans organic materials even though this has been common knowledged for 50 years.

 

[palerider]

Certain they can put a dent in it.

No they can't. Not even the tiniest scratch.

 

[palerider]

Yeah? Well, we saw what a success the free markets were in the fincancial collapse, and during the Enron years.

What you saw was the effect of over regulation. That's all.

 

[GenSeneca]

Yeah? Well, we saw what a success the free markets were in the fincancial collapse, and during the Enron years.

Both are examples of fraud. In a free market, the government is limited to protecting the public from force and fraud, that is not what happened. In both examples, government was actively participating in the fraud. What you cite are not examples of the free market, they are examples of government sanctioned fraud.

Why do conservatives hail tax breaks and tax incentives for small businesses in general but not alternative energy start ups?

I don't know about the Conservatives but as a Capitalist, I support tax cuts - a no strings attached reduction of the tax rate - I do not support tax breaks and incentives as they are conditional - Government mandates a business must do X in order to qualify for a tax break or incentive. That kind of government intervention is a violation of free market principles.

 

[orogenicman]

So you claim and yet, you make a large number of very fundamental errors like claiming that a gas can absorb and retain IR energy. And you are apparently completely unaware of laboratory experiments proving that oil can be created sans organic materials even though this has been common knowledged for 50 years.

I never made that claim, PR. That was your assumption. And any claim I make is not mine alone, but that of the scientific community at large, since neither you nor I have conducted any of this research. What they are saying is that greenhouse gases (of which CO2 is only one present in the atmosphere) block the transmission of infrared emissions back into space once it reaches the surface/lower atmosphere. As for the experiments demonstration the production of light hydrocarbons (ethan, propane, etc) from a partial reaction of already existing methane at mantle conditions, I've already addressed that research in another thread.

 

[orogenicman]

No they can't. Not even the tiniest scratch.

And why is that? Are you suggesting that there is not enough wind or solar energy that can be tasked to do the job?

 

[orogenicman]

What you saw was the effect of over regulation. That's all.

No, what we saw was the effect of NO regulation. Revisionism isn't going to change the facts, dude.

 

[orogenicman]

"Both are examples of fraud. In a free market, the government is limited to protecting the public from force and fraud, that is not what happened. In both examples, government was actively participating in the fraud. What you cite are not examples of the free market, they are examples of government sanctioned fraud."

Really? And what government employee was arrested and charged with participating in this fraud?

 

[orogenicman]

"I don't know about the Conservatives but as a Capitalist, I support tax cuts - a no strings attached reduction of the tax rate - I do not support tax breaks and incentives as they are conditional - Government mandates a business must do X in order to qualify for a tax break or incentive. That kind of government intervention is a violation of free market principles. "

First of all, why wouldn't they be conditional? Secondly, since you do not support tax breaks and incentives, I assume that this means that you will not be using all those deductions that are available to you in the tax code, and will be writing a letter to your Congressman to ask him to stop supporting the oil industry with tax breaks and incentives. Right?

 

[Gipper]

I don't know about the Conservatives but as a Capitalist...

Oh noooo.. Gen you must realize how awful that statement is. It can not stand...

Off to Siberia with you.

 

[GenSeneca]

I know what you're going to say, "We haven't spent enough money!!!" That's what you guys always say.

the amount spent on renewable energy is chump change

I know these people like every square inch of my glorious naked body.

We spend serval times more than that on pizza every year.

We don't subsidize pizza parlors and we don't issue tax breaks for people who order pizza... There is simply no comparing what the general public voluntarily spends on pizza and what the taxpayers are forced to pay through government subsidies to the renewable energy industry.

How do you expect renewables to acheive any significant gains with pennies on the dollar?

So long as the technology remains inferior to traditional sources of energy, they will fail without massive government subsidies.

If renewable technology were superior, or even comparable, to traditional sources of energy, renewables wouldn't need a dime from the taxpayer because every private investor would be beating down the door to throw money at it.

Yes we are broke.

And your Keynesian solution is to spend our way out of debt.

A lot of the reason why we are broke is the huge amount of our national treasure that is being spent on foreign energy supplies...

Your fallacious conclusions are based on a single false premise:

False Premise - Trade deficits are bad.

Someone convinced you that trade deficits are bad. From there, it was easy to convince you that private sector purchases of foreign products magically increases the national debt of our government.

Your premise, and therefore all your conclusions based on that premise, are fallacious and unsupportable.

The only part of the private sector with the capital is the petroleum industry

Besides the fact that your statement is a lie, by what right are you entitled to use force to take what you didn't earn?

Now, one solution would be to tax them and use that money to invest in alternatives.

Government already does that and while it is legal, it is unjust and immoral for government to do so.

The result of that policy is higher gas prices which result in higher profits for the oil companies, which pisses off people like you who then demand we tax them more and repeat the cycle ad infinatum and all because of your irrational hatred of oil companies and your ignorance of how a business operates.

But then, the oil conpanies would simply pass on the cost to taxpayers anyway, so what's the point of that?

That's how it works with taxes on any business, which is why we shouldn't tax business at all. We already tax individuals so corporate taxes are just a form of double taxation.

Given a choice, I would prefer the government to be in control, not Exxon-Mobile.

So nationalize the oil companies and get it over with... No more oil companies trying to block alternatives... All their capital would be in the hands of government... Couldn't you justify nationalizing the oil companies as being for the greater good of the country? Wouldn't that be the fastest way to get what you want?

 

[GenSeneca]

Government sanctioned fraud

Really? And what government employee was arrested and charged with participating in this fraud?

Sanctioned:
1. Give official permission or approval for (an action).

 

[GenSeneca]

No, what we saw was the effect of NO regulation.

So just one example of regulation would prove that you're either a liar or just plain wrong...

The Community Reinvestment Act (CRA), enacted by Congress in 1977 (12 U.S.C. 2901) and implemented by Regulations 12 CFR parts 25, 228, 345, and 563e, is intended to encourage depository institutions to help meet the credit needs of the communities in which they operate. In this section of the web site, you can find out more about the regulation and its interpretation and information on CRA examinations.

That particular act is greatly responsible for lenders relaxing their policies concerning home loans... It's also proof that regulations were in place.

So which is it, are you a liar, or were you just plain wrong?