73% support the "Buffett Rule"

VAT is not a consumption tax. Sales tax is more like it.



23% does it and while you would not believe it (without reading the research) the cost of things would not really change given the underlying invisible taxes we all currently pay that are a component of the price you now see. Sounds crazy but once you educate yourself, crazy is exactly how the current maze of a tax code we currently have is.



Pollution is illegal and rightly so as it produces definable damage to others. No discouraging required. It would also be in the best interests of the country to discourage non-marital sex, conspicuous consumption, immorality of any kind and a host of other things. Are you sure that a bar you want to set ?

If we could really substitute the current taxes with a simple 23% sales tax, I'd be all for it. Would it really be on everything, though? On, real estate, medical care, services, everything? I think there would be a lot of cheating, but then, there's a lot of cheating now.

I'm not sure how you would tax non marital sex, however your sales tax would do the trick for conspicuous consumption.
 
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Would this report from the American Psychological Association do? Or do you need a reference from Fox News or Limbaugh to believe it?
No that does not do. You were asked to quantify how many of the poor represents a good portion. Clearly you have to tell us how many of the poor are disabled and unable to compete. The quote you provided did not give that statistic.
You are correct, security is NEVER a certainty. . .however, living EVERYDAY without knowing where the next meal will come from and depending on "charity" for survival is a little more stressful than getting into one's Lexus and knowing that one could have a fatal accident, or getting to an airport, passying "security" and still wondering if the plane will be highjacked or crash!

Again you seem to be thinkin of charity as standing on the street corner hoping for pennies.

Charity is very often a specific agency that a person has a long term relationship with.
 
I understand that a gov would want to. But does it have the authority to?

It does have the authority to punish wrongdoers. One could argue that a polluter is a wrongdoer. A smoker is a wrongdoer but the argument is shaky. Is an obese person a wrongdoer? Only in socialized medicine.

No, even if our gov wants to and even if it is for the most benevolent of reasons it simply does not have the authority to use the tax code to discourage or encourage anything to do with obesity.

I suppose not.

yet, obesity is rapidly becoming the number 1 health issue in this country.

and they say we have hunger in the US?
 
Let's see how that would play out:

1. A company borrows money to grow and operate.
2. It sells a product and has a choice to roll the money back into operations or to take a profit and pay back the investors who allowed it to operate in the first place.
3. If it rolls too much money back into operations it cannot pay back investors (who for the most part are you and me in our 401k's).
4. Then investors will not invest in companies and they won't be able to grow and operate.


There is no such thing as a social contact. If there were it would be invalid since a contract requires that one consent to it and have an option to get out of it. There is such a thing as a constitution though.
Wow, not much thought on that. Putting the money back into the business instead of paying out huge salaries to execs and perpetuating false hope to dividend and shareholders is not sound business, but it is what happened all through the last decade. By reinvesting in the company instead of moving money around in a shell game to maximize the idea that growth is happening is what got us in the situation we are in. Investors have gotten to the point that what was considered a reasonable profit in the 80's is now substandard. In the 90's a huge boom took over after the 1989 recession, when it petered out in 2000 companies took to lying, cheating and floating unstable securities to match the margins they had in the 90's (Enron and Worldcom)-this is what led to the huge bubble on Wall Street. I have also heard of people that don't believe in social contracts, these are people that believe that business and profit are more important the the health of a nation or it's people. Never seeing the long view of what this does to the society they profit from it usually leads to great upheaval. They believe that a healthy business will automatically lead to a healthy populace, they have completely forgotten the history of the industrial revolution here in the US and the living standards of the time.
 
Would this report from the American Psychological Association do? Or do you need a reference from Fox News or Limbaugh to believe it?

No numbers and only states the obvious.

Well, do you think this is why the tea party would love to go back a few generations? Because "life was so much better and fairer then?"

has to do with getting the government closer to Constitutional authority.

You are correct, security is NEVER a certainty. . .however, living EVERYDAY without knowing where the next meal will come from and depending on "charity" for survival is a little more stressful than getting into one's Lexus and knowing that one could have a fatal accident, or getting to an airport, passying "security" and still wondering if the plane will be highjacked or crash!

so freedom from stress is Constitutionally guaranteed ?

Many of the poor have in fact nothing much to lose. . .only their life! I guess we all know how stressful it is to risk losing 50% of our 401K if the stock market crash! That is soooo much more stressful than. . .not having a 401K! :rolleyes:

Man you really must live fat dumb and happy if you think these are the4 dangers we all face. this country is very close to suffering a depression far worse than the 30's and Obama is hell bent for leather to achieve it.
 
um...so we take that 3.7 trillion dollar budget, trim the .7 (to make the math easier), and divvy it up evenly among the nation's 300 million, everyone pays ten grand apiece, and all is well.

Is that really what you're suggesting?

Flat tax... Everyone pays the same %, it's still "Progressive" in the sense that the richer you are the more money you actually pay but every single person pays the exact same % of their income. That is the text book definition of FAIR.
 
Flat tax... Everyone pays the same %, it's still "Progressive" in the sense that the richer you are the more money you actually pay but every single person pays the exact same % of their income. That is the text book definition of FAIR.

That would no doubt be more fair than what we have now, as long as it really meant the same percent of all net income, regardless of source. Is that what you mean?
 
Flat tax... Everyone pays the same %, it's still "Progressive" in the sense that the richer you are the more money you actually pay but every single person pays the exact same % of their income. That is the text book definition of FAIR.


So, you think it is fair for a family of 4 making $22,000 a year to pay $2,200 in taxes, and be left (after working full time, sometime 2 jobs) with $19,800 to pay their housing, their food, their health care, their transportation, and . . .obviously, save to be able to send their kids to college, so they can have "equal opportunity" to become millionaires. ..

when another family of 4, making $22 millions a year pays $2.2 millions in tax, and is left to raise their kids, pay their mansion's mortgage, their Lexus and their Mercedes, their Summer beach house, their health care (including cosmetic surgery!), their home designers, their jewelers, and their yachts with ONLY $19.8 MILLIONS?

Yep. . .I can see this is very fair: a family of 4 surviving on less than $20,000 a year, and a family of 4 surviving on less than $20 millions a year.

That's perfectly fair!!!!:rolleyes:
 
Fair Tax.
You would trust politicians to have a Constitutional Convention?

The legislation is already written and its impossible to game as written.
There is nothing to stop politicians from increasing the prebate to $30k per year... That way every American would have a guaranteed income of $30k. I'm sure if they asked the American people, an overwhelming majority would be in favor of raising the prebate to such a level, or even higher.
 
So, you think it is fair for a family of 4 making $22,000 a year to pay $2,200 in taxes

Yes, because as I've already demonstrated, such a family would be getting at least $10,000 in government assistance. If I wanted to push the point, I could probably show that such a family could even exceed their income of $22,000 with government benefits, bringing their total to $44,000 when you count their benefits.

Asking someone to pay $2,200 to get back at least $10,000 in benefits is not unreasonable.
 
So, you think it is fair for a family of 4 making $22,000 a year to pay $2,200 in taxes, and be left (after working full time, sometime 2 jobs) with $19,800 to pay their housing, their food, their health care, their transportation, and . . .obviously, save to be able to send their kids to college, so they can have "equal opportunity" to become millionaires. ..

when another family of 4, making $22 millions a year pays $2.2 millions in tax, and is left to raise their kids, pay their mansion's mortgage, their Lexus and their Mercedes, their Summer beach house, their health care (including cosmetic surgery!), their home designers, their jewelers, and their yachts with ONLY $19.8 MILLIONS?

Yep. . .I can see this is very fair: a family of 4 surviving on less than $20,000 a year, and a family of 4 surviving on less than $20 millions a year.

That's perfectly fair!!!!:rolleyes:

When you factor in payroll taxes and the capital gains rates, that's probably pretty close to what they're paying under the current system.

or were until the Obama tax cuts took effect.
 
That would no doubt be more fair than what we have now, as long as it really meant the same percent of all net income, regardless of source. Is that what you mean?
Yes... a flat tax on all income, regardless of source, and without any deductions.
 
When you factor in payroll taxes and the capital gains rates, that's probably pretty close to what they're paying under the current system.

or were until the Obama tax cuts took effect.


Well, thanks to Obama, at least workers with a smaller income benefitted more from the payroll tax breaks. . .because it means SO MUCH MORE in term of percentage of their income!

And that's the way it should be.

The "fair tax" reminds me of an obese man, ordering 5 big macs for himself, and a small fries for his kid. . .because his kid is so much smaller, he doesn't need so much food!
 
Yes... a flat tax on all income, regardless of source, and without any deductions.

So someone makes 15,000 a year, with a kid...tax them ...23%? For what reason? so they can be so poor then need goverment help...so we tax them huge amounts so the goverment can give it back?

Also all the flat tax crap, is just that crap...If it really made it so the rich payed more...then they would be all against it..and thus, would never happen.
 
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The "fair tax" reminds me of an obese man, ordering 5 big macs for himself, and a small fries for his kid. . .because his kid is so much smaller, he doesn't need so much food!
If you were open minded enough to learn more about the "Fair Tax" you'd probably like it... for all the reasons that I think it's bad idea, like the generous "prebate" system. I imagine you'd probably like the idea of giving every single American a government check for something like $12k every year.

http://www.fairtax.org/site/PageServer
 
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