Why I Voted Obama in the 2012 Election

[Openmind]

You believe his B.S did you? The samething the Germans believed Hitlers B.S that got him put in power.

No, Steveox. It is you and your friends who believe the BS.

I tried to tell you. . .but arrogance kept you from accepting the FACT that the Fox News' has brainwashed you and that their nastiness and constant attacks on the President have turned MANY good Republicans (without even talking about Independents and Democrats) away from the Republican party.

 

[Openmind]

This statement is not really quantifiable -- we could have also been much better without Obama at the wheel, there is really no definiative proof either way. So essentially, you voted based on a feeling that is not quantifiable.

Another way I read this statement is that you voted for President Obama because when asked if you were better off now than four years ago -- you answered with a "I don't really know -- but maybe."

As a Romney supporter I am somewhat encouraged by this -- because if you are at least asking that question to yourself, many people probably are -- and I think that will benefit Romney overall.

The fact is that MANY People feel that they are better than 4 years ago. . .just because President Obama has put us on an UPWARD trend, when Bush had taken on a quick slide to possible destruction.

And. . .I don't think Romney will benefit from much of anything from now on! It looks like his chances to make it to 270 electoral votes from here are almost non-existant. Even the hard Republican talking head on CNN (the one with the moustache, don't know his name) admitted so much. . .almost crying, with his voice breaking!

 

[Openmind]

So its a matter of you vote for the person who can do the least damage - yea, logical I guess.

Believe it or not, people do remember about voting for Bush and his policies. . .and the "lesser of two evils" sounds pretty good right now!

But, obviously for me, Obama has NEVER been the "lesser of two evils." He is the BEST.

 

[Openmind]

How could things be worse? Economy is still in the dumpster, unemployment at record numbers, American soldiers dying in meaningless wars half way around the world. I can't think of one thing that Obama has fixed - unless you like ObamaCare.

Most people ask themselves if they are better off, and, if not they vote for the other guy. With your logic, there is no way that Romney would ever get your vote.

We could be back to September 2008. . .

Were you better off then? If you were, it's probably because you didn't see the CONSEQUENCES of September 2008 coming!

 

[BigRob]

The fact is that MANY People feel that they are better than 4 years ago. . .just because President Obama has put us on an UPWARD trend, when Bush had taken on a quick slide to possible destruction.

People do indeed apparently feel that way.

And. . .I don't think Romney will benefit from much of anything from now on! It looks like his chances to make it to 270 electoral votes from here are almost non-existant. Even the hard Republican talking head on CNN (the one with the moustache, don't know his name) admitted so much. . .almost crying, with his voice breaking!

Yes, I have been telling anyone who asked me all along that Romney was probably going to lose -- and that seems to to be confirmed at this point.

 

[strongservice]

No, Steveox. It is you and your friends who believe the BS.

I tried to tell you. . .but arrogance kept you from accepting the FACT that the Fox News' has brainwashed you and that their nastiness and constant attacks on the President have turned MANY good Republicans (without even talking about Independents and Democrats) away from the Republican party.

It was the young vote that they totally ignored--I sat in a room full of first time voters 18-twenty something who were very proud of their first experience voting .

 

[BigRob]

It was the young vote that they totally ignored--I sat in a room full of first time voters 18-twenty something who were very proud of their first experience voting .

I think Republicans will always struggle to an extent with younger people. Let's face it, many of these people are idealistic, have never really had a job, don't make much money, are saddled with debt, and the perception is that Democrats are "cool" and Republicans are just "old white men."

We need to change the brand's perception to start making inroads here I think.

 

[cashmcall]

The re-election of Obama after 4 years of great economic failure is immensely disturbing. It suggests that no conservative can now be elected President. With the media, most minorites and the 47% behind them, are the Democrats now unbeatable? It seems likely. It seems that America's decline is now well underway and is may be irreversible. I am glad I am not looking a job -- jerry david

Defeat offers clarity. If we had any doubts as to our position, this election put an end to them. Those of us who continue to oppose the fiscal and constitutional overreach of the modern social state now find ourselves in the wilderness.

Insofar as politics are concerned, the best the center-right in America can do, in the foreseeable future, is to act as a check on folly in the political arena, and in doing so hope to prove Macaulay wrong when he said that the American Republic would fail because the poor would plunder the rich and increase the country’s distress by devouring the “seed-corn” of future growth.

 

[Hobo1]

Another problem with the Republicans is the candidates that run for president. If I were a successful businessman, clever, and knowledgeable of the roll of government, capitalism, and democracy in our system, I would never run for President. First, like Romney, I use every loophole and deduction possible on my taxes - so my taxes would be criticized by most voters who don't under the first thing about tax code.

I have had more than my share of affairs and divorces; I don't go to church; and I would talk about what I think is right - not criticize the other candidates.

Finally, I am not going to spend a year and a half going through the process of running all over the country, fund raising and campaigning. That's too much work for a crummy job.

So for any Republican who would make a good candidate, it is too much trouble.

Originally, the founding fathers must have realized that when they created the Electoral College. They gave the States the power to choose people to go to the Electoral College where they could debate and independently choose a good President. No politics, no political parties, no running around, just look over the good managers in the country and select the best man. So damn logical.

 

[cashmcall]

Hobo..You might be on to something..

 

[Openmind]

It was the young vote that they totally ignored--I sat in a room full of first time voters 18-twenty something who were very proud of their first experience voting .

Yes, I agree. And the Jewish votes, and the women votes. . .
But certainly the youths vote.

In fact, the Republicans have no chance to regain much ground in the future IF THEY DO NOT MOVE TOWARD THE CENTER, because, let's face it, the Republican basis (heavy on elderly White males) is LITERALLY DYING.

While the Democrat basis (a much younger, extremely diverse in terms not only of race, but also culture, religious background and sexual orientation) is LITERALLY GROWING.

If the Republicans continue to let the tea party and hyper religious extremes (the tail) black mail (wag) the other, more reasonable and logical section of the party (the dog), instead of attracting some of the younger voters, the more diverse voters and the more educated voters, they will push the Independents further to the Left. And the Republicans party as we knew it even 15 years ago will be dead in one more generation!

 

[Openmind]

I think Republicans will always struggle to an extent with younger people. Let's face it, many of these people are idealistic, have never really had a job, don't make much money, are saddled with debt, and the perception is that Democrats are "cool" and Republicans are just "old white men."

We need to change the brand's perception to start making inroads here I think.

I agree with part of your comment, but the way you express it makes it sound absolutely fake and dishonest, which is one of the BIG problem the Republican party faces. . a problem that has been compounded and amplified by the dishonest propaganda and the misleading half truth and total lies spewed by Fox and the likes of Limbaugh and Coulter.

First: it is true that young people are idealistic, but you make it sound as a negative, when it is our only hope for the future. . .that our youth will continue to raise their eyes UP to ideals, rather than DOWN to the (often) dirty water of reality.

Second, when you say that, in the youth's perception, Democrats are "cool" and Republicans are just "old white men," well. . .that is a little more than PERCEPTION, and very close to the reality!
Republicans (mostly old white men, trying very hard to "appear" not quite as white and not quite as old by courting the "token" Blacks (West) and the "token" hispanics (Rubio) and the "token" women (Palin) do not think that diversity is "cool." They still believe in White man's superiority, even over White women.
Well, that is NOT COOL! It is retarded and it doesn't meet the "equal rights" of our Constitution!

In the other hand, the Democrats basis is MADE UP of DIVERSITY of all kinds (racial, religious, gender, sexual orientation, social classes). And IT IS COOL. And it does meet the "equal rights" of our constitution!

Third: when you say: "We need to change the brand's perception" it REALLY sounds fake! It basically says that, you don't have to change the way you look at America (from the "White, male America" is the "real" America, to "DIVERSITY IS GREAT" and is the BASIS on which America was founded), but that you only have to change the "PERCEPTION" . . .that sounds so absolutely fake! In fact, I'm sorry to say because I do respect you, and I do believe you don't really met it that way (but many others will mean it that way!) it is exactly the "REALITY" of what Republicans have always done. . .and the most recent example was Romney!

To the Republican basis, during the primaries, he offered "the perception" of being far right and to buy into all the extreme prejudices and religion base ideologies of the tea party and fundamental Christians. . .
Then, because he is relatively smart (or his handlers are relatively smart), he abandoned that "perception" and presented a NEW PERCEPTION that would be more attractive to the less extreme (more reasonable) Republicans, the Independents, and even some Democrats. . .

The problem with that is that, people are NOT stupid! At least young, educated people, and most Democrats (and "balanced Republicans) are not stupid! And when you offer merely a "perception" instead of the REAL THING, it shows. For people who have not been tainted by continued lies and propaganda, it creates an unconscious discomfort while watching those "shows," and, even if most people do not know exactly why they feel uncomfortable, why they get a little colder, less enthusiastic every time they hear another "canned speech" and a bunch of platitude, even if they see a couple of Black faces and a half dozen of women in a see of men while watching a convention or a political event, they realize that something doesn't add up.

They are experiencing cognitive dissonance.

So, I don't think that the Republican party can be successful in attracting more voters to their ranks UNLESS they shoot much higher than changing the "perception" of voters. They will have to RALLY CHANGE THE AGENDA AND THEIR OUTDATED ATTITUDE AND ATTACHMENT to the "White male supremacy" and the "USA AS A SOLELY CHRISTIAN NATION."

Basically. . .they'll have to be a little more like the Democrats!

 

[BigRob]

I agree with part of your comment, but the way you express it makes it sound absolutely fake and dishonest, which is one of the BIG problem the Republican party faces. . a problem that has been compounded and amplified by the dishonest propaganda and the misleading half truth and total lies spewed by Fox and the likes of Limbaugh and Coulter.

First: it is true that young people are idealistic, but you make it sound as a negative, when it is our only hope for the future. . .that our youth will continue to raise their eyes UP to ideals, rather than DOWN to the (often) dirty water of reality.

Nothing wrong with being idealistic, but I think right out of college (or in college), I think the argument can be made that the average youth does not think through the implications of much of anything -- point being, "free this and that -- great" -- rather than "free this and that -- well who is really paying for it etc"

Second, when you say that, in the youth's perception, Democrats are "cool" and Republicans are just "old white men," well. . .that is a little more than PERCEPTION, and very close to the reality!
Republicans (mostly old white men, trying very hard to "appear" not quite as white and not quite as old by courting the "token" Blacks (West) and the "token" hispanics (Rubio) and the "token" women (Palin) do not think that diversity is "cool." They still believe in White man's superiority, even over White women.
Well, that is NOT COOL! It is retarded and it doesn't meet the "equal rights" of our Constitution!

I think this is a perfect example of the negative perception of the brand. You state that Republicans still believe in "White man's superiority, even over white women." I don't think this is true at all, I certainly don't believe it -- but clearly the perception is there.

In the other hand, the Democrats basis is MADE UP of DIVERSITY of all kinds (racial, religious, gender, sexual orientation, social classes). And IT IS COOL. And it does meet the "equal rights" of our constitution!

Third: when you say: "We need to change the brand's perception" it REALLY sounds fake! It basically says that, you don't have to change the way you look at America (from the "White, male America" is the "real" America, to "DIVERSITY IS GREAT" and is the BASIS on which America was founded), but that you only have to change the "PERCEPTION" . . .that sounds so absolutely fake! In fact, I'm sorry to say because I do respect you, and I do believe you don't really met it that way (but many others will mean it that way!) it is exactly the "REALITY" of what Republicans have always done. . .and the most recent example was Romney!

My point is that I believe the Republicans have good issues to stand on -- these issues get distorted, hijacked, or otherwise taken over by the minority and are then misrepresented.

The majority of Republicans don't look at the world the way far right does in my opinion. I believe that the majority of Republicans are extremely open to diversity, and the perception is that they are not...I believe the perception is wrong, and needs to be changed...not because I just want the perception changed, but because I believe that perception only represents a small minority of the party.

To the Republican basis, during the primaries, he offered "the perception" of being far right and to buy into all the extreme prejudices and religion base ideologies of the tea party and fundamental Christians. . .
Then, because he is relatively smart (or his handlers are relatively smart), he abandoned that "perception" and presented a NEW PERCEPTION that would be more attractive to the less extreme (more reasonable) Republicans, the Independents, and even some Democrats. . .

I can't argue that the primary process didn't do him any favors.

The problem with that is that, people are NOT stupid! At least young, educated people, and most Democrats (and "balanced Republicans) are not stupid! And when you offer merely a "perception" instead of the REAL THING, it shows. For people who have not been tainted by continued lies and propaganda, it creates an unconscious discomfort while watching those "shows," and, even if most people do not know exactly why they feel uncomfortable, why they get a little colder, less enthusiastic every time they hear another "canned speech" and a bunch of platitude, even if they see a couple of Black faces and a half dozen of women in a see of men while watching a convention or a political event, they realize that something doesn't add up.

They are experiencing cognitive dissonance.

In my view, Romney was the centrist moderate that he claimed to be in the general election. The problem is of course the primary, and that was not going to get him nominated. The Obama campaign did a good job defining him based on that. He had to do it -- and it cost him.

So, I don't think that the Republican party can be successful in attracting more voters to their ranks UNLESS they shoot much higher than changing the "perception" of voters. They will have to RALLY CHANGE THE AGENDA AND THEIR OUTDATED ATTITUDE AND ATTACHMENT to the "White male supremacy" and the "USA AS A SOLELY CHRISTIAN NATION."

Basically. . .they'll have to be a little more like the Democrats!

See my main argument is that I think the majority of Republicans don't view the world in the manner you perceive that all Republicans do. It is not that we need to change our world view (for the most part) -- it is that we need to fight the preconceived notions on our world view, and do a better job defing ourselves.

 

[Openmind]

Nothing wrong with being idealistic, but I think right out of college (or in college), I think the argument can be made that the average youth does not think through the implications of much of anything -- point being, "free this and that -- great" -- rather than "free this and that -- well who is really paying for it etc"



I think this is a perfect example of the negative perception of the brand. You state that Republicans still believe in "White man's superiority, even over white women." I don't think this is true at all, I certainly don't believe it -- but clearly the perception is there.



My point is that I believe the Republicans have good issues to stand on -- these issues get distorted, hijacked, or otherwise taken over by the minority and are then misrepresented.

The majority of Republicans don't look at the world the way far right does in my opinion. I believe that the majority of Republicans are extremely open to diversity, and the perception is that they are not...I believe the perception is wrong, and needs to be changed...not because I just want the perception changed, but because I believe that perception only represents a small minority of the party.



I can't argue that the primary process didn't do him any favors.



In my view, Romney was the centrist moderate that he claimed to be in the general election. The problem is of course the primary, and that was not going to get him nominated. The Obama campaign did a good job defining him based on that. He had to do it -- and it cost him.



See my main argument is that I think the majority of Republicans don't view the world in the manner you perceive that all Republicans do. It is not that we need to change our world view (for the most part) -- it is that we need to fight the preconceived notions on our world view, and do a better job defing ourselves.

I believe that, several times in my last posts and in other posts, I have made a clear difference between the "extreme, tea party, hyper religious Right" and the "reasonable, balanced" Republicans. Did you miss that?

But, if the Republican basis is not primarely the "older, White, Christian man" how do you explain the show at the Republican convention? I think that pictures are worth a thousand words, and when you look at the recording of the convention, and the pictures. . .It is overwhelmingly VANILLA with a few specks of chocolate mint! (and no, that is NOT my favorite ice cream! LOL

And I do not agree that college students are not concerned or aware of politics and the consequences of policies.
I attended college as a re-entry student so, in spite of my age, this time is not so far behind (I was already 46 when I graduated with a Master degree). And I can assure you that college students have a LOT MORE opportunities to discuss and to study politics than most middle age factory workers, housewives, or isolated retired people most of which get their information ONLY from biased media and remembers only the most often repeated canned propaganda. On the contrary, College students are also in the process of ABSORBING a lot of information, they are INTIMATELY familiar with how to research an issue, how to debate an issue, how to back up a position. They are TRAINED to use CRITICAL THINKING and not to confond "ear say" with "facts" until they get some back up, legitimate confirmation (or rejection) of what they are being told Basically, it is their JOB during those few years of their life! But. . .I have to admit that I spend 4 years at a University of California campus, then 2 years at a State College, still in CA.
And, before several of you start to denigrate "California" higher education, you better be aware that students graduating from the obviously liberal university in that system are highly regarded and pursued by Ivy leagues and more traditional East Coast university in order to help "open the mind" of the often slightly "constipated" youths in the Ivy league Vanilla cream student body!
And maybe it is the reason why I give so much credit to all youths. . .I know that the youths I studied with were INFINITLY better informed than most of my peer in age, social class, and culture!


See. . .even THAT attitude of condescending dismissal of the youths demonstrates how very far even a GOOD, intelligent, and trying to be fair Republican has to go to open his mind! Can't you see that?

 

[BigRob]

I believe that, several times in my last posts and in other posts, I have made a clear difference between the "extreme, tea party, hyper religious Right" and the "reasonable, balanced" Republicans. Did you miss that?

Yes, I don't believe that the majority of the Republican party holds the views that you seemed to ascribe to them in the above post. I believe that polls back up that assertion.

But, if the Republican basis is not primarely the "older, White, Christian man" how do you explain the show at the Republican convention? I think that pictures are worth a thousand words, and when you look at the recording of the convention, and the pictures. . .It is overwhelmingly VANILLA with a few specks of chocolate mint! (and no, that is NOT my favorite ice cream! LOL

Just because the base is "old white men", does mean the base is old white racist men who want to force their wives into submission roles -- which you implied.

And I do not agree that college students are not concerned or aware of politics and the consequences of policies.
I attended college as a re-entry student so, in spite of my age, this time is not so far behind (I was already 46 when I graduated with a Master degree). And I can assure you that college students have a LOT MORE opportunities to discuss and to study politics than most middle age factory workers, housewives, or isolated retired people most of which get their information ONLY from biased media and remembers only the most often repeated canned propaganda. On the contrary, College students are also in the process of ABSORBING a lot of information, they are INTIMATELY familiar with how to research an issue, how to debate an issue, how to back up a position. They are TRAINED to use CRITICAL THINKING and not to confond "ear say" with "facts" until they get some back up, legitimate confirmation (or rejection) of what they are being told Basically, it is their JOB during those few years of their life! But. . .I have to admit that I spend 4 years at a University of California campus, then 2 years at a State College, still in CA.
And, before several of you start to denigrate "California" higher education, you better be aware that students graduating from the obviously liberal university in that system are highly regarded and pursued by Ivy leagues and more traditional East Coast university in order to help "open the mind" of the often slightly "constipated" youths in the Ivy league Vanilla cream student body!
And maybe it is the reason why I give so much credit to all youths. . .I know that the youths I studied with were INFINITLY better informed than most of my peer in age, social class, and culture!

See. . .even THAT attitude of condescending dismissal of the youths demonstrates how very far even a GOOD, intelligent, and trying to be fair Republican has to go to open his mind! Can't you see that?

Certainly there are intelligent young people -- no one disputes that. That said, in a general sense, you cannot expect to find a huge bloc of college age kids who know what it takes to start a business, make pay roll, raise a family etc.

A 19 year old is going to have a different set of priorities than a 50 year old -- that is self evident -- and those priorities will be less likely to line up with Republican ideology in my opinion. It is not condescending to make that point.