Who is responsible for the 9/11 attacks?

Who is responsible for the 9/11 attacks?


  • Total voters
    48
Gentelmen, and I use that term loosely, you have nothing but questions, speculation, accusations and most of all - sarcastic derision.

10 characteristics of conspiracy theorists
A useful guide by Donna Ferentes


1. Arrogance. They are always fact-seekers, questioners, people who are trying to discover the truth: sceptics are always "sheep", patsies for Messrs Bush and Blair etc.

2. Relentlessness. They will always go on and on about a conspiracy no matter how little evidence they have to go on or how much of what they have is simply discredited. (Moreover, as per 1. above, even if you listen to them ninety-eight times, the ninety-ninth time, when you say "no thanks", you'll be called a "sheep" again.) Additionally, they have no capacity for precis whatsoever. They go on and on at enormous length.

3. Inability to answer questions. For people who loudly advertise their determination to the principle of questioning everything, they're pretty poor at answering direct questions from sceptics about the claims that they make.

4. Fondness for certain stock phrases. These include Cicero's "cui bono?" (of which it can be said that Cicero understood the importance of having evidence to back it up) and Conan Doyle's "once we have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however unlikely, must be the truth". What these phrases have in common is that they are attempts to absolve themselves from any responsibility to produce positive, hard evidence themselves: you simply "eliminate the impossible" (i.e. say the official account can't stand scrutiny) which means that the wild allegation of your choice, based on "cui bono?" (which is always the government) is therefore the truth. [The emperor has no clothes, A defense department that FAILS to defend even its own HQ, False Flag Operation, etc. etc. Sound familiar Dawkins and Spam?]

5. Inability to employ or understand Occam's Razor. Aided by the principle in 4. above, conspiracy theorists never notice that the small inconsistencies in the accounts which they reject are dwarfed by the enormous, gaping holes in logic, likelihood and evidence in any alternative account.

6. Inability to tell good evidence from bad. Conspiracy theorists have no place for peer-review, for scientific knowledge, for the respectability of sources. The fact that a claim has been made by anybody, anywhere, is enough for them to reproduce it and demand that the questions it raises be answered, as if intellectual enquiry were a matter of responding to every rumour. While they do this, of course, they will claim to have "open minds" and abuse the sceptics for apparently lacking same.

7. Inability to withdraw. It's a rare day indeed when a conspiracy theorist admits that a claim they have made has turned out to be without foundation, whether it be the overall claim itself or any of the evidence produced to support it. Moreover they have a liking (see 3. above) for the technique of avoiding discussion of their claims by "swamping" - piling on a whole lot more material rather than respond to the objections sceptics make to the previous lot.

8. Leaping to conclusions. Conspiracy theorists are very keen indeed to declare the "official" account totally discredited without having remotely enough cause so to do. Of course this enables them to wheel on the Conan Doyle quote as in 4. above. Small inconsistencies in the account of an event, small unanswered questions, small problems in timing of differences in procedure from previous events of the same kind are all more than adequate to declare the "official" account clearly and definitively discredited. It goes without saying that it is not necessary to prove that these inconsistencies are either relevant, or that they even definitely exist.

9. Using previous conspiracies as evidence to support their claims. This argument invokes scandals like the Birmingham Six, the Bologna station bombings, the Zinoviev letter and so on in order to try and demonstrate that their conspiracy theory should be accorded some weight (because it's “happened before”.) They do not pause to reflect that the conspiracies they are touting are almost always far more unlikely and complicated than the real-life conspiracies with which they make comparison, or that the fact that something might potentially happen does not, in and of itself, make it anything other than extremely unlikely.

10. It's always a conspiracy. And it is, isn't it? No sooner has the body been discovered, the bomb gone off, than the same people are producing the same old stuff, demanding that there are questions which need to be answered, at the same unbearable length. Because the most important thing about these people is that they are people entirely lacking in discrimination. They cannot tell a good theory from a bad one, they cannot tell good evidence from bad evidence and they cannot tell a good source from a bad one. And for that reason, they always come up with the same answer when they ask the same question.

A person who always says the same thing, and says it over and over again is, of course, commonly considered to be, if not a monomaniac, then at very least, a bore.

Neither of you can discuss 9/11 using strict precepts of Logic YET you BOTH claim to be full of it... Well, you are full of something but its not logic. ;)
 
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I have reason and fact on my side.

The simple fact that nobody was disciplined for the worst failure in national security ever is sufficient grounds on its own to make a reasonable person wonder what is going on.

The FACT that ALL the fighter planes were somewhere else playing war games leaving NYC unprotected is both highly suspicious and a dereliction of duty.

There are hundreds of irregularities of this nature surrounding the evnts of 9/11 and a reasonable inquiring mind would want to know why.
 
Note for GenSeneca
In all fairness, the last post before yours had some VERY valid points about the failure of this nations Air Defense System and you post a question about the '93 attack.....

There are all sorts of points that can be made about the improbability of 19 suicidal Arabs carrying out the attack, such as, in the typical hijacking prior to 9/11 the Pilot of the aircraft ALWAYS flew the aircraft to the destination selected by the hijacker, at no time did the hijacker replace the Pilot at the controls of the aircraft. Pilots are CAPTAINS and as such are granted command authority over their aircraft, would a Captain just step aside and say "ok, you can fly my aircraft, I have no idea if you are qualified to control this aircraft, but go ahead and fly this bird" NOT logical! + the fact that in a situation where the hijacker had to remove a Pilot from his seat by force, give me a break, the tiny passageway into the cockpit and you have a Pilot and co-Pilot who will resist this radical Arab who is armed with a box cutter.

I'm sorry people, there are SO many things that are unlikely and improbable that stack up on 9/11.

One of the really big problems of all this, is that the mainstream media is a partner in crime with whoever the real perpetrators are. We used to have a 4th estate in this country, but GREED INC. purchased all the TV and Radio stations and the print media also and so the 4th estate doesn't exist in this country anymore.

There are so many first responders who have facts to give on this subject and what the "official" 9/11 commission did was REFUSE to take testamony from any of these people, where are the interviews with First Responders, and Air Traffic Controlers? Maybe somebody should get testamony from a RADAR operator at Andrews Air Base(?)

RULE OF LAW, and accountability!
Our own Commander in Chief has acted in ways that are CRIMINAL
or at the very least so incompetent that he should be instatutionalized for being a drooling idiot!

This is serious!
 
about that 1993 attack, really its difficult to know,
given that the mainstream media in AMERICA today
functions more like Pravda in the old USSR in the 1950s.

There is speculation that the 1993 bombing was a test run, like geologists set off explosions to learn more about the structure of the rocks and dirt in a given area, the 1993 blast could have been a test to see how the structure of the WTC tower would react to explosives.

HOWEVER, please let us at least attempt to focus on the topic at hand and that is in the title of this thread "Who is responsible for the 9/11 attacks"

Can
U
dig
it?
.
 
about that 1993 attack, really its difficult to know,
given that the mainstream media in AMERICA today
functions more like Pravda in the old USSR in the 1950s.

There is speculation that the 1993 bombing was a test run, like geologists set off explosions to learn more about the structure of the rocks and dirt in a given area, the 1993 blast could have been a test to see how the structure of the WTC tower would react to explosives.

HOWEVER, please let us at least attempt to focus on the topic at hand and that is in the title of this thread "Who is responsible for the 9/11 attacks"

Can
U
dig
it?
.


Nice dodge. Aside from accusing the media of being state run what else did we glean from your post?

You claim 1993 was a "test run." Interesting point, a test run by who exactly? Are you asserting that the Clinton administration teamed up with the Bush administration (who did not exist yet) to facilitate a war on Iraq 12 years later down the road?
 
Let us not forget that Bush Sr. was President before Clintoon, and there are several strange bits that I'd like to point out...
For one durring the Clintoon administration (in fact on Sept 11 1994)
A light plane crashed into the White House lawn, the assumed intent of the pilot was a suicide mission to kill the President, but Clintoon was not in the White House at the time. I read the New York Times account of the incedent and first of all, the mainstream media buried the story deep inside the newspaper only giving it a VERY small space, and within the story is a line something to the effect of "some radar operator at Andrews must have been having a bad day" ... Now an aircraft on an apparent suicide mission to kill the President and this also involves an apparant failure of our Air Defense System and this is news that gets a tiny collum buried inside the NYT and most people are blissfully unaware of the gravity of this situation. oops!

My thought on this subject is that the NEW WORLD ORDER has been at work for a LONG time and the idea that there is somehow this contest of Democrats VS Republicans only serves as a smoke screen to blind the public to the fact that it doesn't matter if the President is a Democrat or Republican, are they Skull&Bones members? are they members of CFR?
Do they have super wealthy friends who take them golfing or sailing and are these "friends" also on the boards of directors of major corporations such as GE, Haliburton, KBR, GM, Lockheed martin, Boeing ... etc...
Remember Ronie Raygun used to say "Progress is our most important product" advertising for GE and then he became Gov. of California and then President, and GE is a major player in the DEFENSE INDUSTRY ( Military Industrial Complex) . I get the impression that the people involved in this sort of thing are into VERY long range planning, if the real truth where to come out, it would not suprize me at all to learn that 9/11/2001 had been a decade or more in the planning. The NEW WORLD ORDER are also huge oportunists, and will take advantage of whatever is handy to further their cause.
A large part of the whole program is the destruction of hard currency,
(but thats a tangent an I wanted to keep this discussion as much as possible focused on 9/11/2001)

Bottom line here is that not just AMERICA but the world is in deep doo-doo!
Anyplace that uses industrial energy, even the "third world" with their large masses of people riding bicycles, the fact that the have bicycles means that they are using up industrial energy faster than their tiny ecomomy can pay for it, that is they are in debt! There are a FEW pioneers in the machine buiding area who are doing things like buidling Bicycle frames out of Bamboo,
groovie progress! But this sort of thing may be too little too late.

The reason WHY we had the attack of 9/11/2001 was NOT because a bunch of Arabs are angry with us, or they "Hate us for our freedoms" what a crock!

No, 9/11/2001 happened so that the NEW WORLD ORDER could get their agenda crammed through CONGRESS. We now have the UNCONSTITUTIONAL "Patriot {un-natural}ACT" and also the "Military Commissions {un-natural}ACT" to name just two of the bills that have been slammed through the system under threat of branding anyone who voted against it as somehow "Pro-Terrorists"

Bush (that is "W") said "let us not tollerate any outragious conspiracy theorys" ya, like that conspiracy of 19 suicidal Arabs who hijack 4 airliners and crash 3 of them into buidings? Just examine the "official" explanation of what happened... isn't it VERY strange? even sick and twisted?
This is the BIG LIE, tyrants throughout history have used it.
When will WE THE PEOPLE rise up and say WE ARE MAD AS HELL and WE ARE NOT GOING TO TAKE IT ANYMORE!

TV is a WMD that is a Weapon of Mass Deception!
 
Let us not forget that Bush Sr. was President before Clintoon, and there are several strange bits that I'd like to point out...
For one durring the Clintoon administration (in fact on Sept 11 1994)
A light plane crashed into the White House lawn, the assumed intent of the pilot was a suicide mission to kill the President, but Clintoon was not in the White House at the time. I read the New York Times account of the incedent and first of all, the mainstream media buried the story deep inside the newspaper only giving it a VERY small space, and within the story is a line something to the effect of "some radar operator at Andrews must have been having a bad day" ... Now an aircraft on an apparent suicide mission to kill the President and this also involves an apparant failure of our Air Defense System and this is news that gets a tiny collum buried inside the NYT and most people are blissfully unaware of the gravity of this situation. oops!

I remember this event, it was all over the news... no one "hid" anything... oops!

So you now are saying the Bush I, Bush II, and Clinton all got together to plan an attack on the World Trade Center, all for the purpose of allowing us to invade Iraq... Maybe you feel asleep during this part of history class, but Bush I was already in Iraq in 1991... why spend 12 years coming up with a plan to get back to a country that you already controlled... oops!

My thought on this subject is that the NEW WORLD ORDER has been at work for a LONG time and the idea that there is somehow this contest of Democrats VS Republicans only serves as a smoke screen to blind the public to the fact that it doesn't matter if the President is a Democrat or Republican, are they Skull&Bones members? are they members of CFR?
Do they have super wealthy friends who take them golfing or sailing and are these "friends" also on the boards of directors of major corporations such as GE, Haliburton, KBR, GM, Lockheed martin, Boeing ... etc...
Remember Ronie Raygun used to say "Progress is our most important product" advertising for GE and then he became Gov. of California and then President, and GE is a major player in the DEFENSE INDUSTRY ( Military Industrial Complex) . I get the impression that the people involved in this sort of thing are into VERY long range planning, if the real truth where to come out, it would not suprize me at all to learn that 9/11/2001 had been a decade or more in the planning. The NEW WORLD ORDER are also huge oportunists, and will take advantage of whatever is handy to further their cause.
A large part of the whole program is the destruction of hard currency,
(but thats a tangent an I wanted to keep this discussion as much as possible focused on 9/11/2001)

I see you are now going back to CFR members because no one running is a Skull and Bones member...

You are now claiming 9/11 was a decade in the works just to get back into Iraq, again ignoring the fact that in 1991 we already controlled Iraq...

Bottom line here is that not just AMERICA but the world is in deep doo-doo!
Anyplace that uses industrial energy, even the "third world" with their large masses of people riding bicycles, the fact that the have bicycles means that they are using up industrial energy faster than their tiny ecomomy can pay for it, that is they are in debt! There are a FEW pioneers in the machine buiding area who are doing things like buidling Bicycle frames out of Bamboo,
groovie progress! But this sort of thing may be too little too late.

The reason WHY we had the attack of 9/11/2001 was NOT because a buch of Arabs are angry with us, or they "Hate us for our freedoms" what a crock!

It was actually because we put soldiers in the Holy Land and "desecrated the Holy sites.."

No, 9/11/2001 happened so that the NEW WORLD ORDER could get their agenda crammed through CONGRESS. We now have the UNCONSTITUTIONAL "Patriot {un-natural}ACT" and also the "Military Commissions {un-natural}ACT" to name just two of the bills that have been slammed through the system under threat of branding anyone who voted against it as somehow "Pro-Terrorists"

Just to point out, all the laws in the Patriot Act were already in place before 9/11. So why carry out 9/11 to get no new laws?

Bush (that is "W") said "let us not tollerate any outragious conspiracy theorys" ya, like that conspiracy of 19 suicidal Arabs who hijack 4 airliners and crash 3 of them into buidings? Just examine the "official" explanation of what happened... isn't it VERY strange? even sick and twisted?
This is the BIG LIE, tyrants throughout history have used it.
When will WE THE PEOPLE rise up and say WE ARE MAD AS HELL and WE ARE NOT GOING TO TAKE IT ANYMORE!

TV is a WMD that is a Weapon of Mass Deception!

Yours posts are a WMS - Weapons of Mass Stupidity.

You claim that the ENTIRE US government spent a decade plotting the worst terror attack on US soil ever (and for 10 years no one found out...) all so we could go back into Iraq (after we were already there) and pass laws that already existed...
 
Excellent post Rob.. Just wanted to add one thing:

The "New World Order" is a push toward bringing America into the system of International Socialism, its not about America trying to force the rest of the world into accepting our form of Government: Capitalist Democracy with a Republics form of Representation.
 
I don't think it is a question of who was responsible for 9/11.

More to the point, why has this Admin been complicit in so much unnecessary secrecy, since 9/11, which has enabled the more ridiculous conspiracy theories to be spawned and thrive.

Personally I have grave doubts that this US Admin has been open and entirely truthful regarding some elements re: 9/11, not because I am a conspiracy theorist, but due to several aspects that have never been explained in a satisfactory manner.

Any thinking person must surely feel similar doubts about some aspects.

Perhaps fresh minds can help here.

The main problem I had at the time, still have and which has never been answered by anyone at all in a reasonable and rational manner to my knowledge is the following;

The BBC and other sources have stated that of the men who were identified as the perps of the 9/11 hijackings, several have since been proven to be alive and kicking.

When the researcher for the Popular Mechanics debunking article and a while afterwards the book which was published was asked to explain this, he replied that it was actually untrue. That in fact the BBC made a 'mistake'.

When the researcher was asked how he knew this to be the case and this is on record, he replied that 'they' (not sure who the they, is that he actually refers to) found DNA that proved the terrorists were who the government and intelligence sources named, no doubt about it.

What I am still waiting to hear, is with what exactly did 'they' compare the DNA at the scene?

If the DNA of each hijacker was identified, from whom and where did 'they' source the control DNA with which to compare?

This is a crucial question that after 7 years is even more worthy of a reasonable explanation in my personal opinion.
 
Perhaps fresh minds can help here.

The main problem I had at the time, still have and which has never been answered by anyone at all in a reasonable and rational manner to my knowledge is the following;

The BBC and other sources have stated that of the men who were identified as the perps of the 9/11 hijackings, several have since been proven to be alive and kicking.

When the researcher for the Popular Mechanics debunking article and a while afterwards the book which was published was asked to explain this, he replied that it was actually untrue. That in fact the BBC made a 'mistake'.

When the researcher was asked how he knew this to be the case and this is on record, he replied that 'they' (not sure who the they, is that he actually refers to) found DNA that proved the terrorists were who the government and intelligence sources named, no doubt about it.

What I am still waiting to hear, is with what exactly did 'they' compare the DNA at the scene?

If the DNA of each hijacker was identified, from whom and where did 'they' source the control DNA with which to compare?

This is a crucial question that after 7 years is even more worthy of a reasonable explanation in my personal opinion.
Could you provide a Link(s) so that I can watch whatever it is you have gotten this information from? :)
 
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The BBC and other sources have stated that of the men who were identified as the perps of the 9/11 hijackings, several have since been proven to be alive and kicking.

The problem comes from "Sheet Head" names, and our inability to 1) make heads or tails of them, and 2) verifying who they really are, because their record keeping and identification systems over there, well, frankly it SUCKS. There were even a couple of early mis-identifications by the FBI and CIA because of similarity in the names of some of the "Hamburg Cell", and the fact that some of them were using aliases.

Take a look at all the problems that we're still having with the "No-Fly" lists! Completely innocent people are being prohibited from flying merely because they have the same name as someone on a terrorist watch list.
 
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