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Who Is A Christian

Discussion in 'Culture & Religion' started by Old_Trapper70, Apr 17, 2017.

  1. grumpy

    grumpy Active Member

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    He won this election by talking to and winning over the hearts of people very different from himself, Did you hear his Easter speech?
    And I'm still asking.. How do you know? Most politicians want to please the people too get what they want done..Our last President was also a please the people kind of guy, (some of the people) Trump is not the devel..
     
  2. The Scotsman

    The Scotsman Well-Known Member

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    Interesting question and one which is difficult to answer in short order. Bearing in mind my perspective - I look from the outside in and am not immersed in the multi-facetted American culture or its national psyche. So for what its worth, I look at Trump as an averagely successful rent collector who has been averagely successful at other attempts within the entertainment sector (and not so successful in other avenues of business) but essentially, he’s just an average rent collector. The transformation from average rent collector to the President of the United States is by any stretch of the imagination a huge leap especially when you consider the fragile state of the world now.

    To call him weird is perhaps an understatement, rather, I find him dangerous. The boardroom is different from the Oval Office the “see it – want it” kind of mentality within which he has been nurtured into does not work well in public service and international relations which functions with a completely different dynamic. The boardroom has provided him with an outlet for his colossal overconfidence and staggering arrogance but the Oval Office has exposed his total ignorance for his new role and the environment which goes with it. Everyone who has been in employment knows a “Trump” or has worked for a “Trump” indeed the business world is full of “Trumps”, they are the ones making impossible demands at 5pm on a Friday and making people work weekends without overtime and taking the credit for it on Monday or trying to impress colleagues at a business lunch by sending an expensive wine back at restaurants or being rude and aggressive to their employees – you know the type of arrogant demi-gods I mean.

    These types of people are perhaps tolerable within the world they operate as people know of them and are equipped to deal with them. The world is full of arrogant, overconfident, ass slapping salesmen that have become secretaries of the local rotary club or head of the divisional sales team. What makes Trump different is the magnitude of the scam that he has perpetrated and the height to which he has risen – Mayor Quimby turned President!

    As I said in the beginning I’m outside looking in, and to answer your question no he’s not weird, he’s dangerous. And yes, he has changed from the primaries as he’s been exposed for what he is, which is an over promoted rent collector.

    And what makes this all the more scary is that he is the sane result of a totally broken insane system.
     
  3. Old_Trapper70

    Old_Trapper70 Well-Known Member

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    No, he won the election by lying to his stupid followers who lacked the integrity to check out his many false claims about others, and himself. He relied on the ignorance of people who were more concerned with their own hatred, and bigotry.

    And I am still asking what proof is there that Trump is any kind of a "christian"? Where is his empathy for the plight of the Muslim refugees fleeing the violence the US began under Bush? Where is his empathy for the American worker while he hires cheap foreign labor, and keeps his own businesses offshore? Where is his empathy for the ones who lost their homes, and their jobs, while he hoped for a housing crisis, and profited from such?

    In another forum I am debating with pro abortion advocates, and your argument in support of Trump is quite similar to theirs in support of abortion. Their argument is that since the babe in the womb only consists of one cell which begins to develop, it is not human until birth, and thus can be destroyed as it is an inconvenience to the woman.

    Your argument for Trump rests on an opinion that we need to wait to see if there is ever a change (growth) in his life to show he is a "christian", not ther immediate change the scripture says occurs as with Matthew, Paul, etc.

    Trump is not the devil, that is true. He is just a follower of the devil.

    http://www.patheos.com/blogs/teachi...-trump-immigration-and-the-politics-of-satan/

    "In the biblical book of Job, Satan is the Accuser. Satan roams throughout the world as a prosecutor looking to make accusations against people. But Satan doesn’t care if people are good or bad. As we see with Job, all Satan cares about is making accusations.

    In other words, truth doesn’t matter. All that matters is making an accusation that sticks.

    Donald Trump made an accusation against Mexican immigrants that has struck a chord with many Republican voters. And that’s the point behind the satanic principle of accusation. As René Girard claims in his book, I See Satan Fall Like Lightning, “Satan seeks to have others imitate him.” Our imitation of Satan primarily comes in the form of accusations against our fellow human beings. That accusation is usually based on fear, a contagious emotion that is easily manipulated by the satanic principle of accusation.

    But the fear is baseless because it isn’t grounded in truth. That’s especially true in the case of immigration. Study after study shows that immigrants, whether legal or illegal, are less likely to be involved in violent crimes than the rest of the population.

    In her study, Bianca Bersani, professor of Sociology at the University of Massachusetts, states, “Foreign born individuals exhibit remarkably low levels of involvement in crime across their life course.”

    Jorg Spenkuch of Northwestern University finds that, “There is essentially no correlation between immigrants and violence crime.”
     
  4. The Scotsman

    The Scotsman Well-Known Member

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    Who cares???
    Would it make Whitehouse Policy towards NATO any different if he quoted the 10 commandments?
    Would it cool the planet by 2.3 Degrees if he said the Lord's Prayer before breakfast?
    Would the Syrian refugees be better fed if he quoted a bit of the Bible at bed time?
    Would it improve relations with North Korea if he wore a dog collar?
    Does being a fundie mean you only vote for fundies?
     
  5. Openmind

    Openmind Well-Known Member

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    Amazing how you can switch on a quarter!
    Why do you think 75% of evangelicals voted for Trump? BECAUSE THEY THOUGHT HE WAS A CHRISTIAN!

    The "sanctity of life" doesn't matter for Trump. . .he is willing to drop bombs and missiles on just anyone. . .if it serves his own purpose! He is willing to cut funding for birth control while it has been PROVEN that it is the ONLY way to prevent and/or lower the rate of abortions. He is willing to cut healthcare for children, he is pro the death penalty, he is pro-war. . .where do you see him "respect life?" He doesn't even respect his WIVES (none of the 3 of them), women, or his own younger son!

    And, how do you explain, if "being a Christian is not essential to be a good President" that so many people bought the ridiculous (and FALSE) propaganda about President Obama being a Muslim. . .and HOLDING IT AGAINST HIM?

    Think of this. . .and then ask yourself if you are merely being ignorant or purposefully ignoring the reality, or being simply hypocritical.
     
  6. Openmind

    Openmind Well-Known Member

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    Trump was NEVER a conservative. . .except when it fitted his own purpose! He has been a fake all his life, and he just switched to PRETENDING to be a "conservative" and a pro-life to get the votes and the support of Evangelicals. . .not the "religion," but the BIG BUSINESS evangelical.

    I strongly believe that, the "religious evangelical" crowds are merely the Talibans of Christianity, but that most "evangelical religious leaders" are NOTHING MORE THAN BIG BUSINESS PEOPLE who don't give a damn about Christianity, but only about their mega mansions and their tax free status!

    SICK
     
  7. Openmind

    Openmind Well-Known Member

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    He "won" this election by FOOLING gullible people who are today very disappointed and know they have been fooled! He has lied and used good, honest, but not very smart people to get elected, and he was helped in doing that by big business!

    You are seriously insulting President Obama by comparing him to the clown in Mar-a-Lago! President Trump was GENUINE in pleasing the crowds (and yet, he was hated by some!) Trump doesn't have a genuine bone in his body!
    In fact, you ONLY HAVE to look at the reaction of children with both Trump and President Obama to know the truth. A lot of adults can be fooled (especially when they WANT to believe) by a "used car sales man," but children, as do dogs, have an innate gift for feeling truth, and genuine kindness in people.

    Do I need to post pictures to make this point?
     
  8. Old_Trapper70

    Old_Trapper70 Well-Known Member

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    First off, I am not a "fundie" although I would like to know what your definition of such is.

    As to Trump, I seriously doubt anything would change his mind unless he can profit from it. So far he has been wrong about most everything reflecting his inability to think critically.

    Of course, IMO, the country would be far better served if he was a "christian", even minimally. The Founding Fathers believed in the virtue, and morality, of the Bible, and believed that without the morals of Christianity the country could not survive. IMO, events are proving them right.
     
  9. Old_Trapper70

    Old_Trapper70 Well-Known Member

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    Funny how both Trump, and Pence, were Democrats until they decided to become politicians.
     
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  10. Openmind

    Openmind Well-Known Member

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    You're correct, NO ONE SHOULD CARE!
    However it seems that the GOP and especially the Evangelicals Talibans cared A LOT when President Obama was President, even going as far as calling him Muslim!

    In some way though, I disagree about the rest of your post, because, IF a President was REALLY a Christian, a TRUE Christian, a true pro-life, his policies may be affected by his REAL Christian beliefs and, as Pope Francis advocates, Syrian refugees would be more welcomed (instead of being banned) in the US, and respect for God's creation (therefore for the planet and all its habitants) would also influence his policies on the environment, on the use of renewable resources, and on distribution on wealth.

    But, I personally do not believe that being a GOOD person and a great leader is limited to being religious. . .and certainly not to being of one specific religion, and even less about being one specific "flavour" within that religion.

    I believe that being an EVANGELICAL Christian would deter one from being open, tolerant, and accepting. . .In fact, I believe that most Evangelical Christian leaders totally represent the description of the Pharisiens that made Jesus so angry!
     
  11. The Scotsman

    The Scotsman Well-Known Member

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    ...well....someone who displays an overwhelming amount of enthusiasm for Jesus and can carpet bomb conversations with an inordinate amount of half-understood bibical passages at the drop of a hat....??

    But that fella Jesus was not a Christian he was a full blown Jew? So if ol' יְהוֹשֻׁעַ‎ came back again and said (translated from rustic Aramaic) "behold I am יְהוֹשֻׁעַ‎ and cometh amongest thee for I runeth for President of thy bountiful land" all the fundies would say "oi whoa there mate! We ain't voting for you as you ain't a good Christian!" I would imaging that would kinda piss off old יְהוֹשֻׁעַ‎ a little bit!

    I just don't understand this morbid preoccupation with your politicians having to go out of their way to prove that they're christian! If he just turned around and said "look chaps sorry to be a bit of a nuisance and all that jazz - totally behind your hallow'ed fella, top notch chap and jolly good luck to you all in the afterlife, however, slight glitch with the here and now though - well look here chaps you see its about the policies not the prophecies!"
     
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  12. Old_Trapper70

    Old_Trapper70 Well-Known Member

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    Well, that would be Grumpy then since each time I have used scripture it has been with the knowledge, and understanding, of the meaning of that scripture.

    Can you name the founder of any religion that was such when he founded that religion, or could it be that the followers of the teachings of a certain belief are named after that founder? Mohamed=Mohamedism; Confucius=Confucianism; etc.

    Wrong again. I would never vote for Christ as a President since I would not want a Theocracy,. nor would Christ. Again you do not understand the teachings of Christ. His was not to have a Theocracy, nor does He teach such. There are some Dominionists, or Christian Reconstructionists, that support the idea of a theocracy, and the scripture speaks of the "Kingdom of God" being "at hand", however, this was not a teaching of Christ Himself as to being His purpose.

    Trouble here is that Trump claimed to be a Christian, and the Evangelical community blindly believed him, basically out of a hatred for Clinton, and never once questioned as to whether he told the truth, or not. He made "promises" he cannot, nor will he, keep. The next problem here is that there were candidates that actually live a Christian life yet they were ignored by the Christian community. So, we now have a President that has violated virtually every basic tenet of Christianity, and still there are those who wait for any form of proof that he is a Christian. If one claims to be of a certain belief I would expect some proof that such is true.

    Maybe you accept liars, cowards, thieves, and the immoral, as qualified leaders, I don't. My experience has been that such will not install policies that benefit the country, only themselves.
     
  13. The Scotsman

    The Scotsman Well-Known Member

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    Neither did that Jesus fella? Didn't he just have a bit of an issue with that lad Caiaphas, Jesus seemed pretty cool about rendering to god and rendering to Augustus so I guess he understood the difference.
    And he ain't a US citizen and coming from Syria would be on the travel ban list!

    Boy have you got that right!!

    .... well yes of course its the nature of the game isn't it! Show me a politician that hasn't told a whopper or had a blow job or run a mile at the sight of the taxman or stiffed an opponent.
    Politicans tell lies... big whoop. Everyone knows that.
     
  14. Old_Trapper70

    Old_Trapper70 Well-Known Member

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    There is a difference between telling the occasional lie, and lying everytime you open your mouth simply for your own grandiose.
     
  15. The Scotsman

    The Scotsman Well-Known Member

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    Careful mate that puts you in the same camp as your antagonist... and...that's an extremely un-christian point of view if you don't mind me saying so!
    Is there a place in the afterlife for making false accusations against someone? Isn't the Bible all about meekness and allowing God to pass judgement upon those that transgress?

    You said I don't understand the teachings of Christ, however, I always assumed that the narrative of Christianity was to offer guidance to those that have lost the path to God and that ultimately it was God that judged the soles of man.... or something like that?

    Your narrative in a lot of your coversation is one of distrust and indeed vitriol towards your fellow men. Whatever happened to the ethos of forgivness and compassion? You obviously feel hurt and aggrived and you seem to feel the need to launch a counter offensive against those that you feel are tresspassing against you - we live in a world of men who do us much harm and give us cause for impatience, anger, revenge, etc., but surely as a Christian your reaction should not be to strike out against them. Who are you to question the Godliness of someone or despise his words or actions, has not God reserved this prerogative for himself?

    But then again as you say I don't know the teaching of Christ although I wonder based on your perspective whether you need to do some sole searching?
     
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