The monstrous Christian / Islamic God

You probably hear 10 to 1 that "Jesus Loves You" over "You are going to hell."

You just tune that part out.

I could be wrong. I often am wrong.

But I don't go around and say "Since I don't see any justification for X, X must be wrong." That is just not logical.

maybe you just don't hear the insults to non Christian's, because you tune them out...or as in some cases I have had, they did not even realize what they just said was insulting to non Christians...

Allah ain't God

Sammy,
I feel your rage. One of the things most of us come to realize, at some point in life, is that strong emotions cloud reasoning.

Your understanding of the Christian/Jewish God is shallow and emotional and reflects very little actual knowledge on your part.

First of all, Allah ain't God. Allah is the moon God of Mohammed's tribe. Regardless of what Muslims tell you, Allah is not the same personality as the Christian/Jewish God. As a matter of fact, Allah is mythology. Over the years, Islamic mullahs began to equate Mohammed's moon god with the Christian/Jewish God. This gave them a measure of respectability because they could point to the Bible as an ancient source for their beliefs. Today, everyone one that bows to Mecca has forgotten or never been told the true nature of Allah, and that nature is mythology.

Don't equate what the Muslims believe with what Christians and Jews know to be true.

I was an atheist until my mid twenties. I have been a Christian for a long time now too.

I am quite aware how being in a minority sensitizes one.

I don't call it being sensitive when your told your going to burn in hell...I don't really care, because I don't believe in hell so its not a big threat to me...but does make me question why they acted like they wanted to be my friend, yet said stuff like that ( while not aimed at me maybe) as if they did not know they are saying that's how low of a view they had of me...others just say they don't agree and hope I find Jesus or what have you and are done, and we can be cool...I don't try to tell them there god is fake and they are a idiot for believing it.

I was about to say what you just said: if one does not believe in hell then there is no harm done.

When a Christian tells you that you are going to hell they (hopefully) do not mean it in the way that it is often used which means "I want you to go to hell." but more in the way your doctor means it when he says "you have a growth on your liver."

One difference that I can see is that the doctor has your permission to be involved in your business. I think people should either address discussions of hell to generic discussions about hell and all unbelievers or if talking to a specific person then to have some sort of permission. Getting back to the doctor analogy if a doctor went on TV talking about the signs of liver growths he would certainly be heard by someone who had a sign of liver growths but he would not be imposing himself into their life. And he would also be acting kindly if his patient who asked for help was informed about liver growths. What the doctor should not do is walk up to a stranger on the subway and tell them that he can see that they have a liver growth. Suppose he sat next to that person and struck up a conversation. Suppose he steered that conversation toward a discussion of liver growths? Eventually he might get permission to talk about it. From what you have described your "friends" have taken that approach. You have provided the proof that they are attempting to be sensitive to your right to be left alone.

(As a side note I would point out that anyone on a political forum who engages in a religious discussion has given permission to hear any point of view.)

Re: Allah ain't God

You write so sure of yourself!
I read somewhere that "Al-Elah" was the name of the moon God; and I'm still not sure of that. But I know that "Elah" in arabic means any kind of God. "Al" which comes before any names is the same as "The" in English. Well the moon God was the father and the main God worshipped and so it was called "Al-Elah" which means "The God" and by that they meant this moon God which they belived had three daughters that their idols had been put inside "ka'ba". So the people of Quraish (The tribe of Muhammad) and other tribes had become to worship Idols again (like at the time of Abraham) until prophet Muhammad(pbuh) invited them to islam and to worship The true one God :Allah which means "The God". The unity of God is a key belief in islam so muslims believe that there is only one true God, So his name had to be free of any special adjectives or anything... it had to be just "The God". So it became Allah. But this God is completely different from that moon God!

The story of Ka'ba goes back to Abraham. Do you think Abraham is a myth? because muslims now believe Allah is abraham's God who was a monotheic and broke the idols that were worshipped in place of the true God. Abraham is called Khalil-Ullah by muslims, That means: The friend of Allah.
Prophet Muhammad himself worshipped the God of Abraham (his ancestor), who was the God of Moses and Jesus. We call the religions of these three prophets the monotheistic religions, or "Abrahamic religions". Abraham and his son Ismaeal built the Ka'ba at mecca, and there Abraham asked God that to accept them as "muslims" and asked that there be muslims from their generation, and God accepted that. (The literal meaning of Muslim is a person who "submits" to the will of God).This story is written in quran. Muslims reference for believing this God to be the same as jews' and christians' is the Quran, not the word of islamic mullahs!

zakiyeh

At last. A Muslim who at least sounds like he knows what he (or she) is talking about.

I am curious about how Muslims interpret Obadiah 1:21. I have read every translation I know and they all say the same thing to me: That the house of Esau is doomed.

What say you?

And another intersting subject that relates more to the subject of the thread:
When prophet Muhammad was asked by his tribe about his God, He said my God is Ar-Rahman"; meaning "most mercifull" (so if Muslims God happens to be different then he is the kind one!)
There are 99 names of God enumerated in islam, each representing certain attributes or descriptions of God; in which God is seen as being the source and maximum extent of each name's meaning. The names Ar-Rahman and Ar-Raheem are the most frequently mentioned in the Qur'an, both meaning the "Most Merciful", but with different emphasis' of meaning, either of which are also often translated as the "Most Compassionate" or the "Most Beneficent".

The other 99 names do indeed include names like al-jabbar: The compeller or al-ghahhar: The subduer, which represent the God's power and his mightiness and his revengefulness. But they're not chosen as the main names or being repeated as so many times...
Just another evidence that God is more kind than harsh!

I have yes, on here...however when people have said things to me at my place of work ( customers) I am not able to say anything back...nor have I given them reason to talk to me about it...let alone basically say I am a immoral person or something to that effect...I just had to sit and take it basically because for some reason telling a ignorant person that they are a idiot and I think there Religion is a Sham...at work, does not go over well.

Re: zakiyeh

I don't know very much about this. And actually I havn't read any direct islamic interpretation of it. It would be quite easy to accept such an interpretation if we are talkig about what had happenned in the past; because things and people change through history. So I have a question here:
Is it referred to in describing and foreseeing the israel-palestine problems today or is it just a historical matter?
I knew that there are religeous texts that jews refer to as a proof for their right in the land. But there are stories of this bani-israel men (the sons of israel, which is the other name of yaqub") in Quran and how they have behaved through history that stops me from any quick interpretation.

zaki

"Muhammad was raised in the religion of the Moon-god Allah. But he went one step further than his fellow pagan Arabs. While they believed that Allah, i.e. the Moon-god, was the greatest of all gods and the supreme deity in a pantheon of deities, Muhammad decided that Allah was not only the greatest god but the only god.

In effect he said, "Look, you already believe that the Moon-god Allah is the greatest of all gods. All I want you to do is to accept that the idea that he is the only god. I am not taking away the Allah you already worship. I am only taking away his wife and his daughters and all the other gods." This is seen from the fact that the first point of the Muslim creed is not, "Allah is great" but "Allah is the greatest," i.e., he is the greatest among the gods. Why would Muhammad say that Allah is the "greatest" except in a polytheistic context? The Arabic word is used to contrast the greater from the lesser. That this is true is seen from the fact that the pagan Arabs never accused Muhammad of preaching a different Allah than the one they already worshipped. This "Allah" was the Moon-god according to the archeological evidence. Muhammad thus attempted to have it both ways. To the pagans, he said that he still believed in the Moon-god Allah. To the Jews and the Christians, he said that Allah was their God too. But both the Jews and the Christians knew better and that is why they rejected his god Allah as a false god."

http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/moongod.htm

There are probably a hundred explanations of Allah as a pagan moon god and why he is NOT the god of Abraham and Jesus. And every one I have read says almost exactly what this explanation says.

Like I said: Allah ain't God.

And if you believe Allah is the God of Abraham and Jesus, you have been duped. Allah is the pagan moon god of Muhammed's tribe. When Muhammed invented Islam, he just sold a bill of goods that you should worship Allah only and not all his relatives. Allah is a pagan at his origin and is still a pagan.

After the Big M died, his mullahs had a hard sell with Islam. They needed a serious dose of believability. So they invented the Allah is God myth to gain respectability by now being able to use the Bible as a source.

Re: zaki

What do you say then about the Quran? is that invented by the Mullah's too do you think? I told you it is written in Quran that Allah is the God of Moses and Jesus. Quran was send and announced by and at the time of prophet Muhammad himself. Can he have said two different words at the time?

Re: zaki

sounds like only debate you have is, the name, not the fact that the koran spells out that Allah is the same god, as Jesus and Moses, and Abraham.

God is very very merciful. Is the expression of God's mercy a result of what we do or a result of who He is?

For those of us who find that statement ambiguous, can you please give two (one for each "very"), modern history examples of God's mercy?

Waited for a response...there was none. O.K., just one example then?

Good question!
It is both!
well you see I told you about the two names "Ar-Rahman" and "Ar-Rahim". The first one relates to God's general mercy towards all mankind and every creature; that is by giving them the gift of existence; with all the opportunities of life. These include the basic endowments such as the food you eat, the water you drink, the soothe and calm you get in your shared (marital) life, etc and also the gift of a clear soul, a mind which can realise good from evil, a kind heart...(these can be ruined by yourself though!) and finally showing you the right path of life by sending guidance through his prophets;
Here if you become a believer and act according to God's words, then starts the other flow of his mecy, and that is an in-religion guide which has it's own rules for forgiving sins, enlightening souls, showing the way to emancipation(more step by step kind of guidance), etc.

Actually both are somehow the result of who he is: he has conditionned some of his mercy on account of who we are and what we do. There is a complicated net of rules for what he gives us and what he withholds. But what is important is that the basis of such a network is justice and something more... compassion and mercy.
If there is no darkness nobody will understand and enjoy light... this is the logic!

1-Just the fact that you are breathing now is a sign of God's mercy!
However it seems that you want a non-individual example, and what more, a historic one...; this makes it somehow difficult; and that's because of all the conflicts between us on earth; and because of the network of rules I just talked about in answer to Dr.Who ( you see mankind today is more an un-believer and does more evil than good so it deserves less mercy!)
but here's an example anyway!:
2- I see the victory of the empty-handed iranians in their revolution at 1979 over the american-supported regime of Shah, a result of God's mercy and his thanksgiving for all the hardship the iranian people went through for their beliefs. Actually it did seem so unbelievable to the world that it justifies the idea of the God's hand at work!

note 1: example num-1 is timeless. mankind has always received God's compassion through his maintaining what he needs for a living; i.e food, oxigen, water,...
note 2:example num-2 sound more like the second kind of mercy I talked about in my last post. I'm sure there are a lot more convincing examples than this for most people in this site (which are american), but I just preferred to stick to this one! Now you get the pattern you can replace it with your version!