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Is a Human Zygote an Organism?

Discussion in 'House of Debates' started by fedor50, Feb 10, 2015.

  1. fedor50

    fedor50 Member

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    Pale Rider, you have yet to explain what SPECIFIC qualities makes a zygote a HUMAN BEING?

    Just saying that science says that human zygotes are human beings does not cut it. I want to learn the rationale and reasoning for WHY they say that.

    Suppose a person from another planet walks up to you Pale Rider and asks you WHY a human zygote should be classified as a human being, what exactly are you going to say?
     
  2. fedor50

    fedor50 Member

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    A zygote is alive and human but it is not an organism because it cannot survive independently, it is a parasite.

    Parasite Definition | Definition of Parasite at Dictionary.com

    Main Entry: par·a·site
    Pronunciation: 'par-&-"sIt
    Function: noun
    : an organism living in, with, or on another organism in parasitism
    Merriam-Webster's Medical Dictionary, © 2002 Merriam-Webster, Inc.

    parasite par·a·site (pār'ə-sīt') n.
    1. An organism that grows, feeds, and is sheltered on or in a different organism while contributing nothing to the survival of its host.
    2. In conjoined twins, the usually incomplete twin that derives its support from the more nearly normal fetus.


    The American Heritage® Stedman's Medical Dictionary

    Have much more proof do you require or need me to continue posting?
     
  3. palerider

    palerider Well-Known Member

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    What specific qualities make you a human being? Be sure to consider all possible mental and physical retardations that may befall a human being before you answer lest I have to remind you that people who do not, or do possess the qualities you name are also human beings.

    I have already proven my position and the fact that you chose to ignore, or conveniently forget the thrashing you have already taken in this discussion does not alter that fact,

    I suppose that a being advanced enough to get here from another star would not ask such an idiotic question....I would guess that such an individual would recognize that a zygote produced by two human beings could be nothing else....and again fedor50...your obsession with zygotes is a pointless exercise as zygotes are not the ones being aborted...even by medications such as plan b.....we are well developed past our zygote stage before we are in danger of being killed by our mothers.
     
  4. palerider

    palerider Well-Known Member

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    You can not survive independently either....you live daily on the lives of both plants and animals....you are not self sustaining by any stretch of the imagination...we are all parasites...all life is parasitic to some degree.

    And your idiotic claim makes a parasite and in your opinion a non human out of all dependent conjoined twins? You just don't seem to possess the intellectual wattage required to explore your ideas beyond the shiny surface to see how deeply flawed they are just below that surface.... Here, let me help you understand why an unborn is not a parasite, and perhaps at long last help you to come to understand that words have meanings.

    First and foremost...biologically speaking a parasite is an organism of one species deriving its nourishment from a host of another species....
    Cheng, T.C., General Parasitology, p. 7, 1973.

    There is a profound difference between an obligatory dependent relationship and a parasitic relationship....ask any pair of conjoined twins.

    Second a parasite is an invading organism...come to parasitize the host from the outside...that hardly describes the development of unborns.

    Third, a parasite makes direct contact with the host's tissues...either by mouth parts, hooks or suckers...

    Fourth, your body usually attempts to isolate itself from a parasite by encapsulating the parasite with connective tissue.

    Fifth....when a parasite invades your body, your body responds by sending antibodies which attempt to kill the parasite...

    Sixth...a parasite is usually detrimental to the reproductive capacity of the host...while an embryo is the reproductive capacity of the mother incarnate.

    Seventh...a parasite is an organism which once entrenched within the host usually stays there for the remainder of its life cycle...or as long as the host survives.


    Your arguments are, as always, the same old melodramatic, misinformative, disingenuous drivel that people who don't want to admit their sociopathic position to themselves have been spouting for decades now while the greatest holocaust in human history goes on. Face it, there is no rational, scientifically valid argument in support of your position...the best you can do is bullshit like your "parasite" argument....my bet is that you got that from some pro choice site and never bothered to even try to find out what constitutes and doesn't constitute a parasite....you thought that you had found a shiny new argument and just ran with it, and now that it has been demonstrated to be nothing but misinformation, will you discard it?...of course not...you will save it and attempt to fool someone else with it....which will make you even more guilty of being a liar than you already are.
     
  5. Jason76

    Jason76 Active Member

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    Of course it is a human being from conception, and it's easier to see why that's true later, as it gains humanoid features. However, aside from that statement, you can say abortion is often commited because the parents are lazy and careless. Now the unborn has to pay with his/her life. Is that fair?
     
  6. palerider

    palerider Well-Known Member

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    What else could it possibly be...and the whole abortion debate is about lazy irresponsible people wanting to do what they want to do without consequence to themselves, even if it means killing another human being to have what they want.
     
    Jason76 likes this.
  7. fedor50

    fedor50 Member

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    I don't know what point you think you are making, but I already posted a definition of 'parasite' copied from two medical dictionaries.

    Here are some MORE links which irrefutably proves my point AND proves you wrong:

    parasite definition - Dictionary - MSN Encarta

    parasite - Definition from the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary

    parasite - Wiktionary

    Wordsmyth

    Definitions of Parasite - OneLook Dictionary Search (This one is iffy.)

    RhymeZone: parasite

    Definition of parasite

    parasite - definition of parasite - synonyms, pronunciation, spelling from Free Dictionary

    parasite - definition of parasite by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.

    Dorlands Medical Dictionary:parasite

    parasite - definition of parasite in the Medical dictionary - by the Free Online Medical Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.

    Parasite - definition from Biology-Online.org


    First of all, science can define quantifiable things like the speed of light and the elements of the periodic table. But science has a lot of trouble defining broader concepts like planets, races, life, and parasites. It is not a scientific term, and I reject that your definition is any more relevant than the slightly broader medical definition that I found. In fact, if you go back to the origin of the word I think you'll find it began with the social context, meaning someone who lives off another economically.
     
  8. fedor50

    fedor50 Member

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    A human is human life, but not all human life is a human. Body parts are human life. Sperm cells are human life. Zygotes are human life. What criteria makes only one of these things "a human being unto itself"?

    You have yet to tell me what makes a zygote human cell a human being compared to other cells. And before you say it...

    Telling me that science says a zygote is a human being does not tell me WHY that is so?

    So I am asking you, what makes a zygote a human being? Is it because it has 46 chromosomes? Is it because it has unique DNA that is separate from the father or mother?

    I am asking YOU Pale Rider personally, what is it that makes a human zygote a human being and not just simply a human cell.
     
  9. nytegeek

    nytegeek Member

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    It's not a parasite. It is created from the person's own body and calling it a parasite is ridiculous hair splitting that doesn't further the argument in either direction.
     
  10. fedor50

    fedor50 Member

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    Do you have a word for a member of the same species that acts as a parasite? Because I would be happy to use the proper word. If you don't, I will continue to say parasite, because it fits some but not all of the definitions including the two MEDICAL dictionaries that I quoted earlier. Meanwhile, it doesn't affect the point that a zygote cannot survive on its own and therefore cannot be called an individual.
     
  11. Jason76

    Jason76 Active Member

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    Being a parasite isn't evil. It's natural. Nature is filled with parasites. It's only gotten a negative vibe now cause right wing politicians are exaggerating the fact some work and others don't.
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2016
  12. dogtowner

    dogtowner Moderator Staff Member

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    Parasites invade the host. Babies do not seek into the womb.
     
  13. palerider

    palerider Well-Known Member

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    And I posted the definition of a what a parasite is from one of the most respected scientific texts on the topic of parasitology....so we have one line from a couple of dictionaries vs an entire scientific text entirely on the topic of parasitology by one of the most respected names in the field...you lose....again.

    Of course you do...you reject anything that might require that you actually look at your sociopathic position...your rejection means nothing however, my source is impeccable...while the best you can do is grab some quick and shallow dictionary definitions...it is the depth of my argument, and the shallowness of the pro choice argument that leaves me winning every time...I have actually researched the topic while you have done nothing more than flit about looking for tidbits that you believe support your position without ever having actually researched them.

    And again, if you go back to the actual etymology of the word, you find that no rational person could apply the origin of the word to pregnancy...but then you aren't really rational are you...you hold a sociopathic position and will say whatever is necessary to support it.
     
  14. palerider

    palerider Well-Known Member

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    A zygote is a human being at his or her most immature state...we continue to develop for a very long time after we are born and we never magically change from one species to another....you can trace the line of your life straight back to the few hours when you, yourself were a zygote.

    '

    What else could it possibly be? It is the what we all were at our most immature state. Your sociopathy apparently has destroyed your critical thinking skills.

    What makes you a human being? Give me actual scientific thinking as opposed to philosophy...and you will find that whatever reason you can give for yourself...reasons that may be applied to anyone regardless of disability, or affliction, can be as well applied to unborns at any stage of development.

    It is a human being at his or her (it already has a sex) most immature and will continue to develop...a human cell is a human cell which is all it will ever be. You don't seem to be able to grasp the most basic tenet of human development...your sociopathy has crippled your critical thinking skills.
     
  15. palerider

    palerider Well-Known Member

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    Such is the nature of the pro choice argument...3 miles wide....a few nanometers deep...and the truly sad part is that they believe that they are putting forward valid arguments. Defending the indefensible is always a losing proposition.
     
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