The Scotsman
Well-Known Member
I wonder if the GOP could have landslided it with DT if he just delivered the same message but from a more nuanced perspective
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Apocalypse now?' What Europe's media thought of the Trump speech
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Openmind
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No. . .America was more successful than Europe. . .because Europe went through a major war ON ITS TERRITORIES! But today, the USA is being destroyed because all that made America great (it's land, it's diversity, its "joie de vivre," its will to save nature and environment, etc . .) is being attacked.
Even American military is just a way to make money for big industries. . .Defense is important, but more money shouldn't be attributed to "defend" a land that hasn't experienced a war on its own territory (mostly due to it's geographical position) then to care for the population. And, yes, the US is carrying a bigger part of the NATO expense as it should. . .although this trend has began to revert over the last TWO YEARS, not the last 4 weeks! But the huge military complex that tax payers pay for has been used more often to ATTACK other countries than to defend them! And, let's face it, we haven't won a war since 1945. . .and that was with ALLIES!
Regarding your comment on "Bernie's number would never work here. . .we are 350 millions strong", have you ever heard about "economy of scale?" (by the way, to answer your remarks about my knowledge of economics. . .I do have a degree in Economics from an US university). The fact that there are more people to cover in healthcare (and the fact that the US population is younger than the European population) is AN ADVANTAGE, not a detriment to universal healthcare. Why do you think we pay less for medicare coverage than we pay for private insurance healthcare? Because it is more efficient ALTHOUGH IT CATERS TO THE MOST NEEDY in healthcare. . .the elderly and (in case of medicaid) the younger population of disabled people.
How do you explain that medicare covers 80% of the cost of healthcare for the MOST EXPENSIVE population (the elderly), at a lower cost than private healthcare covers the remaining 20% of the cost of healthcare for the SAME POPULATION?
How do you explain that we pay 2 to 3 times MORE for healthcare in the US than any other place in Europe. Universal healthcare and lower cost for GOOD education are NOT FICTION, but reality for Europe, and Australia. Even Cuba does a better job in those two areas than the US! Do you know that Cuba offers FREE higher education to 3000 to 4000 foreign students each year? and that Cuba sends its doctors around the world to help and teach in poor countries?
One important are where America truly was greater than other countries was in the preservation of its land, its nature, its environment. And today the clown in the White House has selected the exact people who have a history of wanting to end EPA, privatise the National park system, and who prefer to focus on building a stupid (and very much incomplete, since it will only represent about ⅓ of the border) wall on the southern border, rather than rebuild failing infrastructure! Have you travelled lately around the world? Have you had a chance to experience Airports in the US and compare them to most European airports? Have you travelled by train in the US. . .probably not, as the rail system is minimal and antiquated. . .but if you have, have you compared it to the high speed trains ALL OVER Europe, China, Japan?
No. . .I have lived long enough at the 4th corners of the US and in several countries in Europe, and visited other countries in Asia to KNOW that America is no longer "exceptional" and that it is going to be worst before it gets better.
But I know I won't convince you and I hope you know you will not convince me. So we can just agree to disagree, and debate on smaller issues, where I hope we can find some agreement. Thank you for your responses.
The Scotsman
Well-Known Member
and the colossal subsidies that the european governments and EC are spending - something like EUR40billion a year? And that's forgetting the crippling pension provisions that have to be financed.
but that's the way of the world. Europe was born from the ashes of war and strife!
Openmind
Well-Known Member
Those subsidies may be colossal. . .but we still manage to have a society that is conscientious and kind and allows a safety net to every one. By the way. . .what do you think of the subsidies (and huge tax break) to huge corporations in the US? Do you believe that subsidies given to huge agricultural business (subsidies that were originally met to help SMALL FARMERS, not huge corporations who bankrupt small farmers!) are fewer in the US than they are in Europe?
And the fact that oil industry makes huge profits, but pays nothing in taxes? and the fact that Walmart receives huge amount of welfare indirectly. . .by forcing starvation wages on their workers, who then have no choice but to access food stamps, medicaid, and other subsidies. . .And are then demonise for "not working hard enough and taking advantage of the system!
What do you think those "the crippling pension provisions" do for the economy? Yes. . .they may lower the profit of super huge corporations. . .but they don't just "evaporate" in the hands of the recipients: THEY ARE WHAT MAKES THE ECONOMY WORK!
In fact, the pension given to the working class has a much greater effect on the economy that any tax break or subsidies given to the very wealthy. . .Have you ever heard of the "velocity of money?" If not, you might check it out!
The Scotsman
Well-Known Member
and just means you have to borrow more to fund them bit like Greece.
yup. The more they pay me the quicker I spend it
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From Forbes re huge oil company profits
Industry profit margins are cyclical too. But on average, between 2006 and 2010, the largest oil companies averaged a profit margin of around 6.5%.
Industry profit margins are cyclical too. But on average, between 2006 and 2010, the largest oil companies averaged a profit margin of around 6.5%.
Openmind
Well-Known Member
and just means you have to borrow more to fund them bit like Greece.
yup. The more they pay me the quicker I spend it
Greece is not typical of European economy. . .no more than the US is typical of the broader American economy.
You remark about your spending habits demonstrates that you are not in the top 1% of income. The LESS you make, the faster you spend . . because all the disposable income goes toward meeting your NEEDS, not your WANTS.
The Scotsman
Well-Known Member
Okeedokee...... If I have more I spend more if I spend more then back to your velocity thingy'm'jig
The Scotsman
Well-Known Member
they think that too! The Germans as well as they are paying for them
Again you need to do a little more research, After World War II much of Europe was destroyed. Armies from both sides had bombed roads, bridges, supplies, and communication facilities throughout Europe. Europe needed to rebuild. This was not easy however. Many governments were in debt or out of money because they had used all their resources in fighting the war. On top of this, their economies were devastated making it difficult to collect taxes in order to rebuild. Many people did not have enough food to eat let alone money to pay taxes.
Fortunately, the land of the United States had been free of war and devastation. The US economy was doing well, making the United States the richest country in the world. We wanted to help Europe and their allies recover from the War. Although the US had already been helping Europe to recover, the Marshall Plan made it official in 1948. Over the next four years the US gave $13 billion in assistance to Western European countries. The US also offered assistance to Russia and its allies, however, they turned it down.
Without us Europe would not exist or at the least would look way different, it was a good move on our part. This was second time we stopped communism from spreading. The third time was under Reagan leadership, by out spending them. In all those times it was because our finances allowed for it..
Today none of that would be possible, because our FINANCES would not allow it. So for you to say we use to be a great country but not anymore. I assume you mean financially, because the people haven't changed. Which proves my point to anyone with a little common sense.
I will get to the rest latter.
Old_Trapper70
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Sounds like America today, and still, we have "money" to give to the wealthy, we have "money" to give to corporations; we have "money" to give to the military, just not the people.
Huh? Did it not take over all of Eastern Europe under the name of the Soviet Union? Did it not extend to China, and beyond?
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Reagan stopped nothing. And he did pout us deeply in debt as Bush 43 did when he was going to "stop terrorism".
But your god Trump says he will do it.
Which proves you have no common sense. The country today is NOTHING like the country when the "Greatest generation in the history of America" lived. That was a time when people actually sacrificed for their country, and went without for the good of all. It was a time when morality still existed. It was a time when the people voted for men of character, not corrupt con artists. It was a time when parents actually raised their children. It was a time when a father was paid enough to buy a home, and still take the family on a vacation something that corporations do not offer anymore.
How old are you that you do not remember those days?
Old_Trapper70
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A profit margin of 6.5% is meaningless when you control 100% of the market. I know of contractors who make 100% profit, yet cannot feed their families.
Maybe big oil should quit whining, and use the glut of oil we have here rather then sell in on the global market, and then buy it back.
Trapper, I bow to no one in my belief in God, and my contempt for and frustration with the GOP as it currently exists. For twenty years now they have been deeply unserious and have neglected their responsibilities to a degree that approaches treason. as far as Patriotism goes I will match mine with anyones. I'm a Marine I was going to say x marine but there is no such thing,
Your not better than the people on this board, you insult everyone who disagrees with you except me, what you say is meaningless because of how you say it..Sometimes your right but not all the time not even close.
If you want to make a statement or rebuke something I've said .. do it with respect...or your nothing but a troll..
Internet troll - Wikipedia
Your not better than the people on this board, you insult everyone who disagrees with you except me, what you say is meaningless because of how you say it..Sometimes your right but not all the time not even close.
If you want to make a statement or rebuke something I've said .. do it with respect...or your nothing but a troll..
Internet troll - Wikipedia
You know very little about the oil business, first there is more competition then you can imagine.. I've been a contractor all my life, I have never made 100% on any job so if their out there they either have no work because their prices are to hi or no work at all. You do realize that the oil business pay's better then almost any other industry and takes very good care of their people..This country would be broke without them..
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Nobody controls 100% of the oil Market.
Making six and a half cents on every dollar is very tight.
If we sell our oil at a premium that's a good thing and necessary because that's how they get that thin margin up to 6.5.
I know it's fun to make oil companies out to be bad guts but making stuff up does not aid your case.
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