Anti-Theism in America

Meanaing what? That you disagree with the sources I posted. Did you read them? Do you disagree with the journalist that I posted. Did you disagree with the mathematician that I posted who agreed with the journalist. did you disagree with the philosophers I posted who both agreed with the others?

Gravity is a probablity, like everything.
so it is not guaranteed? Then why did you say "nope?"
If you want to get scientific and philosophical here is what a scientific law really states.

As a result of observation and deduction it is very probably that xyz will result next time that abc conditions occur.

But we don't like to get bogged down by this cumbersome language and so we say express the laws more succinctly.

Do you have any sources for that? Because the sources I posted all agreed that a deduction was guaranteed while you here are saying that it includes probability.

And so far they all ****ing well work really well.

So far. But that is the whole point. There is no guarantee that they are right. All we know is that for the tiny brief amount of time that we have been looking at them they have behaved the same. For eons before we started making observations they may have behaved differently. In the huge parts of space that we have not seen they may behave differently. At the fringes of the space-time continuum like near black holes they may behave differently. When God is involved such as at the moment of creation of the universe or during a miracle they may behave differently.

And yes we do have eyewitnesses who were there during said miracles and who said that the laws did not behave just as they had come to expect them to. They understood the laws of the world and fully expected Jesus to sink rather than to walk on water and they were surprised and it changed their lives so much that they went on to start the most influential religion on the face of the planet so far.
 
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You can't possibly be serious. You are trying to theorize that the DNA chain, even the smallest of which, contains more information than a New York phone book, would somehow form to make a code, a code that is used to create every aspect of a living cell... accidentally?

Consider: That average DNA strand of a living human cell is 3 meters long. Our highest tech laboratories, using chemicals that are more than 99% pure, something impossible in the natural environment, can only create a polymer strand that can only be measured in micrometers, and would be destroyed instantly if it left a controlled environment... let alone a double helix polymer, let alone a 3 meter long double helix polymer.

Yet somehow, the claim is that this 3 meter long, double helix strand of amazingly encoded information, enough to create, replicated, and run a living organism, occurred in the chaotic void of earths theorized past with no high tech equipment, no controlled environment, no pure chemicals, an no intelligence to even create the code to begin with, nor with the cell having any way of knowing how to decode the information even if it randomly got the coded DNA in some miracle.

Consider: yjod od s vpfr. That is a code. If I did not use intelligence in creating it, it would be random keys on the key board. I used one key to the right of what I wanted. I just told you how to decode my code.

y=t
j=h
o=i
And so on...

Well, here's the thing, your example is a bit silly, the analogy is quite flawed. Your example of "code" requires a two party system, an intent (to say something) and a code to encode it. Mutually exclusive here and quite unrelated to DNA. As an example I'll show you two methods of your example that show that things can in fact form by random chance. let us take 26 * 25 letters. 25 of each a-z. Now dropping these side by side randomly will assuredly after a few tries come up with a few words here and there scattered through the total of the letters. But hey now you say...not all the letters make sense, you have -dog-djdjwjwms-hello-opam-squire-ejkdksks but you do indeed have words. Anyone who has had even a moment of beyond high school biology will recognize that DNA has a bunch (read a majority) of "Trash" sequences. These do nothing, they're a mish mash of transposed, spun, moved, and unused genes. But we don't need these, this is the lsjfskdfj of the dna, the parts we us, the dog hello and squire... Organic compounds, amino acids, etc will form on their own, they're pretty simple molecules on their own and found in nature without life as a precursor. The next thing about these amino acids is they like each other, they like to touch and link up forming chains. now today you don't see this so often as bacteria gobble it up all the time, but pre life, no bacteria, no one gobbling up all the amino acids floating around in this new wet world. eventually some of these will link up forming a chain that can link up with the inverse amino acids, which then form them into a chain and now you have a new replicated chemical chain, happens again and you have an exact (replicated) copy of the original molecular chain. This isn't life of course, but continue this, become larger in the soup... over time these amino acids would during this swap replication likely make mistakes (evolution) some which work, some which just destroy the chain. This is life at its very base, chemical chains floating in a soup of its own precursors. Feeding if you will, on amino acids. We know protein is nothing more than these amino acids manufactured by a protein foundry (made of amino acids!) eventually these organisms would form functional bits and pieces due to these mistakes and this would be maintained by the fact that it increases survival, and bye bye those that don't. Protein walls form to protect them from those chemical chains from the environment and so on. Everythign else is history. It's not a code, it's just nature. It's not some intellectual hand, it's simple science. Replicant behavior in many facets of nature, ice formation, structure of crystalline materials, etc.

The idea that dna is too complex to be "Random" is hilarious to me, and should be to anyone with even an iota of scientific knowledge. Chemistry is simple, go buy a chem set and play with it... until then, hush your nonsense. good day,
 
You find it preposterous because you do not believe in the supernatural. But there is no evidence against the existence of the supernatural. While there is at least some evidence for it. Every good empiricists should only base what he believes on what can be seen. To deny what has not even had any evidence presented against is the preposterous thing.

There needs be no evidence against the supernatural for it to be. I see this over and over in this thread and it makes me want to bang my head against my desk, unfortunately the pop bottles and paper stacks get in the way of me doing that, so instead let me make something very clear. No one needs to prove anything against god, spirits, or voodoo. Supernatural things needn't be disproved. For all intents and purposes, they do not exist. By all means if you have zero evidence to show for a "theory", then no one of a scientific mind is going to put any salt in it. If I come forth and say the universe consists of a lattice of untouchable, unseeable, unprovable particles that form a chain that links the spatial area that we call "space", it is all on my shoulders to prove it. I can't, thus it is untrue for all intents. To even for a moment to assume that an unprovable by virtue could exist is preposterous. Since it is intangible and unimportant to the mechanics of the universe by its obvious non-interaction (things that interact can always be proven or at least theorized about, by either cause (the particle) or effect (the action caused by the particle). Gravity is a good example of this. We don't know what gravity is, it's not a particle, not a wave of any detectable energy, EXCEPT for its effects. However we can suggest that matter (based on its weight) creates gravity and is thus attracted to other mass. But while we cannot prove what gravity is, it is gravity, because this is what we use to describe the attraction of matter to other matter. Now God, we have no cause, no effect. Neither, not a single iota of "this is an effect of god" of course people purport such things all the time, THIS IS GODS HANDIWORK, such as the dna is too complex, thus god must exist, this is flawed argument and deserves no more discussion beyond it is flawed.

When this all boiled down and wrung out what you get is this, you believe something that there is no proof of beyond the words of a book. You have subjective proof via the minds ability to rationalize faith based assumptions. This subjective proof does in no way effect the reality of things; schizophrenics often truly believe that people are after them, paranoid delusions, but real subjectively and if you try, you'll not be able to prove to them otherwise. I'm not saying religious people are delusional in the pejorative sense, however it borders this in that people are believing something that has zero basis in reality. In the future when trying to deride this, please word your words carefully, as you risk simply repeating statements that are circular in reasoning and serve no purpose but to increase the size of this thread. Just remember, to be right, you must have proof of existence not proof of the lack thereof. There are an infinite number of possibilities in the realm of "what does not exist" a god shaped like a loaf of bread is as possible and just as unprovable as the God of Christian literature, of course this is silly, and by silly I mean just as.

Reality comes in one form, that which you can prove, things that you cannot remain just that. If someone comes forth with an assertion that X = Y. He'll have his proofs. At this point someone may come along and attempt to disprove his assertion, this sometimes gives people of the religious argument the idea that you need to disprove the existence of something for it to be untrue. This attempt to maintain the proof still falls on the shoulders of the assertion, it must stand up to the disproving facts. Religion does NOT do this, it cannot, due to its lack of empiricality.
 
There needs be no evidence against the supernatural for it to be. I see this over and over in this thread and it makes me want to bang my head against my desk, unfortunately the pop bottles and paper stacks get in the way of me doing that, so instead let me make something very clear. No one needs to prove anything against god, spirits, or voodoo. Supernatural things needn't be disproved. For all intents and purposes, they do not exist. By all means if you have zero evidence to show for a "theory", then no one of a scientific mind is going to put any salt in it.

But there is not zero evidence for the existence of a supernatural.

If I come forth and say the universe consists of a lattice of untouchable, unseeable, unprovable particles that form a chain that links the spatial area that we call "space", it is all on my shoulders to prove it. I can't, thus it is untrue for all intents. To even for a moment to assume that an unprovable by virtue could exist is preposterous.

The supernatural is by no means unprovable. It is merely not proven empirically.



Since it is intangible and unimportant to the mechanics of the universe by its obvious non-interaction (things that interact can always be proven or at least theorized about, by either cause (the particle) or effect (the action caused by the particle). Gravity is a good example of this. We don't know what gravity is, it's not a particle, not a wave of any detectable energy, EXCEPT for its effects. However we can suggest that matter (based on its weight) creates gravity and is thus attracted to other mass. But while we cannot prove what gravity is, it is gravity, because this is what we use to describe the attraction of matter to other matter. Now God, we have no cause, no effect. Neither, not a single iota of "this is an effect of god" of course people purport such things all the time, THIS IS GODS HANDIWORK, such as the dna is too complex, thus god must exist, this is flawed argument and deserves no more discussion beyond it is flawed.

There are tons of effects that may be the result of the actions of God. We do not know. For the most part I am not claiming that such and such must be a result of God but just that it is illogical to positively assert that they are not.

When this all boiled down and wrung out what you get is this, you believe something that there is no proof of beyond the words of a book. You have subjective proof via the minds ability to rationalize faith based assumptions. This subjective proof does in no way effect the reality of things; schizophrenics often truly believe that people are after them, paranoid delusions, but real subjectively and if you try, you'll not be able to prove to them otherwise. I'm not saying religious people are delusional in the pejorative sense, however it borders this in that people are believing something that has zero basis in reality.

There is more evidence than just the book. Your calling the claims of supernatural that people make a rationalization or even kindly a delusion does not make it so. It does mean that you have drawn a conclusion without sufficient evidence. And again it is not that there is zero basis in reality just that there is rare evidence and none that is empirically proven.

In the future when trying to deride this, please word your words carefully, as you risk simply repeating statements that are circular in reasoning and serve no purpose but to increase the size of this thread. Just remember, to be right, you must have proof of existence not proof of the lack thereof. There are an infinite number of possibilities in the realm of "what does not exist" a god shaped like a loaf of bread is as possible and just as unprovable as the God of Christian literature, of course this is silly, and by silly I mean just as.

To be right all I have to do is support what I have said. I have not said that the supernatural has been proven. So I don't need to support that. I have said that people who make positive assertions that it does not are making claims they cannot support or at times are even operating on their own faith.

Reality comes in one form, that which you can prove, things that you cannot remain just that. If someone comes forth with an assertion that X = Y. He'll have his proofs. At this point someone may come along and attempt to disprove his assertion, this sometimes gives people of the religious argument the idea that you need to disprove the existence of something for it to be untrue. This attempt to maintain the proof still falls on the shoulders of the assertion, it must stand up to the disproving facts. Religion does NOT do this, it cannot, due to its lack of empiricality.

So who has said you need to disprove the existence of something for it to be untrue? The closest I have seen is not a religious argument but a matter of the scientific method. Which states that a theory cannot be proven but the null hypotheses can be disproven.

Does the maintainenance of the proof rest on the assertion? Then by all means let those who say there is no God or supernatural prove that.
Is religion lacking in empiricism? Not entirely. The existence of God can be proven empirically it just is not yet.

Is empirical proof all there is? NO! Math is 100% theory with no empirical proof. We can state the theory that based on how we define numbers that 1 + 1 = 2. we can even make observations that support it. But there is no empirical proof. The theory of math is proven sufficiently for me (deductively) and it is 100% theoretical.

so now we have at least two ways to believe things: one is empirical proof and the other is solid deductive reasoning - like math. And if empiricism is not the only way to prove things then I reject the claim that a lack of present empirical proof is meaningful. Or in other words: lack of evidence is not evidence.
 
There is no evidence of god or the supernatural.

There may be unanswered questions but inventing the supernatural as an answer is just ridiculous.
 
It better-have-been an e-mail, seeing-as-how.........​

Right. One guy says it's wrongly translated, even though there literally millions of people around the world that claim it isn't. Oh hey, guess what... there are people who claim the lunar landing in the 60s was faked too. Even academics who say it's faked. So that makes it true! There are academics in Iran, and many other places that claim the Holocaust was faked as well.

Better still, let's move to Montana, and cover our shacked with tin foil to keep out the super secret microwave transmissions from CIA spy satellites.
 
Right. One guy says it's wrongly translated, even though there literally millions of people around the world that claim it isn't.
Yeah...like those folks who need The Ten Commandments to keep them in-line.

:rolleyes:

Without God, we will live like animals!

"After listening to the debate between Bill O'Reilly and Richard Dawkins, it struck me again that the resistance to evolutionary theory largely stems from the illusion that without God there can be no morality. Some believers feel threatened by evolutionary theory not because the theory is right or wrong -- the evidence doesn't seem to matter much to them -- but because accepting it would mean accepting that we have been created by natural processes including our morality. The final part is what bothers them the most.

Perhaps it is just me, but I'd be wary of anyone whose belief system is the only thing standing between them and repulsive behavior."

jesus_rides_a_dinosaur.jpg
 
Right. One guy says it's wrongly translated, even though there literally millions of people around the world that claim it isn't. Oh hey, guess what... there are people who claim the lunar landing in the 60s was faked too. Even academics who say it's faked.
Uhhhhhhhhh....the profs at Liberty University hardly count as academics.

:rolleyes:

(....And, nobody's exactly writing-home about their graduates, either.)​
 
As opposed to the millions of people murdered by socialists who don't believe in G-d.
Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight...........


Lemme guess.....you were no History Major, right? Maybe you were home-schooled??

:rolleyes:
 
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